Who will be our POV for Euron?

[BlackLightning]

On 4/5/2021 at 8:14 PM, Mister Smikes said:

What use is Pate to the Alchemist?  You talk as if you know more than I do.

I'm sorry for coming across as a know-it-all or rude. But a bird in hand is worth two birds in the bush.

Pate is already dead and the Alchemist has already taken his face. Why would he need to kill Sam and steal his identity when he already has Pate's life and identity? Pate was also a familiar face at the Citadel whereas Sam is completely new; Pate's status as a familiar face gives the Alchemist legs that Sam can't.

At least at first.

[Mister Smikes]

On 4/14/2021 at 2:26 PM, BlackLightning said:

I'm sorry for coming across as a know-it-all or rude. But a bird in hand is worth two birds in the bush.

Pate is already dead and the Alchemist has already taken his face. Why would he need to kill Sam and steal his identity when he already has Pate's life and identity? Pate was also a familiar face at the Citadel whereas Sam is completely new; Pate's status as a familiar face gives the Alchemist legs that Sam can't.

At least at first.

The Alchemist killed Pate and took his face some months earlier.  I assume that was of some use to the Alchemist, but I'm not sure exactly what.  But it is hardly self evident that Pate is so supremely useful to the Alchemist, that the Alchemist plans to remain Pate forever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

You however seem quite certain that several months as Pate are not enough time for the Alchemist to achieve whatever he hoped to achieve as Pate.  You also seem certain that the Alchemist's future goals involve remaining at the Citadel indefinitely.

So again, what do you know that I don't?

 

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 4/10/2021 at 10:34 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Spoiler

Dany fanatics/fervent worshippers and irrational Stark/anything North haters  

 

How dare you impugn the honor of our good Queen Daenerys. 

[TheLastWolf]

48 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How dare you impugn the honor of our good Queen Daenerys!  

You mean god... 

[Jaenara Belarys]

5 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

You mean god... 

Ah, yes, exactly. Bow down to the rightful queen (Unless Jon is a Targaryen Snowstark).

[divica]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:26 PM, BlackLightning said:

I'm sorry for coming across as a know-it-all or rude. But a bird in hand is worth two birds in the bush.

Pate is already dead and the Alchemist has already taken his face. Why would he need to kill Sam and steal his identity when he already has Pate's life and identity? Pate was also a familiar face at the Citadel whereas Sam is completely new; Pate's status as a familiar face gives the Alchemist legs that Sam can't.

At least at first.

Actualy, given that a faceless man seemed to want to go to the wall in book 2 maybe this one can be interested in taking advantage of sam's status within the NW and take his place.

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, divica said:

Actualy, given that a faceless man seemed to want to go to the wall in book 2 maybe this one can be interested in taking advantage of sam's status within the NW and take his place.

Or......Castle Black has all those books. Some of those books are not owned by the citadel, and the library is said to have Valyrian scrolls. We know that the Valyrians were sorcerers, so.......

[divica]

Just now, Jaenara Belarys said:

Or......Castle Black has all those books. Some of those books are not owned by the citadel, and the library is said to have Valyrian scrolls. We know that the Valyrians were sorcerers, so.......

Another good reason to want to get sam's face!

[Jaenara Belarys]

7 minutes ago, divica said:

Another good reason to want to get sam's face!

But Jaqen in aCoK..... how is he supposed to know about the library or Sam? Sure, he can find out as Pate...but he doesn't know as Jaqen.

[divica]

15 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

But Jaqen in aCoK..... how is he supposed to know about the library or Sam? Sure, he can find out as Pate...but he doesn't know as Jaqen.

If they are searching for a specif book why can't the the order of the faceless men want to send one of their men to search for books in the NW? Sam would only be an oportune target to get to the books if they aren't at the citadel.

[Ivashanko]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:02 PM, BlackLightning said:

That's a very good idea. I love it.

I can see it happening. We've already gotten some major hints that Euron is a skinchanger. My head canon is that Euron was Bloodraven's original candidate to be the next Three-Eyed-Crow but something happened, Euron was deemed ineligible and Bran was chosen.

I like the idea of Euron being mortal enemies of both Daenerys and Bran. Adds to the ice and fire theme. And it makes him that much more dangerous to the rest of the world. Who wants an evil, twisted man like Euron to become the Three-Eyed-Crow, knowing that he would basically become omnipresent, omniscient and maybe even omnipotent.

I think Victarion will make it to A Dream of Spring. I think he won't make it past his third or fourth chapter in A Dream of Spring. But he'll survive The Winds of Winter.

Think about it. Daenerys has to destroy the entire system of slavery. She can't do that without conquering and/or subjugating all of Essos. Daenerys has a massive army but it's all land-based. She (and we) need Victarion not only for transportation but to take the cities of Lys and Tyrosh and to bend the knees of the pirates of the Stepstones. I'm sure Yi-Ti and Asshai and the other nations east of the Bone Mountains will abolish slavery and pay homage to her without too much effort on her part. But Lys? Tyrosh? Myr? Pentos?

A slave rebellion will work in Volantis or Norvos. It won't work in Lys, Myr or Tyrosh where the free outnumber the enslaved. And it won't work in Pentos where the ratio of free versus slave is almost equal.

Since we don't have the time or the pages for Daenerys to go to every Free City and since GRRM is a writer who "shows, not tells," Victarion will be the POV we need to see the fall of Lys.

Besides, we have to go to Lys anyways. Not only are Jorah's ex-wife and Edric Storm there, but it's the birthplace of Varys...allegedly. GRRM promised us that we would know the truth about Varys in A Dream of Spring and I feel we can't do that without paying Lys of visit. There's also a lot of pureblood descendants of Valyrians there which would address some other ongoing subplots regarding the Doom and the Targaryen dynasty.

I suspect none of that will happen and Danny's anti slavery crusade will basically be dropped as her efforts in Slaver's Bay come to naught.

[BlackLightning]

5 hours ago, Ivashanko said:

I suspect none of that will happen and Danny's anti slavery crusade will basically be dropped as her efforts in Slaver's Bay come to naught.

If that happens, a lot of people will be upset. Because then everything Dany (and therefore Barristan and Tyrion) has done since A Storm of Swords has been filler and that her plotline in A Storm of Swords itself was just a story that went nowhere.

That would piss a lot of people off

[Ivashanko]

31 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

If that happens, a lot of people will be upset. Because then everything Dany (and therefore Barristan and Tyrion) has done since A Storm of Swords has been filler and that her plotline in A Storm of Swords itself was just a story that went nowhere.

That would piss a lot of people off

Not necessarily. GRRM could connect Dany's failure to play saviour with her looming descent into darkness. She tries to save Slavers' Bay, and they spit in her face. She then tries to break the wheel, and the sporks complain they like where they are. It's one option of many that could connect what's happened in Essos with what will happen in Westeros.

But one thing I'm sure about is that GRRM does not have enough books left to detail the subjugation and conquest of an entire continent, and Dany has business in Westeros she must attend to.

[BlackLightning]

20 minutes ago, Ivashanko said:

Not necessarily. GRRM could connect Dany's failure to play saviour with her looming descent into darkness. She tries to save Slavers' Bay, and they spit in her face. She then tries to break the wheel, and the sporks complain they like where they are. It's one option of many that could connect what's happened in Essos with what will happen in Westeros.

But one thing I'm sure about is that GRRM does not have enough books left to detail the subjugation and conquest of an entire continent, and Dany has business in Westeros she must attend to.

I disagree: she can spend The Winds of Winter  subjugating an entire continent and then she can move on to Westeros in A Dream of Spring

And since there are 3-4 other POVs in Essos, I don't understand the argument that "GRRM does not have enough books left to detail the subjugation and conquest of an entire continent." You have 4-5 POVs to tell that story.

 

But why do you think Dany will be a villain by the end of the series? Because the TV show did it?

[Ivashanko]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:20 PM, BlackLightning said:

I disagree: she can spend The Winds of Winter  subjugating an entire continent and then she can move on to Westeros in A Dream of Spring

And since there are 3-4 other POVs in Essos, I don't understand the argument that "GRRM does not have enough books left to detail the subjugation and conquest of an entire continent." You have 4-5 POVs to tell that story.

 

But why do you think Dany will be a villain by the end of the series? Because the TV show did it?

 

One book isn't enough to detail the subjugation of a massive continent in anywhere near enough detail. If GRRM tries to depict this, he will be forced to take massive shortcuts. Now, granted, Essos isn't the most fleshed out of areas, but Dany taking it all in the span of a book* defies belief. It is a huge continent after all! Even if you're just talking about its Western half it is huge.

The number of POVs left in Essos doesn't matter nearly as much as the number of pages GRRM has unless he wants to publish three more books instead of two.

And yes, I find it extremely likely that the showrunners took the major plot beats directly from GRRM. They butchered them, but I suspect they'll remain in the books. Iirc they've directly confirmed this, so the only way Dany doesn't become a villain GRRM decided to completely rework his story.

Now, I could see Dany taking individual cities on her journey West. I wouldn't be surprised if she gives the fat man a visit. But the entire slave holding continent? I find that less likely.

*Unless there is a large time jump or the book takes place over many years, both of which I find unlikely