The Flight From Dragonstone

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 12/7/2020 at 1:07 AM, TsarGrey said:

The meaning of the tree may well be symbolic, rather than a hint of a geographical location.

It is known.

[Son of Man]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:06 AM, Pontius Pilate said:

Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men took their king, Viserys Targaryen and his sister, Princess Daenerys, from Dragonstone before the arrival of Stannis Baratheon.  The loyal men saved the royal children from certain death.  We know a lot about Ser Willem but nothing about the four loyal men.  I made a list of my own questions about them and the other servants who may have been on Dragonstone at that time. 

1. What became of the four?  From which houses were they from?  Are any of them still alive? 
2. Who delivered Daenerys Targaryen?  Was it Archmaester Marwyn?  He said he cannot be trusted by the Citadel.  Was it because he helped the royal children escape?
3. How much gold were they able to take?  Why didn't Aerys send more gold with Queen Rhaella?  I would have sent a boatload. 
4. The likelihood of a copy of "Signs and Portents" still hidden on the island.
5. Why Braavos?  Willem would not randomly choose a destination.  I would hazard a guess and say he may have arranged it all in advance with the Sealord of Braavos.  What does the Sealord owe House Targaryen? 

This adds to Marwyn's mystery and charisma.  I am among those who believe Marwyn is Martin within the pages of the books.  He is the one who knows all.  It is fitting for him to have been the one to deliver baby Daenerys. 

[a black swan]

7 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I disagree here about Lyanna. Nobody in the series (Arya included) is more like Lyanna than Dany. From being a natural horseman (with a Stark colored horse no less) to loving flowers and wearing them in her hair. She actively fulfils the prophesy of the child of ice and fire and waking dragons from stone, it all fits too well.

The reach here is just incredible.

You make a bold claim and the list all of TWO things that also apply to Arya. What point were you trying to make? 

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“You ride like a northman, milady,” Harwin said when he’d drawn them to a halt. “Your aunt was much the same. Lady Lyanna. But my father was master of horse, remember.” (Arya, A Storm of Swords)

 

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It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. (Arya, A Game of Thrones)

Arya loves flowers, spends hours picking and discovering new ones. Ned talks about bringing flowers to Lyanna and a few chapters later we see Arya bringing Ned flowers affectionately. 

The fact that both Lyanna/Arya look and talk similar is non-factor to you? Or that both girls are wilful, love swords, and both value people for who they are and step up when they see an injustice. i.e Arya/Mycah or Arya/Gendry or Arya/Jaqen & co at the holdfast, Arya/Weasal or Arya/Condemned Northmen in cages or Arya/Samwell and Lyanna/Howland.

 

[Texas Hold Em]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:06 AM, Pontius Pilate said:

Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men took their king, Viserys Targaryen and his sister, Princess Daenerys, from Dragonstone before the arrival of Stannis Baratheon.  The loyal men saved the royal children from certain death.  We know a lot about Ser Willem but nothing about the four loyal men.  I made a list of my own questions about them and the other servants who may have been on Dragonstone at that time. 

1. What became of the four?  From which houses were they from?  Are any of them still alive? 
2. Who delivered Daenerys Targaryen?  Was it Archmaester Marwyn?  He said he cannot be trusted by the Citadel.  Was it because he helped the royal children escape?
3. How much gold were they able to take?  Why didn't Aerys send more gold with Queen Rhaella?  I would have sent a boatload. 
4. The likelihood of a copy of "Signs and Portents" still hidden on the island.
5. Why Braavos?  Willem would not randomly choose a destination.  I would hazard a guess and say he may have arranged it all in advance with the Sealord of Braavos.  What does the Sealord owe House Targaryen? 

Maybe the Sealord made an offer ahead of time.  Willem Darry was carrying the most precious cargo in the world.  The two heirs to the kingdom.  He would pick a destination which he knew would be safe.  An interesting development could reveal that Willem Darry read "Signs and Portents" and concluded that Rhaegar was not the promised prince.  He gave up his position and his home to take these children to safety because one of them will become the Prince Who Was Promised, Azor Ahai. 

[Mourning Star]

15 hours ago, a black swan said:

The reach here is just incredible.

You make a bold claim and the list all of TWO things that also apply to Arya. What point were you trying to make? 

Arya was taught how to ride, and rides well, no doubt, but the way they (Dany and Lyanna) are described, as half human half horse sharing a mind, like a centaur, is worthy of note.

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Brandon was fostered at Barrowton with old Lord Dustin, the father of the one I'd later wed, but he spent most of his time riding the Rills. He loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two.

A Dance with Dragons - The Turncloak

 

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The horse seemed to know her moods, as if they shared a single mind.

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

The point isn't that Arya isn't related to Lyanna, she is, we know she is, it's that the qualities we see reflected also appear with Dany, even more strongly.

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Arya loves flowers, spends hours picking and discovering new ones. Ned talks about bringing flowers to Lyanna and a few chapters later we see Arya bringing Ned flowers affectionately. 

Arya does pick flowers, and I'm not saying that Arya isn't like Lyanna, she is, but again the comparison falls short of what we see with Dany. 

Dany receives the flowers, and the image of a girl in a white/grey with flowers in her hair screams Lyanna.

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Starlight and seafoam, Dany thought, a wisp of silk that leaves my left breast bare for Daario's delight. Oh, and flowers for my hair. When first they met, the captain brought her flowers every day, all the way from Yunkai to Meereen. "Bring the grey linen gown with the pearls on the bodice. Oh, and my white lion's pelt." She always felt safer wrapped in Drogo's lionskin.

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV

It is literally how Theon identifies Lyanna:

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But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna.

A Clash of Kings - Theon V

Again, the point here isn't that Arya doesn't share qualities with Lyanna. 

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The fact that both Lyanna/Arya look and talk similar is non-factor to you? Or that both girls are wilful, love swords, and both value people for who they are and step up when they see an injustice. i.e Arya/Mycah or Arya/Gendry or Arya/Jaqen & co at the holdfast, Arya/Weasal or Arya/Condemned Northmen in cages or Arya/Samwell and Lyanna/Howland.

First of all, Dany has been known to act against injustice as well, breaker of chains and all...

More importantly though I think you stumbled on an important point! How they look:

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"Let me tell you something about wolves, child. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. Summer is the time for squabbles. In winter, we must protect one another, keep each other warm, share our strengths. So if you must hate, Arya, hate those who would truly do us harm. Septa Mordane is a good woman, and Sansa … Sansa is your sister. You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through both your hearts. You need her, as she needs you … and I need both of you, gods help me."

A Game of Thrones - Arya II

Obviously this quote is about Arya and Sansa, but I think it also applies to Jon and Dany.

And if we take a look at Dany's "wake the dragon" dream, we see something remarkable:

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The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

This is, I believe, an amazing connection/pun used by GRRM to call back to Dany's very first chapter:

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Somewhere beyond the sunset, across the narrow sea, lay a land of green hills and flowered plains and great rushing rivers, where towers of dark stone rose amidst magnificent blue-grey mountains, and armored knights rode to battle beneath the banners of their lords. 
A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I

Green fields/hills, smell/flowers, towers of dark stone/great stone houses, and...

The "banners of their lords" are "arms", the "arms" Dany is dreaming will keep her warm are the "arms" or sigil of house Stark, the direwolf.

Because come winter, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.

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The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

Dragons do not howl, wolves do.

There is obviously much more to take from this dream, like the red door's association both with "home" and with Westeros, but the connection to Ned's lesson about looking different but still being family is the main point here.

I would add that this sun/moon imagery appears again when Ned is in the Black Cells, and appears connected to the "blood and broken promises" of his memories of Lyanna:

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When he kept very still, his leg did not hurt so much, so he did his best to lie unmoving. For how long he could not say. There was no sun and no moon. He could not see to mark the walls. Ned closed his eyes and opened them; it made no difference. He slept and woke and slept again. He did not know which was more painful, the waking or the sleeping. When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

And finally, to tie back into the cup of ice reference:

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"You will drink," Dany said, cold as ice. "Empty the cup"

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys VI

This is fantastic because it highlights a Stark feature in Dany while at the same time it is connected to the one and only "Usurper's Knife" ever sent after Dany, and the revelation about one of the lies Viserys had told her for all these years, that they were running from (non-existent) assassins.

[Pontius Pilate]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:28 PM, Texas Hold Em said:

Maybe the Sealord made an offer ahead of time.  Willem Darry was carrying the most precious cargo in the world.  The two heirs to the kingdom.  He would pick a destination which he knew would be safe. 

Ofcourse that is the better plan.  Darry would not go blindly to anywhere. 

An interesting development could reveal that Willem Darry read "Signs and Portents" and concluded that Rhaegar was not the promised prince.  He gave up his position and his home to take these children to safety because one of them will become the Prince Who Was Promised, Azor Ahai. 

He knew Rhaegar personally.  Darry was the one who trained the prince on the art of the sword.  Rhaegar was not Azor Ahai.  His death at The Trident confirmed this to Darry. 

 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 12/8/2020 at 8:28 PM, Texas Hold Em said:

Maybe the Sealord made an offer ahead of time.  Willem Darry was carrying the most precious cargo in the world.  The two heirs to the kingdom.  He would pick a destination which he knew would be safe.  An interesting development could reveal that Willem Darry read "Signs and Portents" and concluded that Rhaegar was not the promised prince.  He gave up his position and his home to take these children to safety because one of them will become the Prince Who Was Promised, Azor Ahai. 

Willem would know from history.  Braavos is not easily intimidated.  It's a safe place because the Sealord will not give in if Robert should ask for the Targaryens back. 

[Bowen 747]

20 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Willem would know from history.  Braavos is not easily intimidated.  It's a safe place because the Sealord will not give in if Robert should ask for the Targaryens back. 

Right.  Another Sealord refused to return the dragon eggs.  The historical evidence would have been enough for Willem Darry to choose Bravos as the right safe harbor. 

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

Bravos is also the strongest of the Free Cities.  Robert and his attack dogs would not dare attack Braavosi. 

On 12/31/2020 at 11:50 PM, Bowen 747 said:

Right.  Another Sealord refused to return the dragon eggs.  The historical evidence would have been enough for Willem Darry to choose Bravos as the right safe harbor.