Who was the bigger idiot, Rhaegar, Brandon or Robert?

[BalerionTheCat]

Brandon yelling at Aerys was definitely a stupid idea.

Robert wrong was wanting a woman who didn't want of him. You could add her father there.

Rhaegar was driven by some unknown prophecy. We need more of the story to understand his motivations.

[Northern Sword]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:47 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

How was Ned to blame for the rebellion at all?

The op was about who was the biggest idiot. I didn’t take that to be specific to the rebellion. I was thinking along the lines of post rebellion and his lack of political instincts in the south once Robert died. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

1 hour ago, Northern Sword said:

The op was about who was the biggest idiot. I didn’t take that to be specific to the rebellion. I was thinking along the lines of post rebellion and his lack of political instincts in the south once Robert died. 

The OP said

On 12/11/2020 at 8:36 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So fundamentally the rebellion happened due to one Mad King and 3 idiots:

So I think that it’s reasonable to assume that he meant Robert’s Rebellion.

[frenin]

18 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

That still doesn’t get Brandon off the hook. It’s no secret by that point that Aerys is mad. Brandon saw him with his own eyes at the tourney. If it’s so obvious that he’s insane, and he’s still the King on the Iron Throne, he’s likely to do something insane when confronted with a challenge to his son. 

Rhaegar and Aerys were at odds, that was well known and nothing Brandon saw proved that Aerys was dangerous. Hindsight is 20/20 tho.

[Jaenara Belarys]

20 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Well said. People conveniently forget that Brandon went to KL for a reason and that we don’t have a witness of what happened.

Great. He went there for a reason. I agree. The thing is, you don't solve a problem with a mad king by threatening to kill his heir!

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Rhaegar and Aerys were at odds, that was well known and nothing Brandon saw proved that Aerys was dangerous. Hindsight is 20/20 tho.

How about the mood swings? If you say the wrong thing, you might be tossed in a dungeon to die.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

7 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Great. He went there for a reason. I agree. The problem is, you don't solve a problem with a mad king by threatening to kill his heir!

Do we have a witness that Brandon threatened Rhaegar? I cannot remember. Personally I believe that he didn’t the come out and die was another one of Varys’ conspiracies to destroy the connections between Aerys and his Lords.

[Jaenara Belarys]

22 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Do we have a witness that Brandon threatened Rhaegar? I cannot remember. Personally I believe that he didn’t the come out and die was another one of Varys’ conspiracies to destroy the connections between Aerys and his Lords.

Brandon rode into the Red Keep, so chances are he actually did say it. 

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

45 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Brandon rode into the Red Keep, so chances are he actually did say it. 

Who said that?

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Who said that?

I did. 

[Lee-Sensei]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:36 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So fundamentally the rebellion happened due to one Mad King and 3 idiots:

- Rhaegar running away with the daughter of a Lord Paramount and the bethroded of another

- Brandon marching to the gates of King's Landing demanding the Crown Prince's head

- Robert thinking himself in love and thinking it must have been rape and making the war against House Targaryen instead of against Aerys.

The only question is, who was the bigger idiot?

They’re all idiots to some extent, but in order of responsibility it goes Rhaegar>>>>>>>>>>>>Brandon>>>>>>>>>>>>Robert.

[Jaenara Belarys]

2 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

They’re all idiots to some extent, but in order of responsibility it goes Rhaegar>>>>>>>>>>>>Brandon>>>>>>>>>>>>Robert.

So you think that Rhaegar was the biggest idiot?

[Lee-Sensei]

6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

So you think that Rhaegar was the biggest idiot?

It’s hard to argue that he didn’t play a bigger role here. Brandon made bad choices, but he thought his sister was being raped. Robert did nothing until his head was called for. He literally did nothing wrong here. He did stupid or cruel things in other areas of his life, but he played no role in starting the war. He just finished it.

[Jaenara Belarys]

4 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

It’s hard to argue that he didn’t play a bigger role here. Brandon made bad choices, but he thought his sister was being raped. Robert did nothing until his head was called for. He literally did nothing wrong here. He did stupid or cruel things in other areas of his life, but he played no role in starting the war. He just finished it.

Both Rhaegar and Brandon made bad choices, but I don't think that Rhaegar, in Brandon's place, would ride into the Red Keep shouting for the Prince of Dragonstone to "come out and die". 

[Nathan Stark]

2 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Both Rhaegar and Brandon made bad choices, but I don't think that Rhaegar, in Brandon's place, would ride into the Red Keep shouting for the Prince of Dragonstone to "come out and die". 

If you're sister had apparently just been abducted and held captive by the crown prince, you might be forgiven for being irrationally upset.

[Jaenara Belarys]

11 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

If you're sister had apparently just been abducted and held captive by the crown prince, you might be forgiven for being irrationally upset.

Look. Brandon KNOWS that Aerys is crazy. If guards hear the big northman screaming for the crown prince to come out and die and they tell the mad king, how do you think the mad king is going to react?? I don't blame him for being really ticked off, but use that thing you keep inside your skull. 

[Lee-Sensei]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Both Rhaegar and Brandon made bad choices, but I don't think that Rhaegar, in Brandon's place, would ride into the Red Keep shouting for the Prince of Dragonstone to "come out and die". 

Maybe not, but his sister was kidnapped. He made a dumb choice, but I give him a pass given the circumstance. It all starts with Rhaegar.

[Lee-Sensei]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Look. Brandon KNOWS that Aerys is crazy. If guards hear the big northman screaming for the crown prince to come out and die and they tell the mad king, how do you think the mad king is going to react?? I don't blame him for being really ticked off, but use that thing you keep inside your skull. 

You could say the same thing about Rhaegar. She was betrothed to a Great Lord, the daughter of a Great Lord. They had strong ties to two other Great Lords and he was already married to the sister of a Great Lord.

[Jaenara Belarys]

2 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

You could say the same thing about Rhaegar. She was betrothed to a Great Lord, the daughter of a Great Lord. They had strong ties to two other Great Lords and he was already married to the sister of a Great Lord.

Rhaegar at least can be excused by the "the dragon has three heads" prophecy. Brandon doesn't have that much of an excuse for not using his brain.

[Lee-Sensei]

36 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Rhaegar at least can be excused by the "the dragon has three heads" prophecy. Brandon doesn't have that much of an excuse for not using his brain.

No. It can’t be excused at all. It was monumentally stupid. Then he left his insane father to deal with the mess he created. It was far worse than Brandon.

[Nathan Stark]

43 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said:

No. It can’t be excused at all. It was monumentally stupid. Then he left his insane father to deal with the mess he created. It was far worse than Brandon.

Or it was monumentally insane. Rheagar was a Targaryen. Either way, Rheagar acted. Brandon responded in a rash way towards the even more rash behavior of the heir to the Seven Kingdoms. How did Rheagar not anticipate that absconding with Lyanna might be taken poorly by House Stark?