How to win WOT5K (Stannis)

[Mark O'Kane]

A very tough one but honestly doable if he did a few things differently. 

First - gather my swords and set sail asap. Arrive at Storms End and call the banners before Renly gets a chance. Tell them it's a training exercise but then when they arrive say that Robert has been probably murdered and we need to defeat the bastard Joffrey. They will all join together to get revenge for Robert, any man that doesn't agree gets thrown in the dungeons of Storm's End. Go straight for King's Landing, breaking down the doors and arrest everyone on the spot. Send the pirates to block Blackwater Bay so no one can escape judgement. Now I will enact revenge for Ned Stark by executing Joffrey with Lightbringer. Cersei executed for cuckholding the king/treason/murder, Littlefinger executed for conspiracy, Janos Slynt as he is corrupt and Stannis knows this. Pycelle remains in office. Lords Celtigar and Velaryon made Masters of Coin and Ships, with Renly retaining Master of Laws. Moving quicky enough removes the threat of Renly making a claim, and winning the Stormlands means the Tyrells won't back Renly even if he did as they won't go it alone. Melisandre would make a good Master of Whisperers, I'd say Varys would either slip away or simply be dismissed - he wasn't guilty of anything and Stannis wouldn't have grounds to execute him. I would have a Stormlander in charge of the goldcloaks - Rolland Storm is my choice. The Kingsguard are all executed or sent to the wall depending on their choice. Once Blackwater Bay is secure pay Sallador San from the royal coffers and then hang him for being a pirate, hang all the other pirates and claim their ships for the Crown. 

Tywin will be at Harrenhal. Kings Landing has fallen, he must retreat to the West. Roose Bolton lies to the North. Robb to the West, Stannis to the East. Tywin retreats to the West through the Southern Riverlands, doomed if he stays. Tywin will run back to Casterly Rock by going Southwest to prepare to defend the Westerlands, knowing he has lost King's Landing. Robb will harry his retreat with his mobile cavalry, and he will lose thousands of soldiers on the march home. Roose Bolton will move South but he will be too slow to hinder Tywin. 

Stannis will meet Roose at Harrenhal at the head of his Stormlands army and explain to Roose that Robb declared himself King which means he is a traitor. Roose is a traitor by extension and clapped in chains along with every other Northern Lord there. The 10k Stark infantry are commandeered by Stannis who marches for Riverunn. Stannis demands talks with Robb. Robb meets Stannis at Riverunn and Stannis arrests Robb and all lords present for treason, unleashing a storm of arrows to slay Greywind and anyone else who try to intervene. Bran can suceed him as Lord of Winterfell if he can come down to King's Landing within a moon's turn to personally bend the knee, otherwise he will be deemed a traitor and arrested. Robb's cavalry along with the army of the Riverlands will be encorporated into Stannis' army as he marches into the Westerlands. Stannis is able to take the Golden Tooth by sending in shadow assassins to all the castles, replenishing his stamina each time to make sure his fires don't burn too low. 

Stannis would then march to Lannisport, moving his cavalry through hidden goat paths to take any resistance unawares in the rear. If Tywin offers open battle Stannis can send a shadow assassin to kill all the commanders but I doubt Tywin will be in a position to offer a pitched battle having just retreated back from Harrenhal. Stannis will then offer Tywin single combat to prevent Lannisport from being reduced to ash but Tywin will refuse. Stannis will then send twenty good men and a shadow assassin into Casterly Rock to challenge Tywin in his bedroom to single combat with orders to spare him, defeating him before opening the gates. Tywin is delivered to Stannis who also arrests every Western Lord and brings them back to Kings Landing.

At this stage Renly reappears and rejoins the council, bringing with him a retinue of Tyrells who will help keep the peace. Davos is named as Hand of the King, and anyone who is openly against this will be defeated in single combat by Stannis and sacrificed to the Lord of Light.

Now for the punishments. As a penalty for claiming to be King, Robb has his crown nailed to his head to remind him of his mistake but has leave to claim all lands North of the Wall as his reward for his aid in supplying men to the King to help beat down Tywin. He may also choose the Wall, exile, or being decapitated. All Northern Lords must surrender 25% of their current wealth and 2 hostages each, or go to the Wall if they refuse. 

Tywin must pay for the total cost of the war, surrender 10% of his land to the Tyrells and Tullys, give all his boats to the Royal Fleet, accept blame for causing the war and surrender Fair Isle to Stannis who claims it for the Crown.  He must then execute Jaime himself before being offered to the Martells to answer for his crimes. Jaime is burned alive in his gilded armor if Tywin refuses. Casterly Rock goes to Tyrion who is then confirmed as the Warden of the West. All Western Lords must donate 50% of their current wealth and surrender 50% of their family as hostages, with one being released every 5 years. Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch are sent to Dorne with Tywin when he is picked up by the Dornish as his honour guard. 

Edmure Tully must shave his beard and be only allowed to grow it back once he no longer acts the boy. House Tully and all Riverlands houses have suffered enough but they must pay for the restoration of Harrenhal which will be the seat of Davos. The Crownlands encorporate all the land from Harrenhal to King's Landing, to increase it's personal power. Walder Frey is arrested for extortion of Robb Stark for trying to make him marry his daughter to cross a bridge. 

Balon will have attacked the North at this point, capturing Moat Cailin and Deepwood. Robb and the Northerners, enroute home will defeat Victarion at heavy costs and ask for leave to invade the Iron Islands. Stannis will say yes and if you bring them to heel he will remove Robbs Crown and let him be Lord of Winterfell once more. Robb will build a massive fleet at White Harbour, sailing around Westeros to invade the Iron Islands, linking up with Stannis and the Royal Fleet on the way. They defeat Balon once more, removing his head and giving Lordship of the Iron Islands to House Stark, Theon stays with Robb in this timeline so he is given Pyke to hold in Robbs name. Robb thanks Stannis and they part as friends, with Shireen being engaged to Bran. 

Stannis returns to King's Landing to hear of fAegon invading the Stormlands. He meets fAegon for a parley at Storms End but then has Davos, 20 good men, Melisandre and a shadow assassin sneak into the castle, defeat fAegon in single combat and Jon Connington given his lands and titles back as Stannis feels he was treated unfairly by Aerys but he also rebelled against his rightful king so he is then hanged. 

Several years later Dany lands in Dorne at the head of a massive army and 3 adult dragons. Stannis can't believe this nonsense and gets ready to roll. Dany has a khalasar of 30,000 Dothraki, 8000 Unsullied, 2000 half-trained unsullied that she also got at Astapor, the Second sons, the Windblown, the Stormcrows, a massive rabble of several thousand freed slaves and also Dorne who has declared for her. 

Dany flies to the Reach and successfully defeats the army marshalling there with her dragons in the Field of Fire 2.0, burning Randyll Tarly, Mace Tyrell and Garland Tyrell before naming the Hightowers Wardens of the South as they are the first to declare for her. The khalasar meanwhile sweep North then Northeast towards Kings Landing, burning and pillaging the Stormlands as they go to draw Stannis' men away in pursuit. The Dornish attack and besiege the Marcher Lords to further scatter the Stormlands. The Redwyne fleet is ordered by Dany to besiege Storms End while Jorah Mormont and 20 good men infiltrate the castle and defeat the Castellan before opening the gates. Stannis is livid, marshalling an army of Riverlanders, Crownlanders and Westermen (Lysa Arryn sits out which annoys Stannis). The Westermen are burned enroute to Kings Landing by Dany and they surrender, declaring for her while Edmure Tully panics and retreats. Stannis is in serious trouble as his crownlands army is crushed outside Kings landing by the Dothraki. Stannis escapes by the timely intervention of Davos who saves him on his smuggling boat and they go North with Melisandre who has a plan. Dany takes Kings Landing and prepares to invade the North. Stannis arrives at Winterfell after being utterly defeated. Melisandre says he must believe in himself and she asks Stannis to ask Robb to have Jon Snow executed so she can resurrect him. Robb is told by Stannis to trust him and he dispatches Roose Bolton, Melisandre and 20 good men to the Wall who kills Jon with a Valyrian Steel Flaying Knife that is Roose' price. Jon is quickly resurrected by Melisandre who explains his watch is at an end and to come quick before Stannis loses. Meanwhile Euron Greyjoy meets the Redwyne Fleet in open battle, wanting to claim a dragon and he uses sorcery to summon an army of Krakens who defeat the Redwyne Fleet. This distracts Dany long enough for Edmure Tully to go North with an army of 11,000 Riverlanders (3000 Horse 8000 foot) to link up with Robb who by now has marshalled an army 30,000 strong of fierce loyal Northmen. Stannis also is tasked with going North beyond the wall to treat with the Others who he offers his hand in marriage to their Queen in exchange for knowledge and power. He is granted an Ice Spear, Necromancy powers and an Ice Spider mount along with 20 Others. He arrives back just in time, Dany has crossed the Trident. 

Dany's army is massive, outnumbering the Northern-Riverland Army 5 to 1. But as the dragons descend, Jon commands them all to halt, which due to his Targaryan ancestry, they do. He then mounts Rhaegal who swiflty defeats the riderless Viserion by biting his head off. Drogon slams into Rhaegal but Stannis quickly resurrects Viserion and leaps into the fray, climbing high on the dragons back. Viserion can't see but Stannis needed only the height. He throws his Icy Spear which pierces Drogon, defeating him and saving Jon. Dany falls off but Robb steps in her way as she tries to flee, defeating her with a massive kick. The 20 Others defeat lots of Dany's army but then they are weak to the Valyrian Steel Sword of Randyll Tarly who slays all of them with Heartsbane. Stannis howls in anguish and gets revenge for Robert's Defeat at Ashford by decapitating Randyll where he stands with Lightbringer. The Dothraki are a problem but the Northmen use a shield wall to stop them dead in their tracks before they are all killed by Jon on Rhaegal. The unsullied are tearing apart the centre of Stannis' army as they won't retreat but Stannis brings all the dothraki back from the dead and they take the unsullied unawares in the rear. The Dornish see the battle is lost and try to surrender, but Stannis is not in a forgiving mood and orders all of them burned to dust by Rhaegal. Stannis then orders the Dothraki to pursue all the fleeing Reachermen. Dany is brought to Stannis in chains and he offers her a chocie - be defeated in single combat right here right now or mayhaps you can be my Queen. She chooses Queen and Stannis explains how mayhaps works and she is swiftly defeated in single combat. Rhaegal is then executed by Lightbringer as he is too powerful and a threat to Stannis and Jon is then sent to The Wall as his claim threatens Stannis. Robb is given the thanks of Stannis who has defeated all challengers. Stannis marries the Other Princess and also Melisandre who isn't pleased but he explains this is the Song of Ice and Fire and Melisandre understands now. Stannis has Selyse thrown into the sea upon his return as she is the worst and House Florent has 2000 men which is pathetic. 

 

 

 

[James Steller]

I'll give this a shot. I assume I can decide when I begin in Stannis's life.

First, I won't marry Selyse Florent. I don't remember if I had a choice in who I married, but I'm a grown man and I will not have that stupid wastrel Robert choose my bride, especially not after how he gave me Dragonstone instead of Storm's End for my troubles. I'm marrying Delena Florent instead (given her track record with producing heirs, and since I have the gift of hindsight, I'm picking her instead). Robert can try his luck seducing Selyse if he dares, but I'm betting that my marriage bed won't be soiled at my marriage to Delena.

I serve Robert dutifully as Master of Ships, keeping Delena at my side, whether I'm in King's Landing or Dragonstone, though well away from Robert if I can manage it. I tell Jon Arryn about my suspicions of Robert's children being bastards. I also pay Tobho Mott a special price to take Gendry off his hands and bring him to Dragonstone with my family as soon as I can before Varys can find out. He'll continue his apprenticeship as a blacksmith on Dragonstone instead, even as I urge Jon to give me his son before Lysa can object. Assuming that Jon still dies, I flee King's Landing and go to Dragonstone. I'll have the heir to the Vale, one of Robert's bastards, my wife, and however many kids we've got at this point, along with the Royal Fleet. I welcome Melisandre, but I keep her at arm's length, especially where my wife and kids are concerned. When Ned Stark comes south to the capital, I send one of Davos Seaworth's sons to King's Landing in secret to give a letter to Ned Stark where I explain everything to him, and urge him to work with me to save Robert. This will help Ned put the pieces together much faster than he does in the original timeline. I return to King's Landing with my fleet, as well as my summoned bannermen, and make my way into the city before the Gold Cloaks can be mustered in time to repel me (Ned will also use his authority to stand the men down and vouch for me when I arrive. I'll take charge and present Gendry alongside Ned's heritage book, and the two of us will be able to persuade Robert that his children are bastards. 

Whatever Robert does to his wife and kids or Jaime doesn't matter; he'll be alive, able to rely on his old allies against Tywin Lannister's wroth, plus the Tyrells won't want to risk their position with the Florents poised to take their place instead. If the Westerlands dares to fight us, we crush them. If Robert doesn't die in battle or otherwise, I use a shadow-baby to kill him and blame it on Tywin, only to take the Iron Throne for myself. I don't send any assassins against Daenerys, because I'll be looking north to the Others. When the Nights Watch provides proof of what's going on, I spread the word with all my power, and prepare for the true war to come. 

To paraphrase Sun Tzu, I have won the War of the Five Kings by eliminating the need to fight it. 

[Bronn Urgandy]

This OP had me rolling, bravo

[The hairy bear]

On 12/7/2020 at 10:26 PM, Mark O'Kane said:

First - gather my swords and set sail asap. Arrive at Storms End and call the banners before Renly gets a chance. Tell them it's a training exercise but then when they arrive say that Robert has been probably murdered and we need to defeat the bastard Joffrey. They will all join together to get revenge for Robert, any man that doesn't agree gets thrown in the dungeons of Storm's End.

This scenario is not realistic at all, for several reasons. First and foremost, the Storm lords do not owe any allegiance to Stannis, and never have. They are sworn to Renly. To assume that they'll follow Stannis if he calls them to their service before Renly does it's absurd. They'll just ignore him, as Stannis has not the authority to ask them anything (even attend "training exercises").

Remember that Davos went to visit the main stormlords as Stannis' envoy and many didn't even want to receive him. He later told Cressen: “It is as you warned him. They will not rise, Maester. Not for him. They do not love him.”

 

 

On 12/7/2020 at 10:26 PM, Mark O'Kane said:

Tywin will run back to Casterly Rock by going Southwest to prepare to defend the Westerlands, knowing he has lost King's Landing. Robb will harry his retreat with his mobile cavalry, and he will lose thousands of soldiers on the march home. Roose Bolton will move South but he will be too slow to hinder Tywin. 

Stannis will meet Roose at Harrenhal at the head of his Stormlands army and explain to Roose that Robb declared himself King which means he is a traitor. Roose is a traitor by extension and clapped in chains along with every other Northern Lord there. The 10k Stark infantry are commandeered by Stannis who marches for Riverunn. Stannis demands talks with Robb. Robb meets Stannis at Riverunn and Stannis arrests Robb and all lords present for treason, unleashing a storm of arrows to slay Greywind and anyone else who try to intervene.

Even if we ignore the implausibility that the stormlords follow Stannis, it's hardly possible that his army would be able to take King's Landing and defeat the Northmen, Riverlords and the West in succession. Considering the casualties and the men he should leave at King's Landing as a garrison, he just wouldn't have enough forces.

On 12/7/2020 at 10:26 PM, Mark O'Kane said:

 

Stannis is able to take the Golden Tooth by sending in shadow assassins to all the castles, replenishing his stamina each time to make sure his fires don't burn too low. 

(...)

Stannis will then send twenty good men and a shadow assassin into Casterly Rock to challenge Tywin in his bedroom to single combat with orders to spare him, defeating him before opening the gates.

(...)

He meets fAegon for a parley at Storms End but then has Davos, 20 good men, Melisandre and a shadow assassin sneak into the castle

It's also unrealistic to assume that shadow assassins can be summoned at will, or that it's just only a matter of "replenishing his stamina to make sure his fires don't burn too low". The fact that he didn't send shadow assassins to kill Joffrey or Tywin prove that there are fixed limits to the number of shadows one can make. Perhaps the "fires" never replenish, or perhaps they only work in magical environments such as Storm's End, or perhaps Melisandre can only give birth to a limited number. We don't know the details, but we can be sure that it's not just a matter of resting some time until another shadow assassin can be produced.

The "twenty good men", I assume, are just a joke.

 

On 12/8/2020 at 2:49 AM, James Steller said:

First, I won't marry Selyse Florent. I don't remember if I had a choice in who I married, but I'm a grown man and I will not have that stupid wastrel Robert choose my bride, especially not after how he gave me Dragonstone instead of Storm's End for my troubles. I'm marrying Delena Florent instead (given her track record with producing heirs, and since I have the gift of hindsight, I'm picking her instead).

I'm not sure why Delena is preferable to Selyse. A daughter of a third son would normally be a better match than a daughter of a forth son, they both would have similar looks (with the unfortunate Florent ears) and Delena proved to be unreliable when he allowed Robert to deflower her.

The reason why Selyse doesn't give Stannis a male heir is that they just don't have sex. I don't see why that would be different with Delena. In any case, the real solution would be Stannis manning up and doing his duty in bed.

 

 

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Zerg rush KL after killing Renly, offer to set Selyse aside and marry Marge, shadow assasinate Tywin

Easy peasy, lemon squezy

[Bernie Mac]

3 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

 

The reason why Selyse doesn't give Stannis a male heir is that they just don't have sex. I don't see why that would be different with Delena. In any case, the real solution would be Stannis manning up and doing his duty in bed.

 

It is crazy how Selyse gets all the blame for their loveless marriage.

But there was no explaining such things to Stannis Baratheon. Her very womanhood seemed to offend him. Men from the green lands liked their women soft and sweet in silk, she knew, not clad in mail and leather with a throwing axe in each hand. But her short acquaintance with the king at Deepwood Motte convinced her that he would have been no more fond of her in a gown. Even with Galbart Glover's wife, the pious Lady Sybelle, he had been correct and courteous but plainly uncomfortable. This southron king seemed to be one of those men to whom women are another race, as strange and unfathomable as giants and grumkins and the children of the forest. The She-Bear made him grind his teeth as well.

There was only one woman that Stannis listened to, and he had left her on the Wall.

 

Selyse has been in a miserable marriage with Stannis for over a decade. The two most common tropes in literature for women in such joyless marriages is to either become promiscuous or let themselves go. I would guess that Selyse is the latter, that 13 years ago when she married Stannis she was a much more attractive prospect than the woman the readers are introduced to via Davos and the 16-year-old Jon.

 

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

It is crazy how Selyse gets all the blame for their loveless marriage.

Here's the thing, love, even in it's purest form, requires love and attraction. Good luck doing that with a woman with a moustache.

[Trigger Warning]

I can't believe Stannis didn't think of raising another lord's men under the guise of a training exercise. 

[Bernie Mac]

2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing, love, even in it's purest form, requires love and attraction. Good luck doing that with a woman with a moustache.

Many women in happier, more fulfilling relationships remove such things. I don't know how old you are, if you have any female adult friends or been in long term relationships you may have noticed that many women wax as hirsuitism is something 1 in 14 women have. It is not abnormal. The majority of women deal with it.

Now it may be possible that Selyse has always had that, but its also possible that it came on after her first child (which is pretty common) and it is also possible that at one point she was proactive in the removal/disguise of it. Given she is trapped in a shitty marriage to a guy who is uncomfortable around women it is possible that this has led to Selyse caring less and less about her appearance.

And dude, how fucking shallow are you? Suggesting the issue Stannis has with all women is down to his wife is absurd.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

57 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

And dude, how fucking shallow are you? Suggesting the issue Stannis has with all women is down to his wife is absurd.

I'm not saying it's due to his wife, Stannis has major women problems, though granted he has people problems in general, what I am saying is that marrying him to one of the most unattractive characters in the story likely didn't help.

[frenin]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:49 AM, James Steller said:

First, I won't marry Selyse Florent. I don't remember if I had a choice in who I married, but I'm a grown man and I will not have that stupid wastrel Robert choose my bride, especially not after how he gave me Dragonstone instead of Storm's End for my troubles. I'm marrying Delena Florent instead (given her track record with producing heirs, and since I have the gift of hindsight, I'm picking her instead). Robert can try his luck seducing Selyse if he dares, but I'm betting that my marriage bed won't be soiled at my marriage to Delena.

Stannis is not the master of his fate, it matters little whether he's a grown man or whether he's a toddler. Robert is the head of the Baratheon clan, Stannis will marry whomever Robert, or his father before him, wants him to marry.

 

 

On 12/7/2020 at 10:26 PM, Mark O'Kane said:

Arrive at Storms End and call the banners before Renly gets a chance.

He can't call the banners, he doesn't own Storm's End. He can't do any of that. 

 

 

9 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

It's also unrealistic to assume that shadow assassins can be summoned at will, or that it's just only a matter of "replenishing his stamina to make sure his fires don't burn too low". The fact that he didn't send shadow assassins to kill Joffrey or Tywin prove that there are fixed limits to the number of shadows one can make. Perhaps the "fires" never replenish, or perhaps they only work in magical environments such as Storm's End, or perhaps Melisandre can only give birth to a limited number. We don't know the details, but we can be sure that it's not just a matter of resting some time until another shadow assassin can be produced.

I'd say that Melisandre needs to be close enough to the targets and she knew that would not be likely to happen with any of the other contenders bar Renly.

 

 

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing, love, even in it's purest form, requires love and attraction. Good luck doing that with a woman with a moustache.

As if Stannis was his brothers...  Stannis doesn't even try, that's certainly not Selyse's fault, But given how malleable he is around Melisandre, I do think that he thinks with his dick as much as his eldest brother does but he's unlikely to get the attention to the women he would fancy until Meli appears.

[Bronn Urgandy]

3 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

I can't believe Stannis didn't think of raising another lord's men under the guise of a training exercise. 

Right! Or sending shadow assassins AND twenty good men to duel your enemies one on one, or offering your rivals the chance to become Queen or a duel to the death except that you said “mayhaps”. There is so much good material here that I can’t believe Stannis never thought of

3 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing, love, even in it's purest form, requires love and attraction. Good luck doing that with a woman with a moustache.

Speak for yourself, my dream woman is Joan Cusack with a Hogan tash

[Arthur Peres]

If I was Stannis, I, knowing about the incest, would travel north on a ship, and try to deal with the Lannisters still in the north, far away from they base of power, with Ned by my side. After dealing with the issue of the twincest you make preparation for Tywin's reaction before allowing word to travel.

Then, after beating up Tywin, you pray that Robert gives into his dream, abidicate in Stannis's favor and go be a mercenary in Essos like he says he wanted... without the threat of Joffrey on the throne he could go die in the east with a clear conciense.

Waiting for Robert to start a war without support is foolish.

[Groo]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

If I was Stannis, I, knowing about the incest, would travel north on a ship, and try to deal with the Lannisters still in the north, far away from they base of power, with Ned by my side. After dealing with the issue of the twincest you make preparation for Tywin's reaction before allowing word to travel.

Then, after beating up Tywin, you pray that Robert gives into his dream, abidicate in Stannis's favor and go be a mercenary in Essos like he says he wanted... without the threat of Joffrey on the throne he could go die in the east with a clear conciense.

Waiting for Robert to start a war without support is foolish.

I always thought Stannis simply running off to Dragonstone after Jon Arryn's death was fundamentally a weak, short-sighted, and cowardly move. Stannis obviously isn't a coward in general but that was a lame move. He didn't even come back when we was specifically asked to come back by Robert. He just went and hid on Dragonstone.

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Groo said:

I always thought Stannis simply running off to Dragonstone after Jon Arryn's death was fundamentally a weak, short-sighted, and cowardly move. Stannis obviously isn't a coward in general but that was a lame move. He didn't even come back when we was specifically asked to come back by Robert. He just went and hid on Dragonstone.

It was neither, it was a, bad,  calculated risk.  Stannis was hoping for Robert to die without addressing the issue and so he would be his true heir by force, if not well that would mean that Ned and or Robert had figured it out and had dealt or were dealing with the Lannisters and he could always tag along later on.

I think it's bad because Stannis doesn't really do much besides that, he  steals Robert's fleet, hires mercenaries, sends Davos to talks to the stormlords and that's about it.

After Robert does not name him Hand, Stannis loses it and finally reaches  the no return point with Robert, he is not going to save him, if he dies he dies.  He's not interested in helping Robert or Ned.

 

 

 

[Arthur Peres]

7 minutes ago, frenin said:

It was neither, it was a, bad,  calculated risk.  Stannis was hoping for Robert to die without addressing the issue and so he would be his true heir by force, if not well that would mean that Ned and or Robert had figured it out and had dealt or were dealing with the Lannisters and he could always tag along later on.

 

Agree, this is one of the reasons I never bought the idea that somehow Stannis is a just man. He is one of (if not the most) self righteous characters in the books, he is very petty and he never search for moderate or deals to make things happen, always being stuborn and petty about almost everything.

9 minutes ago, frenin said:

I think it's bad because Stannis doesn't really do much besides that, he  steals Robert's fleet, hires mercenaries, sends Davos to talks to the stormlords and that's about it.

 

This is what make his attitude even more weird, his preparations are soo poorly made, no alliances, he is late to crow himself, he has no money or plan of action. This is something that the show did better because Stannis does seems to be caught by surprise about the whole incest thing,.

12 minutes ago, frenin said:

After Robert does not name him Hand, Stannis loses and finally reach the no return point with Robert, he is not going to save him, if he dies he dies.  He's not interested in helping Robert or Ned.

 

agree, and to make matters worse, even when it would suit him to take a cause like revenge for Ned to promove himself to Robb, he is very hostile to it, and goes on a petty rant with Cressen. 

[Trigger Warning]

2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

and goes on a petty rant with Cressen. 

He also goes on a petty rant about it to Ned's grieving widow. 

[TheLastWolf]

9 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Here's the thing, love, even in it's purest form, requires love and attraction. Good luck doing that with a woman with a moustache.

Don't forget the ears! 

[Thandros]

Assuming I've only got there right after Robert's death or at best a few days before.

FIrst the moment I hear of Robert's Death and Lord Stark's arrest make my claim. Send out letter declaring Joffrey a Bastard and that Lord Stark knew and that's why he was arrested and that I'm the rightful king. Control the narrative quickly before the Lannister can try and spread Traitor Stark messages to help disrupt anti Lannister forces.

Then send out messengers to spread the word. Meanwhile with my own forces gathered and prepared sail to Storm's End as quickly as possible. With good wind and a bit of luck we can get there before Renly is able to proclaim his own claim. Try to Rally the Stormlords with cries of Vengeance for Robert from cruel Lannisters. Suggest Renly is going to rally the Tyrells to your banner if anyone asks. If does still make his claim decry him as an ungrateful brother. Bemoan how you protected him during the siege and how he now scorns you. Make suggestions he's been corrupted by King's Landing and Tyrell Decadence. If the main lords stay against you appeal to the lesser lords and landed knights. Make suggestions of how a more meritocratic system that focuses on talent and ability over birth would favour them over their lordly superiors and how advancement might be possible for the best serving should their lords remain disloyal. Have men proclaims how King Stannis will bring back justice and order in the villages and end the injustices the smallfolk suffer from to win support in the villages. Speak of how Just King Stannis will bring back prosperity to a Kingdom which is lacking in it.

Now if Renly does still move against you he'll be moving earlier than in Canon and with good luck may not have brought a large cavalry force. He may only have a smaller forces mostly gathered on the way. He wouldn't have had the time to gather the large army as in canon so he may even end up outnumbered. Some smart tactics, battlefield fortifications and a bit of discipline and unless Renly has found a large army or much more caution than he had in canon a victory can be won. If he dies, publicly mourn him tell of how you wish he hadn't turned against you as he had. If he flees, spread word of his cowardice and flight. Westeros is a very warrior society and such cowardice and a lack of skill at arms will discourage his supporters and encourage defections. If he's captured, try and convince him to abandon his claim and if he won't then simply keep him a prisoner until he gives in or your position is secure enough that something else could be done with him. Hopefully that would be enough to flip the Stormlords and perhaps even some of the Reach Lords.

At this point with a bit of luck I should have the Stormlands and maybe the Reach particularly if Renly has bent the knee and Olenna and Mace think they can simply wait for my death to make Margaery Queen. Renly is technically still my heir. I may also have the North and Riverlands. By making my claim early and connecting it firmly to the arrest of Ned Stark I can encourage northern and riverlander support for me into a formal declaration for my side. As long as the Starks can contain Tywin I can move quickly on King's Landing and take it. Not without losses but as long as Tywin or the Tyrells don't intervene against me everything should work out. With a bit of luck I could make it before the Antler men get exposed or Varys will realise the Lannisters are doomed and not bother trying to help them. Either way I have the city. Tyrion and Cersei are either dead or my prisoners and Joffrey is most certainly dead. I might to find Tommen and quickly but with some luck I'll get him into my hands soon enough. Tywin then has a choice of watching his entire house burnt to the ground or a surrender on unreasonable terms. With the Kingdom nominally reunited I can have the Vale secured and with some luck receive begrudging acceptance from Dorne and the Iron Islands and then all I have to worry about are Dany and Aegon but that's a problem for later.

[Lord Lannister]

Announcing the truth about Joffrey and declaring his claim before Renly announces himself would probably be his best bet.