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Who was the bigger idiot, Rhaegar, Brandon or Robert?


Alyn Oakenfist

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So fundamentally the rebellion happened due to one Mad King and 3 idiots:

- Rhaegar running away with the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the bethroded of another

- Brandon marching to the gates of King's Landing demanding the Crown Prince's head

- Robert thinking himself in love and thinking it must have been rape and making the war against House Targaryen instead of against Aerys.

The only question is, who was the bigger idiot?

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23 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So fundamentally the rebellion happened due to one Mad King and 3 idiots:

- Rhaegar running away with the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the bethroded of another

- Brandon marching to the gates of King's Landing demanding the Crown Prince's head

- Robert thinking himself in love and thinking it must have been rape and making the war against House Targaryen instead of against Aerys.

The only question is, who was the bigger idiot?

It would be classed as rape in their society due to Lyanna being betrothed to another man and her father/family not giving Rhaegar permission to carry her off. In the medieval world it would be still seen as rape. In modern society, or at least most modern western society, it would be considered rape because of her age. Rhaegar is a rapist no matter how you look at it. Lyanna's consent does not really come into it given she is still considered a child in their world. She is lacking agency.

Should also be noted that Robert only went to war when they demanded his head. And given Rhegar was clearly on his father's side, why would he not associate the Targs as his enemies? They wanted him dead, he wiped them out first.

 

Rhaegar and Brandon share the title. Robert should not even be in the conversation.

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51 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- Brandon marching to the gates of King's Landing demanding the Crown Prince's head

Stupid yet understandable.

 

52 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- Robert thinking himself in love and thinking it must have been rape and making the war against House Targaryen instead of against Aerys.

I fail to understand the point.

Robert being in love was not what triggered the war, nor i know how can you def tell he wasn't but whatever, Jon Arryn started the war because Aerys wanted him to execute his fostered sons. Robert had other more inmediate reasons to fight the war, like keeping his head on his shoulders.

Besides, the rebel leaders were the ones choosing to remove the Targs altogether, not just Robert, he didn't have hte armies to impose his opinion, even if he wanted to.

 

38 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

I feel like anyone could have an affair, or act in fury when their ego is bruised. But yelling threats to a guy dubbed 'the Mad King'? :dunce:

Anyone could have an affair with the daughter of a Great Lord who is bethrothed to another Great Lord, who just happen to be your cousin, and whose brother was going to marry the daughter of another Great Lord??

I don't know how could anyone could've done it.

Btw, no one was yelling threats to a guy dubbed the Mad King,  unless Rhaegar had that moniker at the time. And it's perfectly understandable when you believe your sister has been kidnapped.

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Brandon somehow stayed in such a state of irrational anger from Riverrun all the way to King’s Landing. And none of his companions seemed to have given their plan any thought, or tried to tell Brandon to use tact. They’re all the biggest idiots, as far as I’m concerned.

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1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

Brandon somehow stayed in such a state of irrational anger from Riverrun all the way to King’s Landing. And none of his companions seemed to have given their plan any thought, or tried to tell Brandon to use tact. They’re all the biggest idiots, as far as I’m concerned.

You are right, Ive changed my mind. This would be Brandon. Rhaegar probably thought he could get away with it.

9 minutes ago, TedBear said:

If it all comes down to "running away for love" I would say it was Rhaegar, but I sure should have a prophetic dream or something involved, so I vote for Brandon.

There is a nice looking woman in neighbourhood, I think I'am just having prophetic dream :P

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8 minutes ago, frenin said:

Did Brandon think he was riding to his death??

I dont know what he was thinking but to challenge sb of royal blood with harsh words seems pretty foolhardy. I assume he knew Aerys is not very patient. I just would not call any of them idiot, it is too heavy word. Especially not Robert in this case . He took the risk and won.

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Brandon does come off as the biggest idiot of the 3 you mentioned, with Rhaegar not too far behind him. Robert almost comes off as blameless, when compared to the other 2. I mean the guy didn't start fighting the Targs until the Mad King asked for his and Ned's heads. Should we honestly blame the guy for fighting back, when a crazy person tried to kill him.

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10 minutes ago, broken one said:

I dont know what he was thinking but to challenge sb of royal blood with harsh words seems pretty foolhardy.

Just as kidnapping his sister I think, it was certainly stupid but i believe it's perfectly understandable he was not thinking straight and that his travel from Riverrun to King's Landing only  served to fuel his rage and fear. Which leads to him shouting out to Rhaegar to come out and die. 

Stupid but understandable.

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57 minutes ago, broken one said:

There is a nice looking woman in neighbourhood, I think I'am just having prophetic dream :P

Hahaha Actually doing this for a prophecy or something seems even more stupid, but in view of the series we are reading ....

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I don't think you can really put Rhaegar on the list, because we still don't know what happened. You say he eloped or kidnapped Lyanna, I say he was rescuing her from his father who found out that she was the mystery knight at Harrenhal, that person he named a traitor, and sent men after her to bring her to KL for his judgement.

Robert's idiocy in the current story notwithstanding, he went to war, he won the war and he became king. If his initial goal was to kill Rhaegar, then he certainly did achieve that. 

Brandon riding out to KL and shouting for the crown prince to come out and die, well that makes him extremely stupid.

Why is Aerys not on the list?

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Robert is not comparable to the stupidity of Rhaegar and Brandon. Tho none of them are comparable to Aerys, I mean, really, he had two great hostages (or maybe three, with Elbert Arryn) and he killed them?? he could've exchanged them for Ned and no rebellion would have ever happened, but even if he didn't exchange them, the Vale and the North would never rise against him while he kept them prisoners.

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16 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I say he was rescuing her from his father who found out that she was the mystery knight at Harrenhal, that person he named a traitor, and sent men after her to bring her to KL for his judgement.

The only reason Aerys cared for the mystery knight at all is because he was sure the knigh was Jaime Lannister. 

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1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 

Brandon riding out to KL and shouting for the crown prince to come out and die, well that makes him extremely stupid.

 

Especially when he clearly knows that his king is insane. And what was he honestly expecting? Just imagine that scene and it’s utterly ludicrous. A group of noblemen on horseback from out of town, riding up to the gates, and the big guy leading them starts shouting for the crown prince to come out and die. Can you imagine the guards just looking down at them and wondering if they’re drunk? Then imagine one of them approaching King Aerys and saying something like “Uh, your Grace, we’ve got some fellows who want to kill the prince. They’re outside the gates, should we kill them for treason or capture them? Either one works, they really just came here of their own volition, and they’re outnumbered... no, I’m not joking, your grace, they’re just blatantly committing treason in front of us.”

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