Time and Causality 2

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1 hour ago, LongRider said:

Happy New Year Wizz Kid!

Happy New year to you as well. And everyone else.  

1 hour ago, LongRider said:

Hmmmm, like a greenseer you say, that's quite provocative.  I haven't really thought of Gseer magic as naturalistic magic, but yeah, that fits and could fit the Others as well.

For sure. Osha tells us the greenseers can use the wind, CotF using water magic, the trees of course. I like the quote about the true tongue, it nicely encapsulates the naturalistic elements and what the greenseer magic is all about I think.....

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Maester Childer's Winter's Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here. But it seems clear that their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day.

TWOIAF

They are at one with nature and everything in it. The real clincher is the true tongue sounding like the wind through leaves. We know that's the old gods signature in the text and we see Bran do it. That is Bran speaking the true tongue. Once he masters his gift he should be able to manipulate nature as the CotF and greenseers do. 

@ravenous reader has pointed out that Brandon learning to speak the language of the CotF is exactly what our Bran is doing. Its highly likely Brandon the Builder was learning how to be a greenseer. The tale isn't worth telling because we are already reading it.  

1 hour ago, LongRider said:

What caught my attention here is that it plops from a sentinel tree.  Interestingly, these trees are found in the WF godswood and stand guard in front of the cave mouth where Bran finds the CotF and BR.   In the Ghost of Winterfell chapter, Theon notes that the sentinel trees in the Godswood "tall soldiers shrouded in cloaks of gloom."  Lastly, Ghost tries to climb the sentinel tree during Theon's attack on WF.   My point here, is the sentinel trees are mentioned many times and sometimes find ways that seem to help the Starks or people associated with the Starks, like Sam.

Also, the ravens flew away from the Fist and weren't mentioned for the rest of Sam's chapter.  Could then, the sentinel trees been on watch for Sam, carrier of dragonglass?

Exactly. I agree, all the trees are a tool the greenseers can utilise, especially the soldiers and sentinels. They are sometimes described as armoured and weaponized. Its like they are the army of the greenseers, watching and ready to spring into action when required. 

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This was a wood of stubborn sentinel trees armorer in grey-green needles. (Cat)

The trees stood beneath him, warriors armored in bark and leaf, deployed in their silent ranks awaiting the command to storm the hill.  (Jon)

The old gods/greenseer lore seems to be based on Celtic and Norse myth, which makes perfect sense as they were naturalistic religions themselves.  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

I think this quote from Littlefinger applies to the actions of the Greenseers (and the Others if they are not one and the same):

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“Why should I wish him dead?” Littlefinger shrugged. “I had no motive. Besides, I am a thousand leagues away in the Vale. Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game.”

What... what game?

The only game. The game of thrones

Nice. Certainly helps the greenseers are hidden. They are basically ghosts with the ultimate camouflage. 

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

So I like to watch for all the moves that were needed to get Bran safely and secretly from his stone prison in Winterfell to his weirwood throne beyond The Wall

Same. There is so much going on. Whether it be subtle language hidden in George's prose or straight out skinchanger/greenseer activity. I particularly like the journey with Coldhands, the elk and all those ravens whispering the true tongue into Coldhands ears. Bran is my favourite POV, I've spent many hours pouring over his chapters.  

[Seams]

10 hours ago, Tucu said:

Goldencups: maybe a reference to the Solandra family of flowers like the Solandra Grandiflora that can be hallucinogenic in small doses and fatal in high doses

This could be an allusion to the silver wolf's head cup from which Bran drank at the Harvest Feast at Winterfell (before symbolically dying) and the special groom's gift chalice from which Joffrey drank at his wedding feast. Chett wanted Bessa to have a special cup (before she died).

[LongRider]

VOICES OF THE WIND:

GRRM describes the wind in a myriad of ways and in this essay I explore his use of skirling and skirl as a descriptor.

So what is a skirling wind?  For that matter, what is a skirl?  Definition of skirl is: skirl:  (of bagpipes) make a shrill, wailing sound, also described as a shriek or shrieking.   Bagpipes are found worldwide and were originally the air bag was made of animal skins.

Skirling winds:

Skirling winds are heard by Jon Snow, Catelyn Stark, and Tyrion.  Jon hears the skirling wind three times; twice at the Wall after Othor and Flowers are brought in, at once at the Skirling Pass. Cat hears the skirling wind crossing the stone saddle from Stone to Sky on her way up the Eryie, and Tyrion hears the skirling wind at the Moon Door. 

 The first mention of a skirling wind comes from Cat in AGOT Catelyn VI. She is traveling up the mountain to the Eyrie with Mya Stone riding from Stone to Sky and they approach a stone saddle bridge she first describes the wind as 'shrieking'.  Later, as she is waiting for Mya to return after taking the mules across "Moving was about the last thing Catelyn was about to do. She listened to the skirling of the wind and the scuffling sound of leather on stone. Then Mya was there, taking her gently by the arm."

The next time the phrase 'skirling wind' is used, Jon hears the wind skirling along the Wall after the Othor and Flowers corpses have been brought in and put into the ice storerooms.  That night while sleeping, Jon is wakened by Ghost to discover Othor is a wight and is trying to kill Mormont and then Jon. Jon kills the wight with fire and saves himself and Mormont.  Flowers however, kills Ser Jaremy Rykker before he is destroyed.

Jon meets a skirling wind again as he rides the cage down from the Wall and "The wind was blowing wild from the east, so strong the heavy cage would rock whenever a gust got it in its teeth. It skirled along the Wall, shivering off the ice, making Jon's cloak flap against the bars."  It not only skirls but makes Jon's coat flap against the bars as he rides it down to kill Mance Rayar on Slynt and Thorne's orders.  

Tyrion demands a trial by combat from Lady Aryn and all laugh "Even the wind seemed to whistle with derision as it came skirling through the Moon Door."

**********

Wind not described as skirling, but could have. 

The wind at the Skirling Pass as described by Jon "The wind cut like a knife up here, and shrilled in the night like a mother mourning her slain children."  Similar as to how the wind is described at the Fist.  Little Giant describes it thus "It sounds like a babe in the brush, wailing away for milk."  and later Chett agrees that "The wind did sound like a wailing child."  Could these winds be voicing the terror and sadness of the women and children killed and turned into wights as they approach the Fist?  Or are they the sounds the Others bring with them as they ride the wind to the Fist?

Wind that skirls and howls:

Alayne is traveling down from the Eyrie and as she is riding down from Sky “Mya's mule will see me through. The wind skirled around her, as she bumped and scraped her way down step by step. It seemed to take a lifetime.”

Later when she and Sweet Robin cross the stone saddle to Snow, “She helped the boy dismount, and hand in hand they walked out onto the bare stone saddle, their cloaks snapping and flapping behind them. All around was empty air and sky, the ground falling away sharply to either side. There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains.”

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Skirls, skirl: (of bagpipes, a wind instrument) make a shrill, wailing sound. The word 'skins' refers to the bag of the bagpipes.

Cat hears a skirled sound at the feast of the wedding of Edmure Tully and Roslin Frey.  However, for what should be a happy celebration the music is dreadful, and Cat describes it as "The drums were pounding, pounding, pounding, and her head with them. Pipes wailed and flutes trilled from the musicians' gallery at the foot of the hall; fiddles screeched, horns blew, the skins skirled a lively tune, but the drumming drove them all."  

Interestingly, the skins skirled a lively tune while the other instruments wailed and screeched as the drums pounded.  Disturbing sounds for a wedding celebration but not for what turned into a murderous, disturbing event, the Red Wedding, where Cat, Robb, Grey Wind and many other Starks and their bannermen lost their lives.

Cat is not the only Stark who hears a skirled sound at the RW .   The Hound and Arya hear the brazen blare of horns and thin skirling of pipes among other discordant sounds as they approach the Twins. "They heard the music before they saw the castle; the distant rattle of drums, the brazen blare of horns, the thin skirling of pipes faint beneath the growl of the river and the sound of the rain beating on their heads. "We've missed the wedding," the Hound said, "but it sounds as though the feast is still going. I'll be rid of you soon." 

Jon hears the skirl of skins when the wildings attack north of the Wall: "The fury of the wild, Jon thought as he listened to the skirl of skins, to the dogs barking and baying, the mammoths trumpeting, the free folk whistling and screaming, the giants roaring in the Old Tongue."

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So, what of the skirling wind, one of the many voices GRRM gives the wind?  Among those voices are descriptions of skirling, whistles, and howls.  It shrieks, morns and wails like grieving mothers and hungry perhaps abandoned children.  A skirling wind can be terrifying, or in the case of Tyrion, full of mockery.  As Wizz notes, much of GRRM's language and writing is subtle, and his use of the wind fits this insight. (Wizz and many fans have noted this, fortunately for those of us who are thick as castle walls, like me.)

2 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

There is so much going on. Whether it be subtle language hidden in George's prose or straight out skinchanger/greenseer activity.

Thanks for reading!  It's been a pleasure researching and writing my little essays.   

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL!           

[Tucu]

@LongRider

Arya's chapters in ACOK and ASOS have a lot of references to wailing, keening, howling and ghostly winds.

First a couple of definitions of keening: "a traditional form of vocal lament for the dead" and "the action of wailing in grief for a dead person"

Now to the relevant quotes.

In ACOK Arya III:

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The one-armed woman died at evenfall. Gendry and Cutjack dug her grave on a hillside beneath a weeping willow. When the wind blew, Arya thought she could hear the long trailing branches whispering, "Please. Please. Please." The little hairs on the back of her neck rose, and she almost ran from the graveside.

<...>

She did try. Yet as she lay under her thin blanket, she could hear the wolves howling . . . and another sound, fainter, no more than a whisper on the wind, that might have been screams.

In ACOK Arya VII:

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The Wailing Tower only wailed when the wind blew from the north, and that was just the sound the air made blowing through the cracks in the stones where they had fissured from the heat. If there were ghosts in Harrenhal, they never troubled her.

In ACOK Arya IX:

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Away from the gates and the stables, the great castle was largely deserted. The noise dwindled behind her. A swirling wind gusted, drawing a high shivery scream from the cracks in the Wailing Tower. Leaves had begun to fall from the trees in the godswood, and she could hear them moving through the deserted courtyards and between the empty buildings, making a faint skittery sound as the wind drove them across the stones. Now that Harrenhal was near empty once again, sound did queer things here. Sometimes the stones seemed to drink up noise, shrouding the yards in a blanket of silence. Other times, the echoes had a life of their own, so every footfall became the tread of a ghostly army, and every distant voice a ghostly feast. The funny sounds were one of the things that bothered Hot Pie, but not Arya.

In ACOK Arya X:

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In the godswood she found her broomstick sword where she had left it, and carried it to the heart tree. There she knelt. Red leaves rustled. Red eyes peered inside her. The eyes of the gods. "Tell me what to do, you gods," she prayed.

For a long moment there was no sound but the wind and the water and the creak of leaf and limb. And then, far far off, beyond the godswood and the haunted towers and the immense stone walls of Harrenhal, from somewhere out in the world, came the long lonely howl of a wolf. Gooseprickles rose on Arya's skin, and for an instant she felt dizzy. Then, so faintly, it seemed as if she heard her father's voice. "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives," he said.

<...>

Finally she slipped from under the blanket, wriggled into a tunic, and padded barefoot down the stairs. Roose Bolton was a cautious man, and the entrance to Kingspyre was guarded day and night, so she had to slip out of a narrow cellar window. The yard was still, the great castle lost in haunted dreams. Above, the wind keened through the Wailing Tower.

<...>

the Wailing Tower screamed mournfully at every gust of wind. It smells like rain. Arya did not know whether that would be good or bad for their escape.

In ASOS Arya VII:

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From up here she could see a storm raging to the north, but High Heart stood above the rain. It wasn't above the wind, though; the gusts were blowing so strongly that it felt like someone was behind her, yanking on her cloak. Only when she turned, no one was there.

Ghosts, she remembered. High Heart is haunted.

<...>

That night the wind was howling almost like a wolf and there were some real wolves off to the west giving it lessons. Notch, Anguy, and Merrit o' Moontown had the watch. Ned, Gendry, and many of the others were fast asleep when Arya spied the small pale shape creeping behind the horses, thin white hair flying wild as she leaned upon a gnarled cane. The woman could not have been more than three feet tall. The firelight made her eyes gleam as red as the eyes of Jon's wolf. He was a ghost too. Arya stole closer, and knelt to watch.

 

[Tucu]

A few more keening wind and sounds.

Waymar's and the Other's swords clashing:

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Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other's danced with pale blue light.

On the Skirling Pass before Jon and Stonesnake attack Ygrette's band:

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Qhorin Halfhand looked at him. Jon could hear the wind keening as it shivered through the high pass above them. One of the garrons whickered and pawed at the thin stony soil of the hollow where they had taken shelter

While Jon and Qhorin try to outrun the wildlings chasing them:

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After that, every night seemed colder than the night before, and more lonely. Ghost was not always with them, but he was never far either. Even when they were apart, Jon sensed his nearness. He was glad for that. The Halfhand was not the most companionable of men. Qhorin's long grey braid swung slowly with the motion of his horse. Often they would ride for hours without a word spoken, the only sounds the soft scrape of horseshoes on stone and the keening of the wind, which blew endlessly through the heights. When he slept, he did not dream; not of wolves, nor his brothers, nor anything. Even dreams cannot live up here, he told himself.

When Sansa is on the ship to the Vale and remembers Joffrey's death:

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Whenever she closed her eyes she saw Joffrey tearing at his collar, clawing at the soft skin of his throat, dying with flakes of pie crust on his lips and wine stains on his doublet. And the wind keening in the lines reminded her of the terrible thin sucking sound he'd made as he fought to draw in air. 

And a couple from Aeron and Victarion before the kingsmoot:

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Outside, beneath the snoring of his drowned men and the keening of the wind, he could hear the pounding of the waves, the hammer of his god calling him to battle. Aeron crept from his little shelter into the chill of the night. Naked he stood, pale and gaunt and tall, and naked he walked into the black salt sea. The water was icy cold, yet he did not flinch from his god's caress. A wave smashed against his chest, staggering him. The next broke over his head. He could taste the salt on his lips and feel the god around him, and his ears rang with the glory of his song. Nine sons were born from the loins of Quellon Greyjoy, and I was the least of them, as weak and frightened as a girl. But no longer. That man is drowned, and the god has made me strong. The cold salt sea surrounded him, embraced him, reached down through his weak man's flesh and touched his bones. Bones, he thought. The bones of the soul. Balon's bones, and Urri's. The truth is in our bones, for flesh decays and bone endures. And on the hill of Nagga, the bones of the Grey King's Hall . . .

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Outside the tent the wind was rising. Clouds raced across the moon's pale face. They looked a bit like galleys, stroking hard to ram. The stars were few and faint. All along the strand the longships rested, tall masts rising like a forest from the surf. Victarion could hear their hulls creaking as they settled on the sand. He heard the keening of their lines, the sound of banners flapping. Beyond, in the deeper waters of the bay, larger ships bobbed at anchor, grim shadows wreathed in mist.

 

[The Sleeper]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:18 AM, Tucu said:

Some of the old Northmen in both camps attribute the snowstorms to the Old Gods' wrath...and they are probably right.

On Winterfell:

On the crofter's village:

Wait until Bran finds the necromancy cookbook and the snow knights manual.

I think Bran and BR are trying to actually save Stannis and his troops and Theon is about to be ridden like Hodor. Bran needs to talk to Stannis.

Regarding the wind and magic.

Mel and Victarion make blood sacrifce for favorable winds in their journeys and seems to work.

After reading the initial OP of the original thread I have horrible suspicion which door poor Hodor is holding ... because it was crying when Bran & co passed through it.

[LynnS]

14 hours ago, LongRider said:

Skirls, skirl: (of bagpipes, a wind instrument) make a shrill, wailing sound. The word 'skins' refers to the bag of the bagpipes.

This reminds me that GRRM compares the WW to the sidhe.  Or the Baen Sidhe pronounced Banshee.

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The Baen Sidhe is the traditional Irish or Scottish spirit who moves around, singing a lament and crying tears of blood, grieving the death of one to come.  A foreshadower of imminent death.  Sometimes she’s old and haggard, other times she’s young, beautiful, but always horribly grieved.

Banshee - Wikipedia

 

[LongRider]

 

7 hours ago, Tucu said:

Arya's chapters in ACOK and ASOS have a lot of references to wailing, keening, howling and ghostly winds.

First a couple of definitions of keening: "a traditional form of vocal lament for the dead" and "the action of wailing in grief for a dead person"

 

6 hours ago, Tucu said:

A few more keening wind and sounds.

Waymar's and the Other's swords clashing:

Great work Tucu!  The 'please, please, please' whispers Arya hears in the rustle of the willow branches, very creepy!  Later the whisper that might be screams; lots of spooky wind in Harrenhal.  The wind yanking Arya's cloak at High Heart, the wind really likes to play with cloaks.  

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

This reminds me that GRRM compares the WW to the sidhe.  Or the Baen Sidhe pronounced Banshee.

 

I wanted to say the wind could sound like a Banshee, but wasn't sure it would be accurate.  I would say that at time's it really could be!  Thanks LynnS!

4 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Mel and Victarion make blood sacrifce for favorable winds in their journeys and seems to work.

Good catch Sleeper!

[Seams]

17 hours ago, LongRider said:

The wind at the Skirling Pass as described by Jon "The wind cut like a knife up here, and shrilled in the night like a mother mourning her slain children."  Similar as to how the wind is described at the Fist.  Little Giant describes it thus "It sounds like a babe in the brush, wailing away for milk."  and later Chett agrees that "The wind did sound like a wailing child." 

This is excellent.

The wind like a mother mourning is another part of he puzzle tying Catelyn / Lady Stoneheart to Alyssa's Tears. Bonus points for the cutting knife metaphor, which may tie the cutting wind to the cutting of Catelyn's hand with the cat's paw dagger.

Now we need to do a search on "shrilled."

The winds like a babe/child, particularly one that is wailing for milk, seem to recall the motherless babies we frequently see - Jon Snow and Tyrion being two notable examples. When Stonesnake is leading Jon Snow up the mountain path, he tells him to press his face against the mountainside, which is like a mother's breast. What does Jon find at the top of the mountain, a view of the river called The Milkwater.

What do we have at the top of the Eyrie? A waterfall that never reaches the valley floor - like breast milk that no baby can drink. 

I think "skirling" may be the key that ties Catelyn and Jon Snow back together. We see skirling here in connection with a mother whose children have died (Catelyn) and a babe with no mother to feed him (Jon Snow). Readers have been led to believe that they are opponents but I think they are going to come together - in a literary, symbolic way, not necessarily literally in the plot - to advance Stark interests. Both die and are reborn (we hope Jon will be reborn) and both have had these journeys up the sides of mountains.

(Somewhere there is a thread or comments comparing Sansa / Alayne's trip down the Giant's Lance mountain to Jon Snow's trip up his mountain. On that journey, Alayne meets up with Myranda Royce and 'Randa compares their breast sizes, evoking the Missy's Teats / Barbra's Teats riverlands rivalry of Aegon IV's mistresses - another comparison of breasts and mountains.)

In the passages provided, I don't see an explicit tie between "skirling" winds and the Others, except the undead / resurrected nature of Catelyn and Jon's bodies may be compared to the transformation of dead people into undead Others / wights.

7 hours ago, Tucu said:

Again and again the swords met, until Will wanted to cover his ears against the strange anguished keening of their clash. Ser Waymar was panting from the effort now, his breath steaming in the moonlight. His blade was white with frost; the Other's danced with pale blue light.

Here there is a connection to the Others - "keening" wind is apparently something different from "skirling" wind. 

The skirling skins were the only part of the music that sounded good to Catelyn, oddly. Here Will can't stand the sound of the clashing swords. For what it's worth, there are a number of points where the five senses become muddled when the others are nearby. Dywen can "taste" the cold and Gared has lost his ears to frostbite. Like Jon Snow being the only one who can "hear" the direwolf Ghost, I wonder what it means that only certain characters can hear keening and skirling wind?

I wonder whether there is wordplay on "keen" and "knee"? The free folk have disdain for the Kneelers who live south of the Wall. Perhaps they would like the Kneelers to be more Keen?

[LongRider]

 

1 hour ago, Seams said:

I think "skirling" may be the key that ties Catelyn and Jon Snow back together. We see skirling here in connection with a mother whose children have died (Catelyn) and a babe with no mother to feed him (Jon Snow).

I'm glad you said this as I too noticed that both Jon and Cat meet terrible fates.  Cat's experience of a skirling wind happens when she is descending from the Eyrie, going down to meet her fate one might say.  Jon hears the skirling wind more that once and the first time it is happens when the wights are brought past the Wall.  Could the skirling winds have somehow been a warning for Jon and Cat?

Tyrion is another one who hears this wind and since it sounds like mockery, it's not a warning.  Perhaps it wasn't laughing at Tyrion though, but those who thought his request for a trial by combat a jape.  The joke was on them however. 

Sansa does not hear a skirling wind but it does skirl around her skirts on her accent to the Eyrie.  The Eyrie was also not a good place for Sansa.

1 hour ago, Seams said:

Like Jon Snow being the only one who can "hear" the direwolf Ghost, I wonder what it means that only certain characters can hear keening and skirling wind?

That's a good question as except for Tyrion, it's the Starks who have heard the skirling wind. However, Tyrion was in the presence of a Stark, as Cat was in attendance when he heard the wind.

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

In the passages provided, I don't see an explicit tie between "skirling" winds and the Others,

If the Others use nature magic like the CotF, then perhaps when the wind is described as skirling, it's not the Others. Might be Gseers, BR maybe Bran?  When the Others attacked the Fist the wind was said to sound like wailing, not the shrieking that could come from a bagpipe.   Good catch!

[LynnS]

I'm wondering what you make of this passage:

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A Feast for Crows - Arya I

A few candles burned along the walls, but gave so little light that Arya could not see her own feet. Someone was whispering, too softly for her to make out words. Someone else was weeping. She heard light footfalls, leather sliding over stone, a door opening and closing. Water, I hear water too.

Slowly her eyes adjusted. The temple seemed much larger within than it had without. The septs of Westeros were seven-sided, with seven altars for the seven gods, but here there were more gods than seven. Statues of them stood along the walls, massive and threatening. Around their feet red candles flickered, as dim as distant stars. The nearest was a marble woman twelve feet tall. Real tears were trickling from her eyes, to fill the bowl she cradled in her arms. Beyond her was a man with a lion's head seated on a throne, carved of ebony. On the other side of the doors, a huge horse of bronze and iron reared up on two great legs. Farther on she could make out a great stone face, a pale infant with a sword, a shaggy black goat the size of an aurochs, a hooded man leaning on a staff. The rest were only looming shapes to her, half-seen through the gloom. Between the gods were hidden alcoves thick with shadows, with here and there a candle burning.

- A statue of a woman weeping tears collected in a bowl. (made in white marble?) I'm reminded of the tears of Lys and the poisoned  well in the House of Black and White.  I think Sweetsunray speculated that the first FM was actually a woman.  

- Beyond her a man with a lion's head sitting on a throne, carved in ebony.  Could this be a Lannister? A former greenseer?

- The huge horse carved in bronze and iron rearing on two legs points straight to the Dothraki and the stallion that mounts the world.  Bronze and iron also make up the metals in the crown of the kings of winter.  A horse without a rider.

- A great stone face representing the stone giant of Braavos,  Littlefinger's sigil and the Titan of Braavos.

- A pale infant with a sword reminds me of Craster's sons.

-A shaggy black goat the size of an aurochs, The famed unicorn of Skagos and Shaggy Dog,

- A hooded man leaning on a staff?

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A Clash of Kings - Daenerys V

The other man wore a traveler's cloak of undyed wool, the hood thrown back. Long white hair fell to his shoulders, and a silky white beard covered the lower half of his face. He leaned his weight on a hardwood staff as tall as he was. Only fools would stare so openly if they meant me harm. All the same, it might be prudent to head back toward Jhogo and Aggo. "The old man does not wear a sword," she said to Jorah in the Common Tongue as she drew him away.

This is the only other reference to a hooded man leaning n a staff.  Barristan Selmy.

So I wonder if these gods represent character's in our story.

 

[Tucu]

8 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm wondering what you make of this passage:

- A statue of a woman weeping tears collected in a bowl. (made in white marble?) I'm reminded of the tears of Lys and the poisoned  well in the House of Black and White.  I think Sweetsunray speculated that the first FM was actually a woman.  

- Beyond her a man with a lion's head sitting on a throne, carved in ebony.  Could this be a Lannister? A former greenseer?

- The huge horse carved in bronze and iron rearing on two legs points straight to the Dothraki and the stallion that mounts the world.  Bronze and iron also make up the metals in the crown of the kings of winter.  A horse without a rider.

- A great stone face representing the stone giant of Braavos,  Littlefinger's sigil and the Titan of Braavos.

- A pale infant with a sword reminds me of Craster's sons.

-A shaggy black goat the size of an aurochs, The famed unicorn of Skagos and Shaggy Dog,

- A hooded man leaning on a staff?

 

 

Most of these are expanded in later chapters as:

-crying woman:The Weeping Lady of Lys so you are right that is probably related to the Tears of Lys.

-man with lion head: The Lion of the Night from Yi Ti (and the Empire of the Dawn)

-pale infant: Bakkalon (a god in GRRM's Thousand Worlds)

-black goat: the Black Goat of Qohor (used in the Brave Companions banners too) who demands daily blood sacrifice

-hooded man: Hooded Wayfarer (we know nothing more on this one)

 

[LongRider]

2 minutes ago, Tucu said:

-hooded man: Hooded Wayfarer (we know nothing more on this one)

The Hooded Man in Winterfell?

[TheLastWolf]

4 minutes ago, LongRider said:

The Hooded Man in Winterfell?

Theon's frenzied imagination 

[Tucu]

33 minutes ago, LongRider said:

The Hooded Man in Winterfell?

You might be right. The Hooded Man is a legendary figure from the Age of Heroes and founder of House Banefort. Looking for the meaning of bane in the dictionary we get:

Quote

A cause of misery or death.

• Synonyms: affliction, curse

  Antonym: boon

  the bane of one's existence

• (dated) Poison, especially any of several poisonous plants.
• (obsolete) A killer, murderer, slayer.
• (obsolete) Destruction; death.

So Theon's hooded man being THE Hooded Man and the Hooded Wayfarer makes sense.

Edit: more info from House Banefort from some lost pieces from the World of Ice and Fire:

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Lann the Clever never called himself a king, as best we know, though some tales told centuries later have conferred that style on him posthumously.  The first true Lannister king we know of is Loreon Lannister, also known as Loreon the Lion (a number of Lannisters through the centuries have been dubbed ‘the Lion’ or ‘the Golden,’ for understandable reasons), who made the Reynes of Castamere his vassals by wedding a daughter of that House, and defeated the Hooded King, Morgon Banefort, and his thralls in a war that lasted twenty years.

King Morgon was supposedly a necromancer of terrible power, and it is written that as he lay dying, he told the Lannisters who had slain him (amongst them three of Loreon’s own sons) that he would return from the grave to wreak vengeance upon them one and all.  To prevent that, Loreon had Morgon’s body hacked into a hundred pieces and fed to his lions.  In a grisly aftermath, however, those selfsame lions broke loose two years later in the bowels of Casterly Rock, and slew the king’s sons, just as the Hooded King had promised.

Source: https://georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/

[LynnS]

35 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Most of these are expanded in later chapters as:

-crying woman:The Weeping Lady of Lys so you are right that is probably related to the Tears of Lys.

-man with lion head: The Lion of the Night from Yi Ti (and the Empire of the Dawn)

-pale infant: Bakkalon (a god in GRRM's Thousand Worlds)

-black goat: the Black Goat of Qohor (used in the Brave Companions banners too) who demands daily blood sacrifice

-hooded man: Hooded Wayfarer (we know nothing more on this one)

 

I think the world book is a bit of a distraction on this one,  I think these gods are also stand-ins for characters in the story as well.

[LynnS]

13 minutes ago, Tucu said:

You might be right. The Hooded Man is a legendary figure from the Age of Heroes and founder of House Banefort. Looking for the meaning of bane in the dictionary we get:

So Theon's hooded man being THE Hooded Man and the Hooded Wayfarer makes sense.

Specifically it's the hooded man leaning on a staff.  Only Barristan Selmy is described this way.  So what are we being told about the part Barristan will play.  If he is the hooded man, who are the others?

[Tucu]

3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I think the world book is a bit of a distraction on this one,  I think these gods are also stand-ins for characters in the story as well.

These names are also used in ASOIAF. From Arya II in AFFC:

Quote

Thirty different gods stood along the walls, surrounded by their little lights. The Weeping Woman was the favorite of old women, Arya saw; rich men preferred the Lion of Night, poor men the Hooded Wayfarer. Soldiers lit candles to Bakkalon, the Pale Child, sailors to the Moon-Pale Maiden and the Merling King. The Stranger had his shrine as well, though hardly anyone ever came to him. Most of the time only a single candle stood flickering at his feet. The kindly man said it did not matter. "He has many faces, and many ears to hear."