Cersei and her relationship with tywin

[Catherine_taylor246]

Cersei  had an abusive relationship with Tywin. He humiliated her and disparaged her. With this, she began to feel repulsed of him, but she admired him. Does anyone else agree with me? That Cersei was psychologically abused by Tywin

[HTN02]

all 3 were abused by tywin i think. even Jamie.

if he would not been so careless about his children, he would have noticed the Cercei/Jamie thingy, and could have prevented the predicament his house is in...

[Bernie Mac]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:59 PM, Catherine_taylor246 said:

Cersei  had an abusive relationship with Tywin. He humiliated her and disparaged her.

Wait, what?

Can we have some evidence of this?

How did he treat her? How was a Medieval Lord supposed to treat his daughter?

On 12/1/2020 at 10:59 PM, Catherine_taylor246 said:

 

With this, she began to feel repulsed of him,

Can you provide evidence of this?

On 12/1/2020 at 10:59 PM, Catherine_taylor246 said:

 

but she admired him. Does anyone else agree with me? That Cersei was psychologically abused by Tywin

Obviously people will agree with you. This is a fandom who have convinced themselves that Cat was an abusive mother to someone who was not even her child.

 

13 hours ago, HTN02 said:

all 3 were abused by tywin i think. even Jamie.

Only Tyrion was. And even that is hugely exaggerated in the fandom as they seem to portray Tyrion as being constantly abused.

13 hours ago, HTN02 said:

if he would not been so careless about his children, he would have noticed the Cercei/Jamie thingy,

How? He resides in the Westerlands. How is he supposed to pick up on his twin children cuckolding the King under his very nose?

Are father's supposed to pick up on these things?

13 hours ago, HTN02 said:

and could have prevented the predicament his house is in...

Sure.

[HTN02]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:48 PM, Bernie Mac said:

How? He resides in the Westerlands. How is he supposed to pick up on his twin children cuckolding the King under his very nose?

Are father's supposed to pick up on these things?

Didnt that thingy between them start long before they moved to kings landing? when they where still living at Casterly Rock?

[Bernie Mac]

44 minutes ago, HTN02 said:

Didnt that thingy between them start long before they moved to kings landing? when they where still living at Casterly Rock?

They were children and their mother was uncomfortable with how close they were and may have had suspicions of what they may experiment with each other the older they got. She had them move rooms. At the age of eleven Jaime was sent to Crakehall as Lord Sumner's squire. Cersei would be almost a thousand miles away in Kings Landing with her father. They were not living under the same roof, let alone the same region for their adolescence. So the time they had together during those early years of sexual awakening would have been few.

At 15 Jaime became a Kingsguard to become close to Cersei, but Tywin quit over this act and he and Cersei returned to Casterly Rock. A few years later Cersei would be married to Robert and Cersie and Jaime reunited in Kings Landing while Tywin was in the Westerlands.

 

Most father's of children, especially children 11 and under, are not looking for signs of sexual chemistry between the two. Him not noticing is hardly a sign that he dropped the ball. Her own husband has not realized in 15 years of marriage. Even if he had noticed when Joanna did, it would be weird to expect what they did at that age would mean a lifelong sexual relationship.

[Donjearys]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:48 PM, Bernie Mac said:

Only Tyrion was. And even that is hugely exaggerated in the fandom as they seem to portray Tyrion as being constantly abused.

I think people might consider Tywin beating Jaime over his dyslexia as abuse in nowadays standards. That remains show-canon and there was no mention ever of this in the books. So yes, we have no hint towards Tywin abusing anyone else other than Tyrion.

Cersei grew to be a bitter and deeply misogynistic person. Maybe Tywin had something to do with this, given his clear favoring of Jaime (and how could he not). She couldn't understand how much differently they were treated while them being so alike. In her mind, she was entitled to everything he was able to do/had access to (we see an instance of her sense of entitlement in the encounter with Maggy). Her mother's death might also be a reason. She may have been closer to her than Tywin, and her death might not have drew them closer.

Tywin surely was an abusive father with Tyrion and for a reason according to him, since in his mind he is the cause of his lover's demise (or maybe worse if he really is the rape-child of Joanna and Aerys). He also had too much responsibilities and since an early age that he tended to neglect his family, which might explain how he might have missed the early sign of an unhealthy relationship his twins were developping.

All in all, there are too many assumptions when one would say Tywin abused Cersei, given the complexity of her character.

[saltedmalted]

Had Tywin been younger Cersei would have tried to fuck him too. Shown him the wonders of familial love.

 

[Nathan Stark]

I don't disagree. Tywin was at best emotionally absent with his two eldest, and at worst outright neglectful. He told a 9 or 10 year old Jaime that love was useless. Great. #1 dad of the year there, Tywin. He didn't physically abuse Cersei and Jaime, and arguably didn't physically abuse Tyrion either. But it's hard to say that Cersei and Tyrion made it out of their childhoods as functional adults. Tragically, they despise each other, when in reality they have much in common.

[Springwatch]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:48 AM, Bernie Mac said:

Wait, what?

Can we have some evidence of this?

This, at Tywin's deathbed:

Quote

That half smile made Lord Tywin seem less fearful, somehow. That, and the fact that his eyes were closed. Her father's eyes had always been unsettling; pale green, almost luminous, flecked with gold. His eyes could see inside you, could see how weak and worthless and ugly you were down deep. When he looked at you, you knew.

[AFFC - CERSEI II]

[LHakaLH]

I feel like Cersei's feelings for Tywin were love, hate, admiration, fear, respect, resentment all in one

[Righteous Indecision]

 

On 3/5/2021 at 3:53 AM, Donjearys said:

I think people might consider Tywin beating Jaime over his dyslexia as abuse in nowadays standards. That remains show-canon and there was no mention ever of this in the books. So yes, we have no hint towards Tywin abusing anyone else other than Tyrion.

I distinctly remember Jaime remembering how Tywin diligently helped him overcome his reading difficulties. That's the work of a parent. Perhaps it's one of the few really warm things about Tywin, but there it is.

As for Cersei... she's regarded as overestimating her own abilities by some of her contemporaries. I can't remember if it was Varys or Littlefinger, but I'm inclined to think the former. Basically he/they said that her attractive femininity was her biggest asset rather and her mind. From her own internal monologue she seems to have believed the opposite: her femininity was the only thing holding her back.

Unfortunately for Cersei, she doesn't appear to be as clever as Olenna Tyrell. Not stupid, but not particularly exceptional. So Cersei's resentment of her father, from reading, does look more like a conceit. I do think she went through life looking down on others. Refusing to acknowledge Tyrion's abilities even as she seemed threatened by them (and his position as hand of the King) seems consistent.

But worst of all, Cersei definitely inherited her father's desire/need to dominate and to control. People with such needs aren't likely to feel good about themselves unless they have their worth externally validated through domination, they are - in a sense - weak. I don't think trauma serves as a cause, as plenty of people in worse situations have not manifested domineering tendencies, while people in good situations still do. Tyrion was treated worse than her. Danny, likewise (though I'm aware she may get nastier... not a huge TV fan). John Snow had it worse in some ways than Cersei too.

With that domineering need, Cersei's exercise of power was therefore always personal, rather than professional. That acute need had to be sated regularly, and because it was strong she sometimes satisfied it to the detriment of her own interests (never mind the interests of others). So no, I don't think Tywin traumatised Cersei as we would commonly accept it. She just felt horrible when meeting someone she couldn't control. And with Tywin, she never felt close to doing that.

[Kolx]

According to some people Tywin is some saint that was the best father of Westeros.  Tyrion and Cersei hating him? Foreshadowing of them actually being bastards, probably mad targaryen!

[Bernie Mac]

14 hours ago, Kolx said:

According to some people Tywin is some saint that was the best father of Westeros.  Tyrion and Cersei hating him? Foreshadowing of them actually being bastards, probably mad targaryen!

Can you point to a single person on this forum who has said he was a saint or the best father in Westeros?

 

And Cersei does not hate him. Not only do you have issues reading peoples replies on this board, but seems you struggle to comprehend what is written in the books.

[Bernie Mac]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:25 PM, Springwatch said:

This, at Tywin's deathbed:

How is that evidence?

[Springwatch]

4 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

How is that evidence?

It's not natural for a child to fear her father. Tywin acted in a way that made him fearful to her (and this fits with everything else we know about him, from Tyrion's testimony about his miserable childhood, and again in Tywin's handling of Joffrey - intimidation, to be followed by a 'sharp lesson').

Tywin is emotionally abusive, you can't deny it.