US Politics: Does the fat man singing count?

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

My bollocks are like a bullock's, how should I spell them?

Oh you poor man, you have my sympathy.

What was it? An industrial accident? God sees through such cheap tricks you know

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Simon Steele said:

Correct, and this is exactly why people in the progressive movement don't like him (or Klain, which Harris claims progressives were cool with). Ties to multi-billionaires, big businesses are what many progressives see as exactly the barrier to achieving anything in this country. Unchained from raising money from big money institutions, we have recently seen politicians able to actually criticize big business and capital as opposed to having their lips sealed--happily, I suspect in many politicians' cases. [...]

This is pure bullshit and either Harris is stupid, or he's a liar. It's well known that Tanden's idea "generator of progressive policy ideas" is not that. Let's look at Tanden first. She a public progressive who urged things privately to Clinton such as not fighting for the raise of th minimum wage, or telling Clinton that she should push for monetary reparations from Libya for our inconvenient bombing of their country. The money trail in terms of donations for Center for American Progress shows connections to big corporate donors, plus outward donations to neo-liberal, and sometimes, right wing foundations. For Harris, this amounts to people being upset she was hard on Bernie on Twitter. Politico and its writers are one of the biggest offenders in this dumbing down of the left's ideas and saying, "Oh, they're mad because they bitter white men." Which is interesting given Bernie's truly diverse coalition that he built, but I digress.

This demonstrates your misunderstanding much more than Harris'.  The fact is, most of the organized left, or the progressive movement, did praise Klain, and does not share your position on Tanden.  Put simply, your definition of what "most in the progressive movement" believe does not reflect the views of major "progressive" politicians or even progressive interest groups.  With Klain, yes, progressives "were cool with" him.  You are wrong about that, Harris is right.  Liz Warren called him "a superb choice" and AOC's reaction was this:

As for Tanden, she's received support from Sherrod Brown and Liz Warren - probably the two most progressive Senators not named Sanders.  Jeff Hauser is the director of the Revolving Door Project, who's purpose statement is to scrutinize "executive branch appointees to ensure they use their office to serve the broad public interest, rather than to entrench corporate power or seek personal advancement."  Surely he would agree with your objection to Tanden due to her "ties" with corporate donors, right?  Nope. 

While he's not thrilled with the pick, he had more perspective on it than your apparent litmus test that Tanden should be disqualified.  Specifically, he thinks  she's a hell of a lot better than deficit hawks like Bruce Reed:  "This is not close. Tanden has a greater clarity about the deficit of any Dem OMB Director IN MY LIFETIME. Bruce Reed was of a founding generation of operatives focused on diminishing the influence of civil rights groups & labor in Dem party."  The director of Justice Democrats, a group founded by veterans of Sanders' 2016 campaign, echoed these sentiments:

Quote

"Neera Tanden is not a pick progressives would have chosen, but she's better than (former Biden chief of staff) Bruce Reed," Alexandra Rojas, executive director of Justice Democrats, said in a statement. "Tanden's on the record over the past several years pushing back against nonsensical worries about the deficit."

This reaction speaks exactly to Harris' point, which you don't seem to get.  The organized left is so vociferously against the likes of Reed and Emanuel not so much because of their policy preferences, or even "corporate ties," but because of a fundamental disagreement on political strategy.  (However, I do agree with you that the opposition to Emanuel also obviously has to do with McDonald's murder.  Harris' complete omission of that is absurd and frankly offensive.)  As Harris says:

Quote

The most important debate in the Democratic Party right now isn’t between centrists and the left on fundamental policy aims but on how to present those aims to the public and then achieve them. Both the centrists who want a robust expansion of government and those on the left who want to go even further have the same problem: Insufficient legislative power to do more than modestly advance the goals of either wing. One side, the side of AOC and her allies on the left, believe the answer to this problem is a more creative politics of mobilization—putting forth a bolder agenda and defiantly drawing lines in a way that excites people who should naturally vote Democratic but often don’t vote at all because the stakes have not been framed sharply enough. The other side believes the answer is a more creative politics of persuasion—simultaneously engaging and reassuring voters who are skeptical of undiluted progressivism but can be coaxed into backing Democrats through more pragmatic appeals.

Rahm Emanuel and Bruce Reed are standard-bearers of the latter side that has dominated the "Dem establishment" since the Clinton years.  And one of the biggest problems with that strategy that rankles leftists - and myself honestly - is accepting the GOP's ridiculous premise that attending to the deficit should be a priority (but shockingly only a priority when a Democrat is in the White House).  Hence the intense opposition to Reed at OMB.

Overall, Harris' point, that you quoted, is that AOC and her allies are right to push the Biden administration.  But in doing so, it is not productive to attack any and all Biden nominees that don't perfectly fit some standard that is basically impossible for any qualified candidates to satisfy.  And indeed, broadly, the organized left is happy with many of Biden's choices.  Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush "celebrated" the Kerry and Yellen picks.  The Sunrise Movement is "happy" with the Kerry pick, but also wants a domestic equivalent on climate change.  Their preferences?  Jay Inslee or John Podesta - Neera Tanden's former boss at the dastardly CAP. 

In general, there's been near-universal praise among progressive groups and officeholders for Biden's picks of Kerry, Yellen, Alejandro Mayorkas, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, and Cecilia Rouse.  Even Faiz Shakir described Tony Blinken as a "solid choice."  The progressive movement, at the elite level, are behaving like adults - understanding that pushing the Biden administration left is a process that includes working with the administration.  The "progressive" movement that rigidly opposes any of Biden's picks that show past relationships with the corporate world have largely been relegated to their proper place of being mad on the internet.  This is the stupid left Harris is referring to.

[The Anti-Targ]

I just read there was a second recount of the Georgia votes. This is becoming ridiculous. The Georgia SoS seems to becoming highly exasperated with Trump personally and not just the Trump campaign as a whole. I wonder if he would still call himself a Trump supporter. The article I read said he's a Trump supporter, but that may only be true up to perhaps the end of the first recount. He might be experiencing a bit of buyer's remorse about now.

[Maithanet]

32 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I just read there was a second recount of the Georgia votes. This is becoming ridiculous. 

The first recount was hand done and a very big undertaking.  That was ordered by the Georgia SoS in an effort to install confidence in the result.  The second recount was just a machine rescanning of the ballots, that was requested by the Trump campaign.  After the first recount, the second was obviously unnecessary, but it was pretty obvious early on that the Trump campaign would request thier own recount.

[Isabel]

Question for the people here. In a chat a conservative facebook friend said:

"Interesting discussion at the Georgia Senate Committee Hearing. Trump’s legal team showed security footage that appears to show people continuing to count ballots after poll watchers were told to leave and come back next morning. The footage shows suitcases brought out and new ballots counted after the watchers leave."

Anyone knows what this was about?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

This demonstrates your misunderstanding much more than Harris'.  The fact is, most of the organized left, or the progressive movement, did praise Klain, and does not share your position on Tanden.  Put simply, your definition of what "most in the progressive movement" believe does not reflect the views of major "progressive" politicians or even progressive interest groups.  With Klain, yes, progressives "were cool with" him.  You are wrong about that, Harris is right.  Liz Warren called him "a superb choice" and AOC's reaction was this:

As for Tanden, she's received support from Sherrod Brown and Liz Warren - probably the two most progressive Senators not named Sanders.  Jeff Hauser is the director of the Revolving Door Project, who's purpose statement is to scrutinize "executive branch appointees to ensure they use their office to serve the broad public interest, rather than to entrench corporate power or seek personal advancement."  Surely he would agree with your objection to Tanden due to her "ties" with corporate donors, right?  Nope. 

While he's not thrilled with the pick, he had more perspective on it than your apparent litmus test that Tanden should be disqualified.  Specifically, he thinks  she's a hell of a lot better than deficit hawks like Bruce Reed:  "This is not close. Tanden has a greater clarity about the deficit of any Dem OMB Director IN MY LIFETIME. Bruce Reed was of a founding generation of operatives focused on diminishing the influence of civil rights groups & labor in Dem party."  The director of Justice Democrats, a group founded by veterans of Sanders' 2016 campaign, echoed these sentiments:

This reaction speaks exactly to Harris' point, which you don't seem to get.  The organized left is so vociferously against the likes of Reed and Emanuel not so much because of their policy preferences, or even "corporate ties," but because of a fundamental disagreement on political strategy.  (However, I do agree with you that the opposition to Emanuel also obviously has to do with McDonald's murder.  Harris' complete omission of that is absurd and frankly offensive.)  As Harris says:

Rahm Emanuel and Bruce Reed are standard-bearers of the latter side that has dominated the "Dem establishment" since the Clinton years.  And one of the biggest problems with that strategy that rankles leftists - and myself honestly - is accepting the GOP's ridiculous premise that attending to the deficit should be a priority (but shockingly only a priority when a Democrat is in the White House).  Hence the intense opposition to Reed at OMB.

Overall, Harris' point, that you quoted, is that AOC and her allies are right to push the Biden administration.  But in doing so, it is not productive to attack any and all Biden nominees that don't perfectly fit some standard that is basically impossible for any qualified candidates to satisfy.  And indeed, broadly, the organized left is happy with many of Biden's choices.  Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush "celebrated" the Kerry and Yellen picks.  The Sunrise Movement is "happy" with the Kerry pick, but also wants a domestic equivalent on climate change.  Their preferences?  Jay Inslee or John Podesta - Neera Tanden's former boss at the dastardly CAP. 

In general, there's been near-universal praise among progressive groups and officeholders for Biden's picks of Kerry, Yellen, Alejandro Mayorkas, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, and Cecilia Rouse.  Even Faiz Shakir described Tony Blinken as a "solid choice."  The progressive movement, at the elite level, are behaving like adults - understanding that pushing the Biden administration left is a process that includes working with the administration.  The "progressive" movement that rigidly opposes any of Biden's picks that show past relationships with the corporate world have largely been relegated to their proper place of being mad on the internet.  This is the stupid left Harris is referring to.

You named four people who like Tanden. The vast majority, as noted in your article, do not. And there is one standard: don't put people with big money ties into your cabinet. If you can't do that, then that means the problem is so widespread it literally is time to tear it down.

And there just isn't near universal praise of Biden's picks. This, would tell me, you're confused about what progressives are, who they are, and that there's more than 12.

The stupid left really exists in the stupid neoliberal imagination. But, hey, whatever it takes to keep raking in the dough. Maybe we will too someday, am I right?

Oh, and where did I use the words "Tanden should be disqualified?" 

[The Anti-Targ]

 

35 minutes ago, Isabel said:

Question for the people here. In a chat a conservative facebook friend said:

"Interesting discussion at the Georgia Senate Committee Hearing. Trump’s legal team showed security footage that appears to show people continuing to count ballots after poll watchers were told to leave and come back next morning. The footage shows suitcases brought out and new ballots counted after the watchers leave."

Anyone knows what this was about?

Seems like if this was verified video footage it would be everywhere in the media, since for all the claims of fraud throughout the country there has not ben one bit of hard evidence. And if this was hard evidence it would not be being kept within the confines of a state senate hearing.

So I'm going to say probably fake news.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Simon Steele said:

You named four people who like Tanden. The vast majority, as noted in your article, do not. And there is one standard: don't put people with big money ties into your cabinet. If you can't do that, then that means the problem is so widespread it literally is time to tear it down.

"As noted in my article"?  Not sure what that means, but what I noted was even those that aren't exactly supportive of Tanden - like Hauser and Rojas - are not actually opposed to Tanden's appointment.  In other words, they literally are against your standard - if you think Tanden violates it (which seems to clearly be the case).

6 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

And there just isn't near universal praise of Biden's picks. This, would tell me, you're confused about what progressives are, who they are, and that there's more than 12.

It's you that's confused about what and who progressives actually are, at least at the elite level and in regards to their reaction to Biden's staffing choices thus far.  I cited two key progressive interest groups, a bunch of progressive elected leaders, and the Revolving Door Project - which is literally the main progressive group that evaluates executive branch employees based on your stated concern of big money ties.  Who exactly have you cited?

[Fragile Bird]

46 minutes ago, Isabel said:

Question for the people here. In a chat a conservative facebook friend said:

"Interesting discussion at the Georgia Senate Committee Hearing. Trump’s legal team showed security footage that appears to show people continuing to count ballots after poll watchers were told to leave and come back next morning. The footage shows suitcases brought out and new ballots counted after the watchers leave."

Anyone knows what this was about?

 

8 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

Seems like if this was verified video footage it would be everywhere in the media, since for all the claims of fraud throughout the country there has not ben one bit of hard evidence. And if this was hard evidence it would not be being kept within the confines of a state senate hearing.

So I'm going to say probably fake news.

A quick search reveals that the video was taken during the machine recount. An employee of Dominion Voting, the voting machine company, is walking from machine to machine downloading the count from each machine to the laptop he’s carrying, part of the recount process.
 

This is part of the machine recount, which took place after the hand recount. The county where the video was taken was identified and it turns out the machine recount was exactly the same as the hand recount, so no, the technician was not altering votes on the machines.

The Dominion employee was outed by Trump supporters and has faced repeated death threats. This is one of the cases that drew the wrath of Georgia state officials.

If you search “Georgia Senate shown video of election fraud” numerous stories come up. 

 

[Jaxom 1974]

37 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

It's you that's confused about what and who progressives actually are, at least at the elite level and in regards to their reaction to Biden's staffing choices thus far.  

BERNIE OR GTFO!  WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GET THAT!!!!!

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

27 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

A quick search reveals that the video was taken during the machine recount. An employee of Dominion Voting, the voting machine company, is walking from machine to machine downloading the count from each machine to the laptop he’s carrying, part of the recount process.
 

This is part of the machine recount, which took place after the hand recount. The county where the video was taken was identified and it turns out the machine recount was exactly the same as the hand recount, so no, the technician was not altering votes on the machines.

The Dominion employee was outed by Trump supporters and has faced repeated death threats. This is one of the cases that drew the wrath of Georgia state officials.

If you search “Georgia Senate shown video of election fraud” numerous stories come up. 

 

You're clearly a part of the deep state.

[Fragile Bird]

I see the most recent WH scuttlebutt is that Jared Kushner’s father is on the list to receive a pardon.

[Myshkin]

5 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

BERNIE OR GTFO!  WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GET THAT!!!!!

I’ve never heard of this Jamox person before, and my gut is telling me he’s probably a degenerate reprobate, but I feel like he may have (no doubt accidentally) hit the nail on the head here.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

I’ve never heard of this Jamox person before, and my gut is telling me he’s probably a degenerate reprobate, but I feel like he may have (no doubt accidentally) hit the nail on the head here.

A Dodgers fan agreeing with a Cubs fan? The end times are near...

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

BERNIE OR GTFO!  WHY CAN'T YOU JUST GET THAT!!!!!

It's a HUGE slap in the face to ALL progressives that Biden did not nominate Bernie Sanders as Secretary of STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS!*

 

 

*STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS is of course the acronym for State, Treasury, Defense, Justice, Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health & Human Services, Housing & Urban Development, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

It's a HUGE slap in the face to ALL progressives that Biden did not nominate Bernie Sanders as Secretary of STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS!*

 

 

*STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS is of course the acronym for State, Treasury, Defense, Justice, Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health & Human Services, Housing & Urban Development, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

Well if Biden isn't nominating Bernie to be President, which is what he should be doing, then what you suggest is obviously the next best thing...

[Myshkin]

21 minutes ago, DMC said:

It's a HUGE slap in the face to ALL progressives that Biden did not nominate Bernie Sanders as Secretary of STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS!*

 

 

*STDJIACLHHSHUDTEEVAHS is of course the acronym for State, Treasury, Defense, Justice, Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health & Human Services, Housing & Urban Development, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security.

Fuck man, give him a break. He probably just forgot. He is senile after all.

[DMC]

Heh.  I don't think I've ever really thought about the fact that the top three departments in the Cabinet, in order, are STD.  My inner-ten-year-old is laughing his ass off.

1 minute ago, Myshkin said:

Fuck man, give him a break. He probably just forgot. He is senile after all.

I'm confused.  Do you mean Biden forgot to nominate Sanders or Sanders forgot to accept?  Or both?

[Myshkin]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm confused.  Do you mean Biden forgot to nominate Sanders or Sanders forgot to accept?  Or both?

Well originally I meant Biden forgot to nominate Sanders, but now I’m changing my answer to both. 

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

 

A quick search reveals that the video was taken during the machine recount. An employee of Dominion Voting, the voting machine company, is walking from machine to machine downloading the count from each machine to the laptop he’s carrying, part of the recount process.
 

This is part of the machine recount, which took place after the hand recount. The county where the video was taken was identified and it turns out the machine recount was exactly the same as the hand recount, so no, the technician was not altering votes on the machines.

The Dominion employee was outed by Trump supporters and has faced repeated death threats. This is one of the cases that drew the wrath of Georgia state officials.

If you search “Georgia Senate shown video of election fraud” numerous stories come up. 

 

So in other words, not probably fake news, but actual fake news.