Death: A Discussion Thread

[Liffguard]

1 hour ago, Fury Resurrected said:

Early Saturday morning, I had to euthanize Guava because of an aggressive bone tumor in his skull. It was several weeks of watching him deteriorate and keeping a careful eye to when it became too much- the exact scenario I had always feared. I did not want to have to watch him suffer and I did not want to have to choose for him. That was the nightmare for a decade and a half and it’s exactly what happened. I played him Dont Worry Baby by The Beach Boys because I used to sing it to him because he was a nervous cat and I’m sure I’m never going to be able to hear a note from Brian Wilson without crying again.

That's awful, I'm so sorry. A really good friend of mine had to put her cat to sleep last year under very similar circumstances, and it was hard. Balancing giving her cat as much time as possible before quality of life declined too much was an extremely stressful and difficult process for her. I sympathise with having to go through it.

The cat was an older rescue who had previously been abused, and never fully got over her wariness of people. But my friend was able to give her several years of love and care before the end.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Fury Resurrected said:

Death sucks, but more for the ones who are left around, I’m guessing.

Indeed.  Very sorry about Guava.  Considering my age I've been lucky to have not dealt with too much death, I suppose, but I still have with many close to me, and the hardest is easily my childhood dog.  It's been about a decade now and I still often have dreams where she's still alive, or some other weird dream shit about her, and I wake up very sad.

To address..death, I decided at a very early age that I wasn't going to worry about it personally and that's about the only thing I've stayed consistent with my entire life.  Not gonna pretend I'm all zen about it - I do fear death and definitely fear dying.  Even though I was kinda/sorta raised atheist, and nothingness certainly seems to be the most rational and likely outcome, I've never been entirely sold on that and am considerably more open to maybe something else happens.  Or at least I'm the least atheist in my immediate family.  But still, while consciously I can always tell myself death as nothingness is nothing to fear - and why I don't think about it much at all - I'm not gonna lie that subconsciously, or again with dreams, I hold a very basic existential fear of returning to nothingness.

The only conscious worry, though, is inflicting pain on those that care about me.  I accepted a long time ago with the cigarettes and booze I'm gonna go pretty early.  This is one of, although hardly the only, reason I've never really pursued longterm relationships and definitely never expect to have children.  I've tried to make that part clear to my parents, at least.  Most pressingly when my sister got engaged/married a couple years ago I tried to emphasize that's the only one you're gonna get, particularly to my mother. 

I do, though, really hope I outlive my parents, I don't want to do that to them.  Never really gone into depth with them that I'm totally fine only living a relatively short life.  The closest I came was when I turned 25 I happened to be at my parent's house for whatever reason.  Said to my mom, ya know, I guess I'm about a third of the way through my life now, and that sounds just fine to me.  She didn't react well to that, and I was overestimating it.  My sister's confronted me about my unhealthy lifestyle a couple times.  I tell her I'll do my best to make it to 60, but that's the best I got.  She seems more ok with that, at least in comparison.

Ultimately I'm most worried about my brother if I check out earlier than expected.  Anyway, to explain my reasoning, I've never understood the saying life is short.  It seems very long to me already and I'm only 35.  While I have an affinity for those that raise a family it's never been something I've particularly longed for, and more importantly I decidedly think I'd be a very bad father even if I led a perfectly healthy lifestyle.  I try to help people by putting to use my abilities the best way I know how, but other than that I'm gonna enjoy life the way I want to even if it kills me.  I guess that's selfish, but oh well.  The old quote "you don't actually live longer, it just seems longer."

[A True Kaniggit]

On 12/24/2020 at 5:26 AM, DMC said:

Never really gone into depth with them that I'm totally fine only living a relatively short life.  The closest I came was when I turned 25 I happened to be at my parent's house for whatever reason.  Said to my mom, ya know, I guess I'm about a third of the way through my life now, and that sounds just fine to me.  She didn't react well to that, and I was overestimating it.  My sister's confronted me about my unhealthy lifestyle a couple times.  I tell her I'll do my best to make it to 60, but that's the best I got.  She seems more ok with that, at least in comparison.

This sounds like the joke I started using around my family about the same time. 25 or so.

"Oh no, I've hit my mid-life crisis. Guess the math means I only go until 50". 

They were not that amused.

[HexMachina]

I am an atheist, I don’t believe in afterlife or rebirth, i think dead is dead and once we die we just stop. I’m not scared of dying and have a complicated past with SH and suicide to the point where there have been times where the opposite is true (i.e. i am scared of living). 

That being said, my nanna was Catholic, and so her funeral was a Catholic service and i took a strange...comfort in the rituals a ceremony of the funeral service. The hymns are bullshit speech i could leave but something about the rituals relaxed me and finally let me cry and let my grief out properly for the first time since she had died

[Whitestripe]

So yeah, my dad died unexpectedly 13 days ago.  In the grand irony of it all, he had cardiac arrest on the sidewalk walking into his cardiologist’s office (for a routine check up, even.) He had a DNR, but my mom, who was too shocked and overwhelmed to process anything didn’t tell the EMT’s. Mom has early dementia. What that means is she’s outwardly fine, but cannot make decisions and cannot process anything not part of her routine. Seeing her husband of 56 years collapse on the sidewalk without a pulse was definitely not part of her routine.  She was not allowed in the ambulance (COVID), so she went home and called my sister, who called me. We could not get any concrete info out of Mom. The ER wouldn’t  talk to us. Eventually, I get a phone call from the ER “Hello, this is Dr McXxxx. Your father was brought in this morning with cardiac arrest, but we were able to get a pulse back. He had a second incident here in the ER, but we administered CPR again. We have him on a ventilator, but there are signs of brain damamge. I understand your mother has memory problems and she has told us you are the power of attorney...” My father and I weren’t particularly close and I knew without a shadow of a doubt what he wanted,  but it’s heart wrenching to have to say “He had a DNR, please do what you can to make him comfortable and let him pass.” It’s  even worse to have to call your mother and tell her that no, there really isn’t anything that can be done. (She knew that he emphatically did NOT want to be kept alive, but she could not bring herself to say the words.) All this over the phone from across the country.  My dad had a DNR, a living will, and power of attorney, and there was still confusion over what to do in a medical emergency. He’s been cremated, as planned. He said he wanted his ashes scattered in Lake Mead. My mom says she wants to keep them in an urn. I say let her have them. He’s not around any more to care and she never got to say goodbye. 

[Fury Resurrected]

22 minutes ago, Whitestripe said:

So yeah, my dad died unexpectedly 13 days ago.  In the grand irony of it all, he had cardiac arrest on the sidewalk walking into his cardiologist’s office (for a routine check up, even.) He had a DNR, but my mom, who was too shocked and overwhelmed to process anything didn’t tell the EMT’s. Mom has early dementia. What that means is she’s outwardly fine, but cannot make decisions and cannot process anything not part of her routine. Seeing her husband of 56 years collapse on the sidewalk without a pulse was definitely not part of her routine.  She was not allowed in the ambulance (COVID), so she went home and called my sister, who called me. We could not get any concrete info out of Mom. The ER wouldn’t  talk to us. Eventually, I get a phone call from the ER “Hello, this is Dr McXxxx. Your father was brought in this morning with cardiac arrest, but we were able to get a pulse back. He had a second incident here in the ER, but we administered CPR again. We have him on a ventilator, but there are signs of brain damamge. I understand your mother has memory problems and she has told us you are the power of attorney...” My father and I weren’t particularly close and I knew without a shadow of a doubt what he wanted,  but it’s heart wrenching to have to say “He had a DNR, please do what you can to make him comfortable and let him pass.” It’s  even worse to have to call your mother and tell her that no, there really isn’t anything that can be done. (She knew that he emphatically did NOT want to be kept alive, but she could not bring herself to say the words.) All this over the phone from across the country.  My dad had a DNR, a living will, and power of attorney, and there was still confusion over what to do in a medical emergency. He’s been cremated, as planned. He said he wanted his ashes scattered in Lake Mead. My mom says she wants to keep them in an urn. I say let her have them. He’s not around any more to care and she never got to say goodbye. 

So sorry, this must be terrible

[Whitestripe]

9 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

So sorry, this must be terrible

Thank you  Chats and Fury. It does sort of suck. I did not post to bring everyone down.  My dad 100% had his shit together in terms of what he wanted, plus he had a will and trusts and contingencies to the eyeballs. This does make it easier, but it still blindsides you.   

[Xray the Enforcer]

I am so sorry for your loss and for the challenges you've had to handle @Whitestripe. I went through a related kind of trauma with my dad and his DNR, and I know how brutal it can be. Sending you a ton of love. 

And @Fury Resurrected I am so incredibly sorry to hear about Guava. He was a really good boy. Sending so much love to you as well. 

[Whitestripe]

11 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

I am so sorry for your loss and for the challenges you've had to handle @Whitestripe. I went through a related kind of trauma with my dad and his DNR, and I know how brutal it can be. Sending you a ton of love. 

 

Thank you. I remember how terribly draining your father’s death was for you and your family. 

[Iskaral Pust]

@Whitestripe I am very sorry to hear your dad passed away.  The suddenness must be an extra shock too.  I don’t know what it means for your mom living with dementia, but best of luck with that too.

My father-in-law has become a bedridden invalid these past few months.  He refuses any further medical treatment or even evaluation, and regularly (somewhat dramatically) declares himself to be on his deathbed.  But it has been a pretty protracted deathbed so far, and he seems to enjoy being waited upon in the meantime.  We’ve been supporting my MIL from a distance all this time, but they’ve been very cautious about COVID isolation which has hampered our options for care support.  They don’t want us or anyone traveling to visit them until a COVID vaccine is available.  We’re still planning to move them into our house in 2021, as soon as a vaccine makes travel safe for them.  But I have no idea what it will mean to have my FIL living with us in our house as he approaches his final days.  That’s more of a front row seat than I wanted my son to have at his age, but somethings cannot be controlled.

[Alarich II]

4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

But I have no idea what it will mean to have my FIL living with us in our house as he approaches his final days.  That’s more of a front row seat than I wanted my son to have at his age, but somethings cannot be controlled.

My paternal grandmother died in our home when I was 20, so my younger brother was 9 at the time and my sisters between 13 and 18; she came to us after a stroke and her condition deteriorated over 4 years with several smaller strokes (heavy smoker), the last 18 months she was in bed, barely able to talk, only wanting to die. I remember having to take her to the toilet, helping he with wiping an everything, when I was 19. Certainly not something that's very comfortable, otoh not a great emotional trauma either. My younger brother never had to do anything of the like, but he was present when she died. He turned out alright, although he's not much of a talker wrt emotions. 

My grandmother was cremated, like her husband, the ashes cast into the Baltic Sea, because she grew up on the shores of the Baltic Sea near Pärnu (Estonia). She never felt quite at home in Germany, but her childhood home was gone, too, so she felt that it would make no sense to be buried in a graveyard without any ancestral roots. 

My maternal grandmother died 4 years ago of a very agressive bowel cancer, which took her from driving around, running her own silviculture business and being very active to the grave within 3 months at the age of 83. She wanted to try a light chemo to fight a little longer, but the side effect were such that she refused further treatment after the first week, brought all her things in order, said goodbye to all of us, her children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren, gave away some last personal gifts and shortly after, the pain medication was on such a high dose that she was only semi to non-conscious until she passed away.

She was the last of my grandparents and I feel that with her passing, an era ended, because she was - through the stories of her childhood - the last living connection to a very different time, culture and environment. She was buried in the family crypt of my grandfathers family, which is a small kind of private cemetary in the forest close to the ancestral castle of my grandfathers family. It's nice to have some kind of rallying point not only for the close family, but also for the extended family that is spread all over Germany and the world. My grandfather and later my grandmother did install a small family museum which is basically a collection of some items they could rescue, some documents, pictures and paintings which document the family history in this very small lusatian village and its surroundings.

So my maternal grandparents are still very much there and although they are dead, they have become part of a family story that's still in the process of being told. When I visit the crypt with my kids, the family history, her life and my grandfathers, becomes something tangible and perhaps relevant to them. Whereas for my paternal grandmother, death felt much more like the end of a story, she was the only one of four children to have children of her own and apart from names, a few trinkets and saved documents, there is nothing tangible left of her, of her families history, not even a grave. 

When I think of dying and death, these two different deaths and dying processes are something I always think of. 

[Ormond]

I know this may not be completely relevant to this thread but there didn't seem to be another place I thought would be good to put this.

I just learned that my favorite first cousin, who was 74, died last night of a Neuroendocrine Tumor, a rare form of cancer. She wasn't properly diagnosed with this until a couple of weeks ago. 

As some of you may remember my mother died on April 2. The older brother of the cousin who died yesterday himself died unexpectedly at the beginning of May (no one has said of what) and his first wife, who still had good relations with many in my family despite their being divorced decades ago, died November 12. I know that most of this is just because I am now old enough myself that relatives and friends will be dying regularly, but today it just seems like Cousin Dottie dying 4 hours before the end of 2020 was just the awful capstone to a truly horrible year. 

[TheLastWolf]

Richard Pryor is the only better stand up comic ever 

[TheLastWolf]

My close friend ended his life with 6 feet of rope and a ceiling fan. He was 17. Family problems. Had his whole life in front of him. Fucking life ain't fair. Was one of the most cheerful persons i knew. Well at least he's gone to a better place. That's why we say Rest in Peace. He was also a bit of a prick at times. He wouldn't have wanted everyone to just highlight his merits at the time of his death. It wouldn't have been right.

Life is meaningless, yet beautiful. And cruel. Crazy. Wonderful. Fucked up. All the negative elements stem from the Homo Sapiens population explosion. Fuck 

[Ormond]

I guess this thread is the appropriate place to post this link to a news article about the obituary of a man I didn't know, but the story seems rather amazing. I think his wife who wrote the obituary is pretty amazing, too.

Omaha mom's gut-wrenching, gut-busting obit of her husband resonates with online readers | Local News | omaha.com

[Liffguard]

I guess it's appropriate this thread got resurrected. My nan was found unconscious on the weekend by the lady who delivers her meals. She's in hospital now with a perforated bowel. The doctors have decided all that can be done is palliative care. She's 99, and had a long, fulfilling life, and was still in touch with her whole family all the way down to great-grandchildren. After my grandfather died she stubbornly insisted on living independently up until the very end and never let anyone push her around. I'm going to go see her tomorrow, hopefully before it's too late.

She nearly lived a century, remained mobile, cognisant and independent, and will die peacefully surrounded by her children and grandchildren. As far as deaths go, that's the best any of us can reasonably hope for. But it still fucking sucks.

[A True Kaniggit]

Damn. A coworker's daughter died in a car accident while she was on the phone with her. The phone went silent, and after 30 minutes of no response she drove to the area and found the wreck.

[A True Kaniggit]

With recent events I'm rebooting Death: A Discussion Thread. 

 

Specifically to talk about a topic that was touched upon by a couple posters in the first two pages, but never discussed in depth.

How would you handle the death of someone you REALLY cared about?

 

A little while ago a coworker lost her daughter in a car accident. And for the last week she has been completely shut down.

How well do you think you would handle such a sudden tragedy that resulted in the lost of a loved one?

 

To be honest with myself, I have no idea. I'd like to think I'd stay rational.

Between the extended family, two Emergency Department positions, a Bone Marrow Transplant clinic, and Afghanistan....... in my 30 years of life I have seen a lot of death.

But none of that was ever really personal.

I'd like to think I could hold it together if either my baby sister or her daughter died. I've done mental exercises to do so.

But who could say how I'd actually react?

[Starkess]

Sometimes I think about what I would do if my boyfriend died and I know for sure I'd be completely irrational and nonfunctional. Probably for a very very long time.

Probably the closest death I've experienced was having a not-that-close friend die in college (motorcycle accident), and that was pretty rough for me. I was in (unrelated) therapy at the time and I remember going over with my therapist how guilty I felt because the people who were actually close friends with him seemed to be coping with it better than I was.

So yeah, hear that boyfriend, you better not die!

[Liffguard]

21 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

With recent events I'm rebooting Death: A Discussion Thread. 

 

Specifically to talk about a topic that was touched upon by a couple posters in the first two pages, but never discussed in depth.

How would you handle the death of someone you REALLY cared about?

 

A little while ago a coworker lost her daughter in a car accident. And for the last week she has been completely shut down.

How well do you think you would handle such a sudden tragedy that resulted in the lost of a loved one?

 

To be honest with myself, I have no idea. I'd like to think I'd stay rational.

Between the extended family, two Emergency Department positions, a Bone Marrow Transplant clinic, and Afghanistan....... in my 30 years of life I have seen a lot of death.

But none of that was ever really personal.

I'd like to think I could hold it together if either my baby sister or her daughter died. I've done mental exercises to do so.

But who could say how I'd actually react?

My mum died earlier this year and, well, I'm still in the process of dealing with it, and will be for a while. I was a wreck for a couple of days, but got back to being functional pretty quickly after that. My family - my dad really - never really went in for overt displays of emotion, and I've internalised the expectation of just getting on with things and keeping my feelings private. That's no way to live, so I'm seeing a therapist and trying to come to terms and deal with what happened rather than just repressing it. Limited success so far, but I'm keeping at it.

The thing is, she was very ill for a long time, so her death wasn't really a surprise. On the other hand she'd been dealing with the illness for so long, that I just kind of assumed she'd always be able to keep dealing with it. Obviously that could only be true for so long.

Unfortunately, my other Nan is also not doing well now either, and is on palliative care. 2021 can go fuck itself.