Canadian Politics: Is that a Light at the End of the Tunnel?

[Fragile Bird]

45 minutes ago, maarsen said:

I grew up in the 60s and heard stories about the kids in the Catholic school system. I guess that was one reason they didn't get funded as well as the public system.  They would then be under the same standards regarding corporal punishment and teacher qualifications. I was an atheist before my teen years so I really am glad I went through the public system.

Please don't spout such absolute utter nonsense. The Catholic school system got less money in Ontario because Protestants ran the province, and Catholic children didn't deserve the same kind of money Protestant children received. On top of that the British North America Act only provided for educating Catholics up to grade 8, so high schools got no money until finally in the 60s they dribbled a few bucks on Catholic high schools. I certainly heard some vicious stories from the kids who went to public school as well. And let's not even talk about the fact you couldn't get a job at Ontario Hydro, and they were damn good paying jobs, originally unless you were a Protestant and later unless you had a relative working there, or you worked on a Conservative MPP's election campaign. When I was a teen the adults still talked about the fact that if you were a Catholic police officer in the province you'd never get higher than desk sergeant. There's a reason why the Ontario government finally got pushed into creating a provincial Bill of Rights.

I don't know if they pulled the same stunt in reverse in Quebec, where the public school system was Catholic and it was the private school system that was Protestant, but I'm pretty sure the provinces west of Ontario underfunded Catholic schools as well. 

Among the various interviews I've watched on the CBC I heard one reporter talk about how Manitoba got taken over by Orangemen and Masons who planned to run the province as a Protestant domain. One of the first things the provincial government did after joining Canada in the 1890s was to essentially abolish Catholic schools, telling Catholics they had to pay for their own schools. The issue is wrapped up with anti-French sentiment, since most of the Catholics were French speaking and Metis, while the English speakers were Protestants who moved in from Ontario. Manitoba joined Canada as a bilingual province, but within a few years the provincial government passed a law declaring the only official language was English. Manitoba basically tried stamping out the French Language and Catholicism in the province. French wasn't taught in schools until the 1940s, as a "foreign language". The basic abolishment of Catholic schools caused a constitutional crisis, called "The Manitoba School Question", and the eventual resolution (after court cases went all the way to the Privy Council) was to allow 30 minutes of religious education in schools. Manitoba even passed a law forbidding municipalities from helping any school outside the public system. In Ontario, for example, you could choose your taxes to be directed to the separate school system.

In any event, the federal government seriously under-funded schools for indigenous people. All those stories about how the nuns and priests starved the children? Well, what do you expect when the federal government literally paid starvation-level amounts to run the schools. This is underfunding that has been going on to the present day. It's the Trudeau government that has finally been responding to the issue, directed of course by the courts after lawsuits were brought.

[Fragile Bird]

@SerHaHa yeah, that's really interesting. I went to Catholic grade schools and high schools in Toronto, and while there were some teachers, both nuns and lay persons, who were very strict, I never saw anything even vaguely as horrible as what you talk about.

I have some theories about how this happened, half about the Canadian public as a whole and half about the people who became nuns and priests.

First of all, with time I've grown to realize that hating indigenous people is as Canadian as maple syrup. I think I mentioned previously that when the CBC was covering various hearings, the Missing and Murdered inquiry and the Residential Schools inquiry, they literally had to shut off all comments on stories because what was being posted was so vile and full of hatred it couldn't be tolerated. These were not comments being posted by nuns and priests. And this was just in the last 10 years. If there's anything that unites Canada from sea to sea, it's hatred.

Secondly, with the way schools were run, I always hear people saying "these were nuns and priests, they're supposed to be better than the rest of us".  Well, nice thought, but I think they were Canadians who reflected exactly who we were and are. And for crying out loud, these weren't holy people who went to the churches to be angels, these were men and women who went to the church to get a job. I once heard an Irish priest say, if you grew up in the 50s and didn't know what else to do, you went to the church. I'm pretty sure the same thing happened in my historic homeland, Poland, and I bet the same was true in Canada. But more than that, these were people who were told that their role was to wipe out the Indian in the Indian. Did you see the video of the idiot who was appointed the new minister of native affairs (not sure of his title) in Manitoba? He tried to explain that the folks who created the residential school system genuinely thought that what they were doing was in the best interests of native people. Genocide, but good genocide! 

I actually don't think being cruel to children was unique to these schools. But I think the extent of what happened reflects the fact that indigenous children were simply unimportant. I'll point out a modern day equivalent. There was a gymnastics coach in the US who trained young women and abused many of them over the years. The Inspector General for the FBI just released a report about the way the FBI investigated the complaints. It's pretty brutal. The FBI basically ignored the complaints. These were just female teens, after all, complaining about a great, male, coach. This is modern times, these are mainstream female teenagers. Totally unimportant. Completely ignored. And when you think of the cross-country prejudice against indigenous peoples, frankly, nobody cared. No wonder native people are so angry. It just went on and on and nobody cared or did anything about it. That's the worst thing about it. People in the communities knew, they had to know, they worked in these schools. Federal and provincial level officials knew about it, and I'm sure they tacitly approved of what was going on. Kill the Indian to save the Indian.

Oh, I just want to mention an interview I saw with a band chief after the Saskatchewan results were released. She was saying that when she was a child her parents were determined to keep her out of residential school, so they put her in the local public school. The bullying in the school was unbelievable. The teachers even gave the non-native students rulers to hit the native children with if they saw them "slacking off". The white kids taunted the native kids relentlessly. Her parents finally decided to send her to a residential school even though it meant a two hour bus ride every day, because all the kids at the school were indigenous.

[maarsen]

People in authority have always abused that privilege, regardless of their religion or political leanings. The problems are more disturbing when such a person falls back on a more nebulous authority while taking money from a direct authority. It was just a few years ago that some Catholic school boards in Ontario refused to abide by  the Ontario Human Rights Code, while being funded by the Ontario government. You can't have things both ways. 

[JGP]

16 hours ago, L'oiseau français said:

Oh, I just want to mention an interview I saw with a band chief after the Saskatchewan results were released. She was saying that when she was a child her parents were determined to keep her out of residential school, so they put her in the local public school. The bullying in the school was unbelievable. The teachers even gave the non-native students rulers to hit the native children with if they saw them "slacking off". The white kids taunted the native kids relentlessly. Her parents finally decided to send her to a residential school even though it meant a two hour bus ride every day, because all the kids at the school were indigenous.

Heartbreaking and rage inducing twofer right there. Jesus.

[maarsen]

I just saw in the news that Doug Ford had stopped the enforcement of regulations requiring people to have a trade license to do work such as car repair,  plumbing, sheet metal work, and hairdressing. These trades all require certification as you work with the public and and such if you screw up, people's health and safety is at risk. In my work as a millwright, with a Red Seal on my Certificate of Qualification, I have seen and heard of lots of instances of people passing themselves off as licensed but either having fake or no credidentials. In fact I now have two C of Qs as I was sent a replacement to replace one that 'burnt up in a fire.' Rather than send it to a different  address, the government send it the address where I lived. Somewhere out there is a frustrated fraudster.

I suppose that Doug Ford assumes that since he has no qualifications, who else needs them? Considered that plumbers alone have probably saved more lives than doctors, I think that this is an extremely short sighted  plan and just one more example of the thickheadedness of Doug Ford.

[Caligula_K3]

I think every resident of every province has plausible reasons for thinking their leadership is idiotic or horrible at some point or another, especially with some of our current premiers (Pallister, Ford, Legault). But Kenney and Alberta always find a way to outstrip the competition, and in this case, are going even further than states like Texas and Florida:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-covid-requirements-1.6121002

Wow. Wow wow wow. I have no words.

[Fragile Bird]

31 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I think every resident of every province has plausible reasons for thinking their leadership is idiotic or horrible at some point or another, especially with some of our current premiers (Pallister, Ford, Legault). But Kenney and Alberta always find a way to outstrip the competition, and in this case, are going even further than states like Texas and Florida:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-covid-requirements-1.6121002

Wow. Wow wow wow. I have no words.

I saw a brief clip of Kenney saying something like ‘we are going to rely on science, on vaccinations, instead!’ Hilarious, considering Alberta has one of the lowest number of first vaccinations in the country.

I saw Alberta had 194 cases yesterday, while Ontario had 158, but Ontario has 14.5 M people and Alberta has 4 M. Ontario’s number has jumped to 215 today, which is worrisome, the first number over 200 in three weeks. But we’d need almost 700 cases to match Alberta.

[Paxter]

Alberta seems to just compare itself to the US states. From their point of view, they have a far higher vacc rate and greater restrictions than the vast majority of US states. Doesn't please the rest of Canada, but it's not exactly surprising. 

[JGP]

Don’t know how to link Twitter posts on my phone, but this sad laugh is worth a share—

Alberta RN Warroom:

‘Alberta health suspending food inspections, but don’t worry they’re like checking the waste water for E. coli and stuff’

[Paxter]

I'm intrigued to see what Ford does next. Tying any further re-openings to vacc rates is sensible, but we are probably looking at a fourth wave either way, with Delta gaining ascendancy and plenty of people still unvacced. 

[Paxter]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:36 PM, Paxter said:

I'm intrigued to see what Ford does next. Tying any further re-openings to vacc rates is sensible, but we are probably looking at a fourth wave either way, with Delta gaining ascendancy and plenty of people still unvacced. 

Well to answer my own question...he is being stubborn and refusing to implement any sort of vacc passport. 

If Israel (a comparably vacced country) is any guide, ON will be looking at thousands of daily cases and a lot more hospitalizations by the end of next month. And that's before any cold weather has really set in.

Unless we can encourage the remaining millions to get vaccinated ASAP. 

[Fragile Bird]

Two news items.

Looks like a snap election is going to be called for September 20, with the shortest period allowed before the vote. The NDP have asked the GG not to allow the election call. This will be an interesting first test for her. 
 

Amusingly, of course, the Conservatives passed the four year law and then called an election after 18 months. This minority government is already long in the tooth.

Second news, we have now launched into our 4th wave of Covid-19. Cases have doubled in a week. More than 500 yesterday in Alberta and BC both, more than 500 in Ontario today, although we do have triple the population so it’s not as bad as it is out west. Yet. I hope you enjoyed the break!

That 20% who are eligible but not vaccinated really have to show up for their shots.

[Tyria]

Provincial election happening here. Gotta remember to vote! Last I heard the NDP eked ahead of the Libs, but it's close. 

Watching all the Covid stuff across the country from the relative safety of Atlantic Canada is pretty sad. I'm glad the vaccination rate is so high though. I work at a uni (just went back to campus for the first time this week, bleh). It's quiet now obviously, but I'm not looking forward to September and the influx of out of province students. At least the international students will be vaxxed to travel. There's no plans to have mandatory vaccinations and no masks mandate starting next month. The latter at least seems a bit rushed to me, but we'll see I guess. 

[Paxter]

A couple of pleasing announcements today with Alberta postponing its planned relaxation of COVID rules and the Feds announcing mandatory vaccines for public servants and transport passengers. 

Sensible stuff.

More of that please. 

[SpaceChampion]

Sept. 20th seems like a bad time to have an election.  I know it's a provincial issue but if the schools become superspreader sites in the two weeks before an election, people are going to want to punish someone, even if it's the wrong jurisdiction.  This seems unwise.

[JGP]

21 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Sept. 20th seems like a bad time to have an election.  I know it's a provincial issue but if the schools become superspreader sites in the two weeks before an election, people are going to want to punish someone, even if it's the wrong jurisdiction.  This seems unwise.

That's a tough one to call.

We've had Provincial elections during the pandemic, and followed them elsewhere, I don't know if it'll move the needle. Like, Conservatives are going to conservative of course, but in strongholds like Alberta Conservatives are polling [or were anyway] lower than the NDP provincially and federally. 

It's probably as good a time as any,

[Paxter]

I agree - I don’t see this election moving the needle much. Very hard to campaign on anything substantial when the entire electorate is focussed on getting through the pandemic.

[SpaceChampion]

The Conservatives didn't even have a platform last time, insubstantial is their whole game.

[Paxter]

On COVID restrictions, ON continues to be one of the strictest provinces. It looks as if Ford has gone as far as he will go with reopening, in the knowledge that we are going to be dealing with Delta for at least the remainder of '21. 

Again, I would probably say: sensible stuff. 

[Paxter]

I’m hating the evidence that vacc effectiveness tails off. 

I guess it means boosters need to start soon for our older populations. We can’t afford to be getting to Nov/Dec/Jan without vulnerable people being protected - I imagine that will be our first Delta peak.

Also, nice to see more private and public employers mandate vaccines by early fall. That will help build resilience for the rest of this year.