The Challenge: North America's fifth sport (spoilers within)

[DanteGabriel]

MTV's The Challenge is back, which I wasn't necessarily expecting because of the plague, but I guess it's pretty easy to quarantine Challenge people. I remember at least a few people here were fans and I've never really talked about it with people in my life, just here sometimes in the NFL threads. There's no hockey or basketball, so I'm extra grateful for this season. It's one of the few shows I watch on the night it airs.

I like the start of this season. The agent/spy shtick kinda grated at first but I enjoy the twists it leads to. Maybe that's all I should say about that, I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't seen it, unless enough people want to discuss it shortly after it airs and I'll spoiler-tag the title.

Last thing I'll say for now is that I've watched this show pretty much since its inception and I have enjoyed watching the evolution of the game and its rules. They have consistently found a way to evolve the setup and I think they've also done a better job recently of rotating the cast. Adding a bunch of British people in recent years really refreshed things. Even TJ has evolved, I think. Also, I'm rooting for LeRoy this season, and most seasons. He's always been a good competitor, a loyal friend, never been a dick on the show even under the worst provocation, and it would be nice to see him finally climb the mountain.

[IlyaP]

Road Rules is now The Challenge?!

[DanteGabriel]

18 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Road Rules is now The Challenge?!

It merged with, and eventually supplanted, the Real World and then absorbed some bits of Big Brother and a few dating shows.

[briantw]

This is literally the greatest show on television.  If it weren't for The Wire, it'd be the greatest show ever.

[DanteGabriel]

12 hours ago, briantw said:

This is literally the greatest show on television.  If it weren't for The Wire, it'd be the greatest show ever.

Well Johnny Bananas may be a greater champion than Tom Brady and peak CT was more intimidating than Randy Johnson was...

[dbunting]

I've been watching it pretty faithfully since the Road Rules Real World challenge first happened. Missed a few seasons in the middle but it's not like that matters!

The most surprising thing about this season so far is who isn't there. A lot of the old school players are not here this season leading to a ton of rookies and year two people so the power base has shifted to more like Survivor when they put a returning player on each team. The rooks are like, yeah they had their chance, buh bye!

As far as spoilers I would be good without them especially since there are probably only a few of us fans here.

[DanteGabriel]

13 hours ago, dbunting said:

I've been watching it pretty faithfully since the Road Rules Real World challenge first happened. Missed a few seasons in the middle but it's not like that matters!

The most surprising thing about this season so far is who isn't there. A lot of the old school players are not here this season leading to a ton of rookies and year two people so the power base has shifted to more like Survivor when they put a returning player on each team. The rooks are like, yeah they had their chance, buh bye!

What veterans are you missing? I'm actually kind of glad Bananas is gone, and maybe we saw the last of him after his last win. I don't really want Cara Maria back. I used to root for her because she was a misfit and a Boston native, but she seemed to start to pursue drama for the sake of drama. She lost me when she got so pointlessly unhinged over Kyle getting with other girls.

CT is back and I'm always happy he's there. Wes is good for intrigue even if he overestimates himself all the time. Maybe we'll miss Jordan since he was both a strong competitor and a lightning rod/asshole. Who do you think should have come back?

Quote

As far as spoilers I would be good without them especially since there are probably only a few of us fans here.

You mean, you don't want spoilers discussed here?

[Jaxom 1974]

Wait. MTV doesn't just have music videos anymore...???

[dbunting]

7 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

What veterans are you missing? I'm actually kind of glad Bananas is gone, and maybe we saw the last of him after his last win. I don't really want Cara Maria back. I used to root for her because she was a misfit and a Boston native, but she seemed to start to pursue drama for the sake of drama. She lost me when she got so pointlessly unhinged over Kyle getting with other girls.

CT is back and I'm always happy he's there. Wes is good for intrigue even if he overestimates himself all the time. Maybe we'll miss Jordan since he was both a strong competitor and a lightning rod/asshole. Who do you think should have come back?

You mean, you don't want spoilers discussed here?

Well bananas, cara, rogan and his stripper BFF, bear, can’t remember their names but the toxic couple Jenna and Zach I think.  I don’t miss all of them. Just surprised that many aren’t there. As to spoilers we shouldn’t need tags here since it’s the challenge 

[briantw]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Well bananas, cara, rogan and his stripper BFF, bear, can’t remember their names but the toxic couple Jenna and Zach I think.  I don’t miss all of them. Just surprised that many aren’t there. As to spoilers we shouldn’t need tags here since it’s the challenge 

Yeah a lot of vets are missing, particularly ones who fuel the drama on the show, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now.  I totally saw the twist of the challenge winner getting to pick their new teammate coming, so what really interests me is what happens with the person (or people) they don't pick.  Based on the previews, neither Wes nor CT is leaving, so that means that there must be some contingency for players without a partner.  I'll be interested to see how they handle that.

[DanteGabriel]

13 hours ago, dbunting said:

Well bananas, cara, rogan and his stripper BFF, bear, can’t remember their names but the toxic couple Jenna and Zach I think.  I don’t miss all of them. Just surprised that many aren’t there. As to spoilers we shouldn’t need tags here since it’s the challenge 

Okay I do miss Bear. His relentless and shameless fuckboy campaigns should have been irritating but it was actually pretty entertaining. He wasn't what we'd really call a veteran though, was he?

Jenna was okay but I'm not going to miss Zach. I haven't really been able to take him seriously since he collapsed, whining and crying, during that final however many years ago. Was he partnered with Aneesa then?

One vet I wish had come back was Laurel. She was a great competitor and mean when she needed to be. Especially in this season with Lolo Jones and that woman from Survivor who won the first elimination (I don't watch any of the feeder shows like Survivor or Big Brother), having Laurel around could have made for some "who's the baddest woman" drama.

It's definitely a different power balance this year, though last year seemed like the first time the OG vets were really challenged from the start. Seems like CT miscalculated by rejecting Kam for Ashley. Kam is one of my favorite new-ish players.

10 hours ago, briantw said:

Yeah a lot of vets are missing, particularly ones who fuel the drama on the show, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for now.  I totally saw the twist of the challenge winner getting to pick their new teammate coming, so what really interests me is what happens with the person (or people) they don't pick.  Based on the previews, neither Wes nor CT is leaving, so that means that there must be some contingency for players without a partner.  I'll be interested to see how they handle that.

Yeah, like I said, I enjoy the rule twists and the way the producers change things over time in response to player actions. Like instituting the skulls last year so no one could coast into the final on political alliances like Rogan did before. I was once a game designer so it's extra interesting to me.

[Fiddler]

On 12/12/2020 at 10:24 AM, DanteGabriel said:

 

Yeah, like I said, I enjoy the rule twists and the way the producers change things over time in response to player actions. Like instituting the skulls last year so no one could coast into the final on political alliances like Rogan did before. I was once a game designer so it's extra interesting to me.

I am a huge Challenge fan.  Been watching since the days of Road rules.  Love the evolution of the game, but love love love the drama stuff (not sure why, but nothing amuses me more than the drunken crazy screaming matches).

Enjoyed the twist they did with the skulls last year, but I think the producers were thrown a bit for a loop the way the players basically got together and started a volunteer "chain".  This year may end up differently with the twist of knowing how many skulls are going to go out and the double agent twist.  Hopefully it will lead to some tasty partner stealing.

I do miss Jonny though.  He has had a couple of the best moments in Challenge history (Jonny backpack and taking all the money against Sara) and has grown on me over the years.  This would have been an interesting year to have him because there are a few different enemies of his in the house, the drama would have been exquisite.

[briantw]

6 hours ago, Fiddler said:

I am a huge Challenge fan.  Been watching since the days of Road rules.  Love the evolution of the game, but love love love the drama stuff (not sure why, but nothing amuses me more than the drunken crazy screaming matches).

Enjoyed the twist they did with the skulls last year, but I think the producers were thrown a bit for a loop the way the players basically got together and started a volunteer "chain".  This year may end up differently with the twist of knowing how many skulls are going to go out and the double agent twist.  Hopefully it will lead to some tasty partner stealing.

I do miss Jonny though.  He has had a couple of the best moments in Challenge history (Jonny backpack and taking all the money against Sara) and has grown on me over the years.  This would have been an interesting year to have him because there are a few different enemies of his in the house, the drama would have been exquisite.

I think what makes the show work so well is how they keep bringing back the same people year over year while adding new ones to the mix.  You get to see people evolve over time.  Villains become heroes, like CT, or at least become halfway likable like Bananas as you mentioned.  Heroes become villains, like Cara.  Some people are just absolute psychos like Frank and Jordan and are a wild card thrown into the mix.  Plus they're all violent, deranged alcoholics and the show pumps them full of the sweet stuff with regularity and we get to watch the fallout.

I will say that I'm not a huge fan of the new skull system they introduced last season and brought back this year.  I know it's to make sure everyone has to enter into an elimination if they want to win, but I think it has had the reverse effect last year and made a lot of the eliminations less interesting because they ended up largely just being really one-sided.  This season might be a little better, though, because it seems like they made it more difficult for players to game the system to get easy elimination rounds.

[DanteGabriel]

7 hours ago, Fiddler said:

I am a huge Challenge fan.  Been watching since the days of Road rules.  Love the evolution of the game, but love love love the drama stuff (not sure why, but nothing amuses me more than the drunken crazy screaming matches).

I have to confess, the most fun drama is watching the people with significant others back home slowly give in to temptation. None quite so blatant as Bear's campaign to wear down Kayla's defenses, but fun all the same.

Psychos like Camilla are gone, Ashley was booted in the first episode, so we'll have to rely on newer people for drama. I suspect Lolo Jones will be good for that.

 

7 hours ago, Fiddler said:

Enjoyed the twist they did with the skulls last year, but I think the producers were thrown a bit for a loop the way the players basically got together and started a volunteer "chain".  This year may end up differently with the twist of knowing how many skulls are going to go out and the double agent twist.  Hopefully it will lead to some tasty partner stealing.

Yeah, you could see the skulls were a response to players coasting through a season based on alliances, and now they've thrown in some stuff to counteract the lining-up behavior that the players fell into last season. I imagine this is kind of like a test of wits between producers and contestants.

I wonder if they'll ever bring back the loser house where people hung out after they were eliminated, waiting for a chance to get back in.

 

7 hours ago, Fiddler said:

I do miss Jonny though.  He has had a couple of the best moments in Challenge history (Jonny backpack and taking all the money against Sara) and has grown on me over the years.  This would have been an interesting year to have him because there are a few different enemies of his in the house, the drama would have been exquisite.

The Johnny Backpack, I'm not sure there's ever been a more thorough domination of someone -- though watching Jordan with his 1.5 hands outwit Josh (what a numpty) in a rope-pulling challenge last year was pretty funny. I wonder if Sara is just gone forever -- the sting of being robbed by Johnny would be too much to come back from. I wouldn't blame her for not coming back, but she was a good competitor.

[briantw]

The Banana Backpack is an all-time great TV moment, and it happened at a perfect time when Johnny was at the height of his villainy.  Well, maybe the height was robbing Sarah, who everyone loves, but still.

[lady narcissa]

How many episodes have aired so far? I saw an article the other month that said this would be coming out and then forgot about it until today when a video montage of Diem taking off her wig was going around Twitter today and remembered it.  I will probably tune it.  I used to love to watch this and might try it for nostalgia again.  But I don't know how many of the people I will remember if a lot of the regular crew is gone.

[dbunting]

5 hours ago, lady narcissa said:

How many episodes have aired so far? I saw an article the other month that said this would be coming out and then forgot about it until today when a video montage of Diem taking off her wig was going around Twitter today and remembered it.  I will probably tune it.  I used to love to watch this and might try it for nostalgia again.  But I don't know how many of the people I will remember if a lot of the regular crew is gone.

Only one actual episode has been aired, the next one is tonight.

I didn't think Johnny or Ashley taking the money as being a villain move. I seem to remember Sara saying she wouldn't share it and that mental midget Ashley was paired with said it repeatedly and did nothing but be a dick to her. I couldn't believe how he actually thought she would split it with him.

Can't stand Camilla or Ashley, glad she got booted already. Cara Maria use to be my favorite until she got hooked on that one guys dick and was never the same after that, he holds a spell over her.

[Fiddler]

On 12/15/2020 at 6:54 PM, DanteGabriel said:

I have to confess, the most fun drama is watching the people with significant others back home slowly give in to temptation. None quite so blatant as Bear's campaign to wear down Kayla's defenses, but fun all the same.

Psychos like Camilla are gone, Ashley was booted in the first episode, so we'll have to rely on newer people for drama. I suspect Lolo Jones will be good for that.

 

Yeah, you could see the skulls were a response to players coasting through a season based on alliances, and now they've thrown in some stuff to counteract the lining-up behavior that the players fell into last season. I imagine this is kind of like a test of wits between producers and contestants.

I wonder if they'll ever bring back the loser house where people hung out after they were eliminated, waiting for a chance to get back in.

 

The Johnny Backpack, I'm not sure there's ever been a more thorough domination of someone -- though watching Jordan with his 1.5 hands outwit Josh (what a numpty) in a rope-pulling challenge last year was pretty funny. I wonder if Sara is just gone forever -- the sting of being robbed by Johnny would be too much to come back from. I wouldn't blame her for not coming back, but she was a good competitor.

I don't know if anyone watched the Celebrity Big Brother with Lolo, but she could be a real source of some drama.

I forgot about the Jordan/Josh rope challenge.  The way Jordan completely played Josh was fantastic.  Especially because of the amount of crap Josh talks, but has never lived up to.  I love the "rivalry" he had with Wes last year.

I love the twist this season of the hidden votes, but the winning pair seeing who voted for whom.  Fantastic, especially while no one else in the house knows about it.

[Whiskeyjack]

Really enjoy The Challenge, have watched every season.

Think this season is shaping up to be a lot of fun.  Love that they announced upfront that there will only be 10 gold skulls.  Adds an interesting dynamic.  Yeah, you want a gold skull - but if you get one early, do you become a target?  I'm assuming that at a certain point, people will be forced to go after players who have already earned one.  So timing could be complicated, especially if you're a weak or mid-tier player who might be viewed as the easiest target.

That said - actually, umm - was any decision made about spoilers?  It's been a couple of days since this week's episode, but don't want to ruin it for anybody who is behind.  Will spoil things for now - @DanteGabriel let us know how you want to handle things.

Spoiler

Thought Fessy was an idiot for not going in this week.  (1) He's strong and everyone is afraid of him and/or allied with him, so its not as if he would ever become a target, and (2) Joseph was by far the easiest guy to go against.  No matter what the competition was, he should have jumped at the chance to play and get his skull.

Also, seems like things are going well for him with Aneesa.  But if he was still upset about being partnered with her, could have been an opportunity for him to get an easy win and then pick somebody new to be his teammate.  At a certain point, Aneesa is probably going to drag him down in a physical competition.  Though I guess she can't get him eliminated (unless they throw in a twist, along the lines of some women's eliminations, some men's eliminations, and some team eliminations).  So for now, would come down to how he weighs her negatives as a competitor vs positives of maintaining the status quo and possible social benefits (seems like the alliance is more from his connections than hers, but who knows).

Also - I think the best change this season is the ability to switch partners.  Expecting that to provide great drama all season.  Will hopefully keep things exciting.

Spoiler

Kyle was the perfect person to win this week's elimination.  He's fine with laying low and keeping things the same if he's in a good position, but is very realistic about his situation and has no fear of upsetting people and making a move if he thinks it will benefit himself.  Loved seeing him recognize that he needed to infiltrate the Big Brother/Leroy/Kam/Cory/Nelson alliance.  Smart move. 

My only question is if he picked the right partner there, or if he'd have been better off with Kaycee.  Picking her would have put him directly in the middle of that group.  Picking Kam connects him to one of the leaders in some ways, but it's not as if she's been locked in with that group in past years, right?  Kind of seemed like she got pissed at CT, attached herself to that group, and then took over to some degree.  Might just be editing to make it seem that way, hard to know.  But left me wondering if they will have a ton of loyalty to her in the long run (outside of Leroy).

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Oh wanted to mention one other thing, in case anybody hasn't seen it.

Netflix just added 2 old seasons of The Challenge. 

Season 10 - The Inferno II
Season 13 - The Duel

Fun to go back and see some of the old school players.  And some of the long-term players in their early years.