Jump to content
Westeros

Matt Smith, Olivia Cooke, Emma D’Arcy Cast in House of the Dragon

Recommended Posts

Honestly I would wait for some other confirmation, it is odd that he is credited for only 1 episode, since Corlys is present as a player from time of Great Council to the End of the Dance.

Imdb isn't so reliable, I can say from personal experience.

One time in Imdb for Warhammer II Total War  a fan of edgy character similar to Daemon or Elric of Melniboné  - Malus Darkblade, wanted to  troll the fandom, so he changed credit for actor Mark Noble - who already voiced one of the main characters  named Tyrion- likely named after Tolkien's Tirion . I sent request to Imdb editors for them to change actor's credit in game, since Malus wasn't released in game yet and major voice role would better represent his involvement in game, which they eventually changed.

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/225010/next-de-ll-leaked/p2

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/225147/malus-got-cancelled/p1

Edited by Eltharion21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Redanian Intelligence just e-mailed me a casting sheet for Corlys Velaryon.  

It doesn't describe his physical appearance at all. Otherwise his characterization is reasonably accurate to the books:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Redanian Intelligence just e-mailed me a casting sheet for Corlys Velaryon.  

It doesn't describe his physical appearance at all. Otherwise his characterization is reasonably accurate to the books:

 

Corlys being described as a self made man doesn't really make sense considering the Velayrons are an old noble family and the traditional spouses of the Targaryens. But if the Sapani rumor is true, and they make him say half Summer Islander, he could have a chip on his shoulder for being made to feel like an outsider; and in response he out works the other lords of Westeros and not only makes his family the richest in the 7K, but marries the daughter of the Prince of Dragonstone.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seriously can't believe how this show is going down the hill for me even before it starts. Viserys' and Alicent's casting is good, Rhaenyra's and Daemon's not.

No, I am not racist at all, what I'm tryna express with this is that accuracy ehat HotD should go for. For example, making Saan a black character in GoT was a pretty good idea. They managed to do it without ruining the feeling of having  accuracy.And then there is Corlys. Game of Thrones managed not to be PC when it came to casting lords of a feudal monarchy, and then here comes this. Here comes Corlys, the head of the 2nd greatest house at the time of the Dance being black in a white society. But Corlys is supposed to have white children, 4 of them, actually. How would that work? 

It's seriously like making a white actor a chief of a tribe of black people, and everyone being black except for him.

I'm seriously losing interest in this, and it haven't even started yet.

 

Edited by Daeron the Daring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I seriously can't believe how this show is going down the hill for me even before it starts. Viserys' and Alicent's casting is good, Rhaenyra's and Daemon's not.

No, I am not racist at all, what I'm tryna express with this is that accuracy ehat HotD should go for. For example, making Saan a black character in GoT was a pretty good idea. They managed to do it without ruining the feeling of having  accuracy.And then there is Corlys. Game of Thrones managed not to be PC when it came to casting lords of a feudal monarchy, and then here comes this. Here comes Corlys, the head of the 2nd greatest house at the time of the Dance being black in a white society. But Corlys is supposed to have white children, 4 of them, actually. How would that work? 

It's seriously like making a white actor a chief of a tribe of black people, and everyone being black except for him.

I'm seriously losing interest in this, and it haven't even started yet.

 

Have they cast Laneor and Laena yet? It would be ridiculous if Corlys is black and his children are white LMAO. If Andreeva's reporting is accurate (I suspect it is) then Laenor and Laena will probably be biracial on the show. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Sotan said:

Have they cast Laneor and Laena yet? It would be ridiculous if Corlys is black and his children are white LMAO. If Andreeva's reporting is accurate (I suspect it is) then Laenor and Laena will probably be biracial on the show. 

It would still ruin everything. Corlys is black, his children (and not just Laena and Laenor, but Addam and Alyn too) would be biracial, but still dragonriders, and then Laenor's children would look like Harwin, and not getting anything from Laenor's look, nor Corlys', nor even Rhaenyra. This sound like some serious bullshit to me, to be honest, and I can't imagine a case where this would look any good. HotD being so PC seems ridiculous to me, especially since GoT wasn't, and George is said to be at the wheel, to get something as accurate as possible to his original work.

And people who would watch it, and did not read the books will still get to know that House Velaryon was supposed to look like the Targaryens (because news will probably talk about this), and this likely will make many people cringe.

And not only this, but wouldn't be racist to call the Blacks blacks? Because they're black? And wouldn't it be cringe and racist to see black people lurking between many Valyrian-looking people? Or black people having silver-blonde hair?

Edited by Daeron the Daring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

It would still ruin everything. Corlys is black, his children (and not just Laena and Laenor, but Addam and Alyn too) would be biracial, but still dragonriders, and then Laenor's children would look like Harwin, and not getting anything from Laenor's look, nor Corlys', nor even Rhaenyra. This sound like some serious bullshit to me, to be honest, and I can't imagine a case where this would look any good. HotD being so PC seems ridiculous to me, especially since GoT wasn't, and George is said to be at the wheel, to get something as accurate as possible to his original work.

And people who would watch it, and did not read the books will still get to know that House Velaryon was supposed to look like the Targaryens (because news will probably talk about this), and this likely will make many people cringe.

And not only this, but wouldn't be racist to call the Blacks blacks? Because they're black? And wouldn't it be cringe and racist to see black people lurking between many Valyrian-looking people? Or black people having silver-blonde hair?

I personally don't have a problem with this change, its a fantasy show and most casual viewers won't care. This is the show that Condal and GRRM pitched to HBO, I don't think this change would've happened without his agreement. I do agree calling the side with many black actors "the blacks" is cringe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2021 at 9:37 PM, Sotan said:

Corlys being described as a self made man doesn't really make sense considering the Velayrons are an old noble family and the traditional spouses of the Targaryens. But if the Sapani rumor is true, and they make him say half Summer Islander, he could have a chip on his shoulder for being made to feel like an outsider; and in response he out works the other lords of Westeros and not only makes his family the richest in the 7K, but marries the daughter of the Prince of Dragonstone.  

Corlys is a self-made man. He is the greatest known explorer, he first doubled the wealth of House Velaryon, and then made them the richest house in the Seven Kingdoms. He built the most beautiful castle and established two boom towns who did more trade than KL itself.

And he married a dragonrider princess, second in line to the Iron Throne, setting things up so the Iron Throne would pass from House Targaryen to House Velaryon in his children.

Before Corlys and after Corlys the Velaryons were influential and well-connected, but they weren't effectively the greatest house in Westeros after the Targaryens. That they were only while Corlys Velaryon was around.

On 1/16/2021 at 6:57 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

Redanian Intelligence just e-mailed me a casting sheet for Corlys Velaryon.  

It doesn't describe his physical appearance at all. Otherwise his characterization is reasonably accurate to the books:

 

The interesting part there is that this seems to indicate we are going to get the Stepstones war as a part of season 1. That would be what Corlys' ambitions are about. His wife and son and daughter are passed over for the Iron Throne, so he and Daemon are (eventually) going to conquer their own kingdom.

And if they are smart then they are going to keep the Stepstones plot in the game, so to speak, since the Triarchy comes back big time during the Dance. This would certainly be a way to make this new show feel more different than GoT since there would be different locations involved.

On 1/18/2021 at 10:53 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

For example, making Saan a black character in GoT was a pretty good idea. They managed to do it without ruining the feeling of having  accuracy.

Actually, that was a stupid idea because every book reader knows that the Lyseni are pale, fair-haired, violet-eyed Valyrian pricks. This did clash with the established world-building much more than, say, a black Davos would have (who certainly as a lowborn smuggler could have a mixed ancestry).

ASoIaF does have black and other PoC characters it it ... none of which the show decided to include. And I'm not just talking about the actual Summer Islander characters (Chataya, Alayaya, Black Balaq, Jalabhar Xho, the crew of the Cinnamon Wind, etc.) but also characters like Brown Ben Plumm, the Dothraki and Lhzareen, and, most importantly, pretty much any Braavosi in the story - all of which are descended from former slaves from all over the world - meaning basically anyone could play any Braavosi without anyone being able to discount it as inaccurate.

And a similar thing is also true for the Pentoshi - they would not be as diverse as the Braavosi, but certainly more diverse than the average Westerosi.

If Corlys Velaryon does turn out to be black then this certainly isn't how things are in the book - but it wouldn't be worse than a black Salladhor Saan or a black Xaro Xhoan Daxos.

Edited by Lord Varys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If Corlys Velaryon does turn out to be black then this certainly isn't how things are in the book - but it wouldn't be worse than a black Salladhor Saan or a black Xaro Xhoan Daxos.

I cannot agree with you on this one. Isn't it more easier to make a merchant prince and a pirate black than a feudal lord, who intermarries with the royal family at several points?

Someone who haven't read the books imagine Salladhor Saan as a black pirate, and Xaro as a rich dude half a world away. But how could they imagine black mans as lords of a medieval feudal kingdom? And not only this, but that they're supposed to have valyrian look, the exact opposite. House Velaryon's valyrian origin is what bring them so close to Targaryens to get their hands on dragons. It'd be serious bullshit. 

And Corlys (and his descendants too) will be nowhere near an episode character from far away like Saan was. He will be a major character, not inly in the first seasons, but in the lasts too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The interesting part there is that this seems to indicate we are going to get the Stepstones war as a part of season 1. 

I like calling them “The Pirate Wars.” :D

I know that’s not their official name, but “the war for the Steptones” sounds so...dry, to viewers who haven’t read the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I cannot agree with you on this one. Isn't it more easier to make a merchant prince and a pirate black than a feudal lord, who intermarries with the royal family at several points?

Someone who haven't read the books imagine Salladhor Saan as a black pirate, and Xaro as a rich dude half a world away. But how could they imagine black mans as lords of a medieval feudal kingdom? And not only this, but that they're supposed to have valyrian look, the exact opposite. House Velaryon's valyrian origin is what bring them so close to Targaryens to get their hands on dragons. It'd be serious bullshit. 

And Corlys (and his descendants too) will be nowhere near an episode character from far away like Saan was. He will be a major character, not inly in the first seasons, but in the lasts too.

Why shouldn't a Targaryen marry a black Velaryon? Or why shouldn't Westerosi nobility in general not intermarry with other nobility who happen to be black?

This kind of thing did happen in the real world. Royalty marry other royals/high nobility, not people of this or that skin color.

The idea wouldn't be that Corlys Velaryon is some foreigner but a proper Velaryon by birth. In the show, his mother would be a Summer Islander princess, I imagine, so there wouldn't be that many changes.

And as I said - Salladhor Saan and the Lyseni in general (in addition to the Volantenes and the Maegyrs specifically) all look like Valyrian pricks - which is why making Salla black is basically the same as making Corlys black.

I don't think it is that great an idea to make Corlys black, but it doesn't have to change the story of House Velaryon as such. And also not the stories of his children and grandchildren.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I don’t think they ever actually said TV-Salladhor was from Lys in dialogue.

That may be the case, but we do know that Salladhor Saan is Lysene, so compared to his book counterpart he doesn't look like he is supposed to. There are characters in the books where their looks are recognizable traits - Qartheen, Dothraki, Summer Islanders, Lyseni, Myrmen, certain Dornishmen, etc. - and then there are others who are not really described as being part of a specific collective.

Basically, all Baratheons have to be black-haired, most/all Lannisters should be blond, Targaryens should look Valyrian unless they do not, etc.

But then there are characters like Davos where it is pretty irrelevant what they look like because the story doesn't really mark their looks as being 'important' to the story.

I'd prefer such people to be changed if you want to make changes - not people who are famed for their rather particular family looks.

And to be sure - I think I've said this before - if they ever do a GoT remake I'd make the Targaryens black. That fits better with their origin from the tropical Lands of the Long Summer, their association with fire, etc. Even George slowly comes to that realization. The Targaryens were the first fire people he had in ASoIaF. When he reached Melisandre he went for red hair and red eyes (much more fiery and also a good take for the Targaryens) but his final level seems to be Moqorro who is all black as if he he had been burned.

Those albino looks work much better with Northern folk - the Starks and the wildlings, who would see little to no sun, have long winters, etc. After all, that's also how it is in real life - the fair-skinned, fair-haired people mostly live in northern Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making Daemon Velaryon black in a Conquest show would be a lot like making Illyrio Mopatis black: It doesn't outright violate the established norms of the setting.

Corlys has the added complication of his grandsons' paternity subplot, but on closer inspection there's ways to do that right.

The problem is....this is HBO we're talking about. Or rather, that fans are thinking about; AT&T put a whole new group in charge at HBO. But we're coming off a decade of lies from Benioff & Weiss under Plepler's HBO.  "Fandom goodwill and tolerance" has been totally used up.  

So this is something competent writers could handle decently well.  The issue is...we've been burned for a decade of this. Even the TV hype fans were devastated by the final season's low quality.  So...fans can't be blamed for being skeptical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Making Daemon Velaryon black in a Conquest show would be a lot like making Illyrio Mopatis black: It doesn't outright violate the established norms of the setting.

Corlys has the added complication of his grandsons' paternity subplot, but on closer inspection there's ways to do that right.

The problem is....this is HBO we're talking about. Or rather, that fans are thinking about; AT&T put a whole new group in charge at HBO. But we're coming off a decade of lies from Benioff & Weiss under Plepler's HBO.  "Fandom goodwill and tolerance" has been totally used up.  

So this is something competent writers could handle decently well.  The issue is...we've been burned for a decade of this. Even the TV hype fans were devastated by the final season's low quality.  So...fans can't be blamed for being skeptical.

I completely agree that trust has been broken. Like you said tho, there are ways to do the paternity plot right even with a black Corlys; but if the writing sucks, it sucks and if its great, its great.  Adapting The Dance is not the same as adapting a novel, it reads like a historical document with different versions of the same event being told. It has the effect of giving the writers a complete story, but none of the details and nuance of a novel; which means they will have to fill in those areas. Either way having a black Corlys isn't going to be the problem some are making it out to be imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the paternity plot could work really well with a black Corlys. Just make Rhaenyra's sons by Laenor so white that it doesn't really appear likely that they are the children of Laenor.

But we should also basically forget the idea that the paternity of Laenor's children is going to be 'a secret' in this show.

They will show the marriages of Rhaenyra in great detail - just as they will show the marriage or Viserys-Alicent, Rhaenys-Corlys, Laena-Daemon, etc. - and the chances are very low that we don't know who is fucking who.

Whether this means we'll know who fathered a child is another matter since Rhaenyra could have sex with two or more men around the time any of her sons are conceived, so it might be unclear for that reason.

But if they were to go with Harwin clearly as father of the boys then we are going to get confirmation for that - just as we would if the Strong story is supposed to be slander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Why shouldn't a Targaryen marry a black Velaryon? Or why shouldn't Westerosi nobility in general not intermarry with other nobility who happen to be black?

This kind of thing did happen in the real world. Royalty marry other royals/high nobility, not people of this or that skin color.

The idea wouldn't be that Corlys Velaryon is some foreigner but a proper Velaryon by birth. In the show, his mother would be a Summer Islander princess, I imagine, so there wouldn't be that many changes.

And as I said - Salladhor Saan and the Lyseni in general (in addition to the Volantenes and the Maegyrs specifically) all look like Valyrian pricks - which is why making Salla black is basically the same as making Corlys black.

I don't think it is that great an idea to make Corlys black, but it doesn't have to change the story of House Velaryon as such. And also not the stories of his children and grandchildren.

Why are you ignoring this part of my comment:

 

7 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

And Corlys (and his descendants too) will be nowhere near an episode character from far away like Saan was. He will be a major character, not inly in the first seasons, but in the lasts too.

You're talking about how Lysene should look in a show that focused on Westeros, and doesn't even mention Lys.

But I'll ask again: How does black people fit into medieval white society as nobles? 

How isn't it more important to have accuracy of a major character that's culture is well-known, and being black doesn't fit into that culture, than Salladhor Saan's culture, the culture that doesn't even matter to the actual plot, because it is connected only to an episodic character?? Corlys will be one the main characters in the show.

If they'll began to make Westerosi characters black, then do it with all of them, or I dunno.

Also, why would it make sense for House Velaryon to marry a Summer Islander prince? 

Anyway, I know my opinion cannot be changed on this matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...