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Who will detonate the wildfire, and why? Please stop and let this thread die...


Alyn Oakenfist

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9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean, I know which I'd prefer. At least dragons you can fight, and you at least know if/when the ruler is a tyrant. With Bran there is no fight, no recognition, just submissiveness. No thanks!

It's time for deep thought with Heinlein:

"Love should be free and without boundaries, as long as that free love is never gay. It's okay to socially brainwash someone if it's to prevent them from being gay, guys."

- Heinlein when writing Stranger in a Strange Land, probably

This is good IMO, to start recognizing what GRRM is trying to do so we can start arguing with him, directly, instead of me lmao :P

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23 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

She can fly anywhere she wants and kill anyone she wants without an epic mind-struggle with one person at a time. 

True, but there is a level of accountability for her. If she does something tyrannical she can still be poisoned and dragons are not invincible.

If Bran does something tyrannical, odds are nobody will tell, and given his sight powers, he'd know of any threat against him.

Also, Dany is a human being at the end of the day. She can be reasoned with, you can appeal to her human side. Bran is a tree.

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2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

True, but there is a level of accountability for her. If she does something tyrannical she can still be poisoned and dragons are not invincible.

If Bran does something tyrannical, odds are nobody will tell, and given his sight powers, he'd know of any threat against him.

Also, Dany is a human being at the end of the day. She can be reason with, you can appeal to her human side. Bran is a tree.

I don't think it would be that easy. Dany is surrounded by sycophants and thousands of armed soldiers who are willing to die for her, Bran doesn't have that. The greensight isn't always helpful either. It's murky. Jojen doesn't say "Theon is coming to murder your household" it's "the sea was lapping all around Winterfell." 

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3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

True, but there is a level of accountability for her. If she does something tyrannical she can still be poisoned and dragons are not invincible.

If Bran does something tyrannical, odds are nobody will tell, and given his sight powers, he'd know of any threat against him.

Also, Dany is a human being at the end of the day. She can be reason with, you can appeal to her human side. Bran is a tree.

Dany can be shot out of the sky by a man armed with a cross-bow, or manning a ballista.  It would be a lucky shot, but if you have thousands of crossbow men, or dozens of ballistae, the odds aren’t too bad.  

Even her confrontation with the  Dothraki at the end of ADWD is a Mexican stand-off.  She can kill them, and they can kill her.

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9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I don't think it would be that easy. Dany is surrounded by sycophants and thousands of armed soldiers who are willing to die for her, Bran doesn't have that. The greensight isn't always helpful either. It's murky. Jojen doesn't say "Theon is coming to murder your household" it's "the sea was lapping all around Winterfell." 

Also, I'd like to argue, in between Dany, and whatever the fuck Brynden is right now, I most definitely prefer Dany. Even when he wasn't a tree, Brynden was cold, ruthless, devoid of empathy and capable of incredibly cruel things. Dany, on the hand is a genuinely compassionate ruler who wants the best for her people, even if she does make mistakes and sometimes lets her temper get the better of her.

Between her and The Three Eye raven who is actually three small children standing atop each other, one eye each, long story, I most definitely prefer Dany.

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4 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Dany can be shot out of the sky by a man armed with a cross-bow, or manning a ballista.  It would be a lucky shot, but if you have thousands of crossbow men, or dozens of ballistae, the odds aren’t too bad.  

Even her confrontation with the  Dothraki at the end of ADWD is a Mexican stand-off.  She can kill them, and they can kill her.

The arrows and crossbows have to hit perfectly in the eye. I think people's aim is a bit off when a dragon is flying right at you burning your friends.

2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Also, I'd like to argue, in between Dany, and whatever the fuck Brynden is right now, I most definitely prefer Dany. Even when he wasn't a tree, Brynden was cold, ruthless, devoid of empathy and capable of incredibly cruel things. Dany, on the hand is a genuinely compassionate ruler who wants the best for her people, even if she does make mistakes and sometimes lets her temper get the better of her.

Between her and The Three Eye raven who is actually three small children standing atop each other, one eye each, long story, I most definitely prefer Dany.

That's cool, I can respect it. I just think Dany is on the road to losing her compassion and I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon. I think the corrupt heart in the House of the Undying + the warning about her heart turning to brick is foreshadowing. I'll take the kid raised by Ned Stark with the powers of a science fiction reader. Even if he is creepy - what looks foul is fair and vice versa. Oh and Bloodraven is a Targaryen who can't reign it in, just like Dany.

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9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

The arrows and crossbows have to hit perfectly in the eye. I think people's aim is a bit off when a dragon is flying right at you burning your friends.

That's cool, I can respect it. I just think Dany is on the road to losing her compassion and I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon. I think the corrupt heart in the House of the Undying + the warning about her heart turning to brick is foreshadowing. I'll take the kid raised by Ned Stark with the powers of a science fiction reader. Even if he is creepy - what looks foul is fair and vice versa. Oh and Bloodraven is a Targaryen who can't reign it in, just like Dany.

That’s the point of firing in volleys.  With thousands of shots, the odds that one will hit home are fair.  You aim for the rider.  

The effective range of a crossbow or ballista is about two hundred yards, the effective range of dragon fire, is likely less.  You’d get one free shot before the dragon’s fires reached you.  

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

That’s the point of firing in volleys.  With thousands of shots, the odds that one will hit home are fair.  You aim for the rider.  

The effective range of a crossbow or ballista is about two hundred yards, the effective range of dragon fire, is likely less.  You’d get one free shot before the dragon’s fires reached you.  

I think this is a bit pedantic.

The point should be, there are quite a few examples of Dragons being taken down, be them Meraxes, Jacaerys Velaryon's or the Dragonpit dragons, not to mention the likely post Dance Maester conspiracy.

With the tree there are no such precedents of resisting however

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

That’s the point of firing in volleys.  With thousands of shots, the odds that one will hit home are fair.  You aim for the rider.  

The effective range of a crossbow or ballista is about two hundred yards, the effective range of dragon fire, is likely less.  You’d get one free shot before the dragon’s fires reached you.  

Sounds like a good action scene. I hope it happens. 

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4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:
6 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

With the tree there are no such precedents of resisting however

Uhhh...Chopping it down? :rofl:

I mean given what we know of the Children and their magic, chopping weirwoods seems like a legit alternative, though I doubt Omnipresent God King Bran would ever allow it.

See this is another problem, sure Dany has a huge edge in the field, but Bran is near omniscient, and if Mel showed us anything is that vision powers work best at self defense. You couldn't even begin to plan Bran's death before he's on to you.

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5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Sounds like a good action scene. I hope it happens. 

I think it’s pretty much the intention of the sellswords outside Meereen (other than those about to change sides, which would probably wreck the strategy).

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8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I think this is a bit pedantic.

The point should be, there are quite a few examples of Dragons being taken down, be them Meraxes, Jacaerys Velaryon's or the Dragonpit dragons, not to mention the likely post Dance Maester conspiracy.

With the tree there are no such precedents of resisting however

Obviously, there’s Rule of Cool.

For example, armoured knights and men at arms should be able to crush the Dothraki light cavalry quite easily, but in universe, that is not so.

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19 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean given what we know of the Children and their magic, chopping weirwoods seems like a legit alternative, though I doubt Omnipresent God King Bran would ever allow it.

See this is another  problem, sure Dany has a huge edge in the field, but Bran is near omniscient, and if Mel showed us anything is that vision powers work best at self defense. You couldn't even begin to plan Bran's death before he's on to you.

He's not omniscient, he's prescient because he can learn from deep time/history. You keep giving him more powers than he has. Like I said with Jojen, his sight powers aren't a sure thing. Melisandre knew there were daggers coming for Jon but she didn't know from who.

Bran might get paranoid, but he doesn't seem the type to do that. 

Look, I think trees in fantasy will always be a sign of life and a positive. We need trees. Tolkien loved trees. Even if GRRM does portray the Northern magic as darker than Tolkien, it's not "the sinister trees, destroying humanity like nukes." 

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

For example, armoured knights and men at arms should be able to crush the Dothraki light cavalry quite easily, but in universe, that is not so.

I mean, are you sure? They never go head to head, and if they did and the Dothraki somehow won, I'd be disappointed.

Heck the only scale of comparison is Jorah vs the bloodriders, and using his armor Jorah obliterates them.

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8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean, are you sure? They never go head to head, and if they did and the Dothraki somehow won, I'd be disappointed.

Heck the only scale of comparison is Jorah vs the bloodriders, and using his armor Jorah obliterates them.

The heavy horse of Qohor got wiped out, and really, the free cities’ sell swords ought to make short work of them.  Professional cavalry, and Summer Islander bowmen combined, should be lethal.

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

The heavy horse of Qohor got wiped out, and really, the free cities’ sell swords ought to make short work of them.

I mean if medieval history showed us anything, knights and heavy cavalry are vastly different, unless you're the Mongols or the Mamluks. So it's entirely possible that similarly Essosi heavy cav is way inferior to Westerosi knights and can be defeated by Dothraki

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1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean if medieval history showed us anything, knights and heavy cavalry are vastly different, unless you're the Mongols or the Mamluks. So it's entirely possible that similarly Essosi heavy cav is way inferior to Westerosi knights and can be defeated by Dothraki

Many Westerosi knights take service with the free companies.

One in-universe explanation is perhaps the Dothraki are just too useful to crush, given the way they hunt for slaves to sell to the free cities.

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15 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

He's not omniscient, he's prescient because he can learn from deep time/history. You keep giving him more powers than he has. Like I said with Jojen, his sight powers aren't a sure thing. Melisandre knew there were daggers coming for Jon but she didn't know from who.

Bran might get paranoid, but he doesn't seem the type to do that. 

Look, I think trees in fantasy will always be a sign of life and a positive. We need trees. Tolkien loved trees. Even if GRRM does portray the Northern magic as darker thank Tolkien, it's not "the sinister trees, destroying humanity like nukes." 

Tolkien’s trees would probably flay us alive.  He loved them, but they were terrifying.

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Just now, SeanF said:

One in-universe explanation is perhaps the Dothraki are just too useful to crush, given the way they hunt for slaves to sell to the free cities.

I always wondered, what exactly sustains the Dothraki economy and slave trade. Their only real target is the Lazareen, so how on Earth can they sustain the Dothraki economy and slave trade.

And why on Earth did the Volantenese or anyone else really (the Sarnori for example) never create a Western Protectorate in the Lazareen with the purposes of starving the Dothraki out of raiding and tribute, like the OG Western Protectorate.

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