Who will be our POV for Euron?

[TheLastWolf]

9 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Really unlikely, George doesn't want any king POVs

There's a first time for everything... 

8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Let's put Sam Tarley in more jeopardy.  

I Guiltily second the motion 

[Mister Smikes]

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

Let's put Sam Tarley in more jeopardy.  

Too late, maybe?  When we last saw Sam, he was being "put to bed" by a faceless man.  When we next see Sam, I'm guessing it will be in someone else's POV.   And sadly, I'm guessing it will turn out not to be Sam.

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Too late, maybe?  When we last saw Sam, he was being "put to bed" by a faceless man.  When we next see Sam, I'm guessing it will be in someone else's POV.   And sadly, I'm guessing it will turn out not to be Sam.

"I know this man." I'm not sure that the Alchemist can kill him or that he was given Sam's name.  Or that Pate/Alchemist is taking orders from Marwyn.  To paraphrase, Marwyn tells Sam to learn what he needs to learn quickly and to that end, Pate/Alchemist has been given instructions.  The FM still has the key that will unlock any door, including the secret places of the library, where forbidden knowledge is kept.  Sam has been warned not disclose what he told Marwyn to anyone else or he could lose his life.

Sam has been bound to secret before by Coldhands, who makes him swear three times not to disclose that Bran lives.  In exchange for the three lives Coldhands has saved.   This is very much the same form of death for life payment that the FM employ.

Sam is also saved from drowning in the canals of Braavos by Arya.   I suspect that the FM is there to aid Sam rather than end him.  Sam still has to bumble his way to information about the horn he carries, among other things.

Marwyn's warning to work fast implies to me that the Citadel will fall to Euron and both Sarella and Sam will escape with Pate's help.

Of course, uncertainty principles apply.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not sure that the Alchemist can kill him or that he was given Sam's name. 

Fake Pate knows all about Sam.  He was present when Sam spilled his guts to Marwyn, holding back nothing except (on Jon's orders) that he was a coward.  There will therefore be a flaw in Fake Pate's impersonation of "Sam the Slayer".

Quote

Or that Pate/Alchemist is taking orders from Marwyn. 

I don't know who is taking orders from whom.  But they are in league.  Marwyn would not have allowed Pate the Pig Boy to be present at his interrogation of Sam.

Quote

To paraphrase, Marwyn tells Sam to learn what he needs to learn quickly and to that end,

Well, yes.  Sam asks and Marwyn answers.  But on the other hand, it is best not to make it too obvious to an intended victim that you intend to kill them.

Quote

Pate/Alchemist has been given instructions.  The FM still has the key that will unlock any door, including the secret places of the library, where forbidden knowledge is kept. 

I'm inclined to assume that this has already been done.  Now, on top of this, this Cabal has Aemon's kingsblood corpse, Gilly's kingsblood baby, and Aemon's books of occult dragon lore.  And Marwyn seems to think it is time to catch the Cinnamon Wind, and head elsewhere.  And perhaps the other two will go with him.  The Cabal is through with Oldtown.  They've got what they want, and now they are going elsewhere to put it to bad use.  

Quote

Sam has been warned not disclose what he told Marwyn to anyone else or he could lose his life.

Sure, but again, one does not make it too obvious to a victim that you plan to kill them.  And this does tend to confirm that Marwyn wants Sam silenced.   This advice helps Sam keep silent and cooperative in the short time between the interview and the time he is lured to a deserted tower on a island in the river.  By the time Sam wakes up next morning, and starts to wonder why he should follow Marwyn's instructions and not Aemon's instructions, it will be too late.  Because Sam will not be waking up in the morning, and his faceless corpse will be floating down the river.

Quote

Marwyn's warning to work fast implies to me that the Citadel will fall to Euron and both Sarella and Sam will escape with Pate's help.

I don't expect Euron to attack Oldtown at all.  Euron's destination is Slaver's Bay.

Quote

Of course, uncertainty principles apply.

Sure.  But it always seems to surprise me how nobody even seems to realize that Sam is in any danger -- that FEAST ended on a cliffhanger with a faceless assassin about to put Sam "to bed".

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Sure.  But it always seems to surprise me how nobody even seems to realize that Sam is in any danger -- that FEAST ended on a cliffhanger with a faceless assassin about to put Sam "to bed".

We are far apart on this one.   We'll have to disagree on being put to bed and whether Sam is going to bite the dust at this point.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

We are far apart on this one.   We'll have to disagree on being put to bed and whether Sam is going to bite the dust at this point.

Okay.  But it's not about "going to".   If he's dead he has died already.  Three characters, Brienne, Jaime and Sam, had POV runs that apparently came to an end in FEAST/DANCE.  All 3 had cliffhangers, and then the timeline moved past them without our learning what happened to them in their own POV.  No Sam chapters occurred in the post-FEAST parts of DANCE.  No Sam POVs have been rumored for WINDS.  GRRM told a French newspaper that he planned about 13 POVs for WINDS, which maybe just an estimate, but even so it is hard to explain if these 3 POVs (or at least some of them) have not ceased.

Which does not necessarily mean these characters are dead.   What it suggests is that GRRM wants to bring the threads of the story together.  From now on, I expect we will learn of these characters from other POVS, just as we have always learned of Sandor from other POVs.  And it will be up to these other characters to try to figure out if these characters are alive or dead or zombies or faceless-assassin dopplegangers.

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

And it will be up to these other characters to try to figure out if these characters are alive or dead or zombies or faceless-assassin dopplegangers.

Well he has set up a cliff-hanger that seems to put Sam in danger.  But why would the FM want to pose as Sam when the Alchemist is already posing as Pate?  

[BlackLightning]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Well he has set up a cliff-hanger that seems to put Sam in danger.  But why would the FM want to pose as Sam when the Alchemist is already posing as Pate?  

Exactly! It doesn't make sense.

As it stands, Pate is more useful to the Alchemist than Sam is.

Sam Tarly is alive. He just needs to watch his back.

I maintain that Aeron will be our first POV for Euron and then Sam will take over. Eventually, I believe Cersei and/or Jaime will serve as POVs for Euron. And then after the Lannister twins, I believe Euron will be defeated by either Dany, Bran or a combination of both. So the last POV for Euron would either be Dany or Bran

[Mister Smikes]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

Well he has set up a cliff-hanger that seems to put Sam in danger.  But why would the FM want to pose as Sam when the Alchemist is already posing as Pate?  

That begs the question of why, after months as Pate, he would want to still be Pate.  What has he still to achieve as Pate that he was unable to achieve over the last several months as Pate?

Seems that Marwyn was waiting for Sam.  Now that Marwyn has intercepted Sam, and got what he wanted from him, and asked a pair of assassins to put Sam to bed, Marwyn is off somewhere on the Cinnamon Wind with all of Sam's stuff, including a kingsblood baby and a pickled kingsblood corpse for some blood-magic human sacrifice ritual.   My guess is that Marwyn and his 2 buddies are going where the action is, which is going to be elsewhere now.  Probably somewhere where other POV characters are, because GRRM says he is trying to bring the threads of the story together.  Or maybe Marwyn will go one place and the FM will go somewhere else.  But once the FM leaves Oldtown, why would he still want to be Pate?

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

As it stands, Pate is more useful to the Alchemist than Sam is.

What use is Pate to the Alchemist?  You talk as if you know more than I do.

[alienarea]

I wouldn't mind a captured Damphair witnessing Euron dying in the next chapter. 

[LynnS]

12 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

That begs the question of why, after months as Pate, he would want to still be Pate.  What has he still to achieve as Pate that he was unable to achieve over the last several months as Pate?

I think the question is how does Sam advance the story beyond this point and how will Sarella and the Alchemist help or hinder him.

[Mister Smikes]

9 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I think the question is how does Sam advance the story beyond this point and how will Sarella and the Alchemist help or hinder him.

A major factor preventing the story from advancing is the fragmented nature of the story.  Too many POVs in too many places.  We simply don't have time for the Hogwarts-style Citadel adventures of Sammy Tarly & Friends.

One way Sam can advance the story is by dropping out of the story until he can appear in the POV of other more-central characters.   And I'm guessing he may have already done that.

Another way Sam can advance the story is (for instance - and alot of this is guesswork) by delivering a kingsblood baby to an evil blood magician, so that fAegon's friends in the Reach may wake the stone dragon, so that fAegon can use a dragon to conquer Storms End (we still don't know how fAegon did this) and so GRRM can set the stage for a Second Dance of the Dragons, involving dragons under the control of multiple factions.  Of course Sam has already delivered the kingsblood baby (etc.) to Marwyn.  So however this blood magic ritual advances the story, Sam has already achieved it.

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

We simply don't have time for the Hogwarts-style Citadel adventures of Sammy Tarly & Friends.

Please don't use this smarty-pants tone when you are talking to me.  It's disrespectful and I don't like it.  There is nothing Hogwarts-style about it.  I think we are done.

[Mister Smikes]

13 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Please don't use this smarty-pants tone when you are talking to me.  It's disrespectful and I don't like it.  There is nothing Hogwarts-style about it.  I think we are done.

I have not been rude to you at all.  But you have just been extremely rude to me.  I was expressing my honest opinion, while trying to make an honest point.  The Hogwarts books are long books, which was my point.   There is a limit to what GRRM has time for if he has any hope of advancing the story.  You don't owe me a discussion, but next time you bow out, do so with better grace.

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I have not been rude to you at all.  But you have just been extremely rude to me.  I was expressing my honest opinion, while trying to make an honest point.  The Hogwarts books are long books, which was my point.   There is a limit to what GRRM has time for if he has any hope of advancing the story.  You don't owe me a discussion, but next time you bow out, do so with better grace.

 Your honest opinion includes that big chip on your shoulder.  It shows up whenever someone disagrees with your opinion.   Take your own advice.

[Mister Smikes]

13 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 Your honest opinion includes that big chip on your shoulder.  

It's my honest opinion.   But you'd rather discuss my flaws as a human being.

[TheLastWolf]

Chill guys

Euron is definitely NOT worth fighting over 

[Mister Smikes]

On 4/6/2021 at 8:58 AM, TheLastWolf said:

Chill guys

Euron is definitely NOT worth fighting over 

What would you rather fight about?

[TheLastWolf]

8 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

What would you rather fight about?

C'moooooonnnn! 

 

Obvious bro... 

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Dany fanatics/fervent worshippers and irrational Stark/anything North haters  

 

 

Ciao