Walder Frey - Hate the game, not the player.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 12/20/2020 at 2:50 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

I can see the Starks wanting to off Slynt, Cersei, Jaime, Littlefinger, Ramsay, and Walder Frey. But I don't know how you go from that, to "harming many innocents" like some mass murder spree. 

Also Bran is aware that Ramsay is the cause of all the destruction at Winterfell, but we don't once see him dwell on that at all.

Offing those six would qualify as a spree.  It won't stop there.  When I said innocent, I meant the old man who was selling insurance policies in Braavos. 

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Offing those six would qualify as a spree

This is medieval Westeros, not 2010 New York. Wars are as common as muggings. The Red Wedding was a massacre. Spree like. These 6 (one dead already), 5 won't die in sequence which is required to classify it as 'spree'. And they aren't saints either. Jaime won't die by the hands of any Stark. Cersei will go out on her own insane terms. The rest, LF by Sansa, Walder by AryaNymeria, Boltons by RickonShaggy. And these aren't even certainties. 

1 hour ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

It won't stop there. 

Piece of sunshine 

1 hour ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

When I said innocent, I meant the old man who was selling insurance policies in Braavos.

Saint he was

[Bernie Mac]

22 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

 

Saint he was

What does this comment even mean? Do only saints not deserve assassination from the Starks?

[Rose of Red Lake]

10 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Offing those six would qualify as a spree.  It won't stop there.  When I said innocent, I meant the old man who was selling insurance policies in Braavos. 

I: What about the families: Are the Starks, say, the Green Bay Packers? 

GRRM: Whenever I propose analogies like that, fans jump in with their own ideas, but it depends on what team you root for. To me, the Starks old insurance scammer and Walder Frey are heroes, so they would be the Giants. (x) 

[TheLastWolf]

11 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

What does this comment even mean? Do only saints not deserve assassination from the Starks?

The insurance guy was responsible for the ruin of many families. He was no philanthropist. We know this from the text. Or at least what the FM tell Arya and Arya doesn't blindly kill him. She observes him and makes the decision and her decision making skills are better than 99.99% of the characters or she wouldn't have survived for so long. If that old man was really innocent, one: he couldn't have survived for so long in Martin's world, just ask Ned, two: why bodyguards.

And funny how you take all the Starks when only Arya is being discussed. 

[Lady Topspin]

5 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

The insurance guy was responsible for the ruin of many families. He was no philanthropist. We know this from the text. Or at least what the FM tell Arya and Arya doesn't blindly kill him. She observes him and makes the decision and her decision making skills are better than 99.99% of the characters or she wouldn't have survived for so long. If that old man was really innocent, one: he couldn't have survived for so long in Martin's world, just ask Ned, two: why bodyguards.

And funny how you take all the Starks when only Arya is being discussed. 

Many families and businesses will now be ruined because their insurance underwriter was killed by Arya.  Killing that man because he was allegedly guilty of fraud was a stupid move on the part of the faceless.  Any claims for losses going forward will go unpaid because the underwriter is gone. 

It's a small world.  People talk.  He would have gone out of business if he was a swindler.  It's not uncommon for merchants and business people to hire security.  Having guards is not a sign of dishonesty. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 12/15/2020 at 5:36 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

See here's the mistake you make. The Freys could just stay out of the rebellion from that point on. Tywin wouldn't mind as it means removing an important ally from Robb Stark and there was little Robb Stark could do, especially given that he was in the wrong.

And that's what happens for a good chunk of ASOS, they stay neutral and no one bothers them. So the Red Wedding wasn't in any way shape or form necessary for them to stay alive and prosperous, they have a long enough history of sitting on their asses and doing nothing to know that. So no, not excusable in any way shape or form

Tywin would demand payment.  The Freys were not getting out of that pickle without bleeding gold and other holdings.  Walder would remember what happened to Butterwell.  Bloodraven took away 90% of the Butterwell holdings.  No lord would wish that on his family. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Freys were not getting out of that pickle without bleeding gold

Shit, what will I do, spend some gold or commit an unspeakable crime. Yup, guest right breaking it is.

2 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Walder would remember what happened to Butterwell.  Bloodraven took away 90% of the Butterwell holdings.  No lord would wish that on his family. 

Butterwell was actively forrmenting a rebellion, with him as one of the leaders. Walder Frey joined in with his liege to an already ongoing rebellion. No way Tywin would have punished them even remotely as hard.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

. You wanted crossing and I gave it to you, and you never said mayhaps, heh. But suit yourself. Lead each man across by the hand if you like, it's naught to me."
Robb didn’t. But Walder just did.

Walder Frey's mouth moved in and out. "Food, heh. A loaf of bread, a bite of cheese, mayhaps a sausage."

Salt wounds. Tears of joy. Iron in hand. Lot going on.

No matter what marriage took place a red wedding may have always been planned.

 I hate the Freys. Working both sides of the river and making people pay to cross them is what they are. Guest rite given on one side may not apply on the other.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

3 hours ago, Eliscat said:

. You wanted crossing and I gave it to you, and you never said mayhaps, heh. But suit yourself. Lead each man across by the hand if you like, it's naught to me."
Robb didn’t. But Walder just did.

Walder Frey's mouth moved in and out. "Food, heh. A loaf of bread, a bite of cheese, mayhaps a sausage."

Salt wounds. Tears of joy. Iron in hand. Lot going on.

No matter what marriage took place a red wedding may have always been planned.

 I hate the Freys. Working both sides of the river and making people pay to cross them is what they are. Guest rite given on one side may not apply on the other.

Walder provided men who fought bravely for Robb.  His heir died while fighting on behalf of the Starks.  Walder was not planning on betraying Robb until two things happened:  Robb betrayed him.  Robb killed Karstark and Catelyn released their hostage. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

36 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Walder provided men who fought bravely for Robb.  His heir died while fighting on behalf of the Starks.  Walder was not planning on betraying Robb until two things happened:  Robb betrayed him.  Robb killed Karstark and Catelyn released their hostage. 

On 12/29/2020 at 8:26 PM, Lady Topspin said:

Many families and businesses will now be ruined because their insurance underwriter was killed by Arya.  Killing that man because he was allegedly guilty of fraud was a stupid move on the part of the faceless.  Any claims for losses going forward will go unpaid because the underwriter is gone. 

It's a small world.  People talk.  He would have gone out of business if he was a swindler.  It's not uncommon for merchants and business people to hire security.  Having guards is not a sign of dishonesty. 

On 12/29/2020 at 6:42 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Offing those six would qualify as a spree.  It won't stop there.  When I said innocent, I meant the old man who was selling insurance policies in Braavos. 

These 3 posts are written in the same voice, same choppy sentences, two spaces after sentences, never using commas, no quotes, same terrible ideas. 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Walder provided men who fought bravely for Robb.  His heir died while fighting on behalf of the Starks.  Walder was not planning on betraying Robb until two things happened:  Robb betrayed him.  Robb killed Karstark and Catelyn released their hostage. 

I agree. Frey’s are the wronged party. Such a grievance requires action. Not sure if breaking a marriage contract is a betrayal. Karstark was Robb’s to judge. No matter who released a hostage, it was Robb’s hostage. My comment on a pre-arranged Red Wedding includes the Starks involvement or manipulation to that end.

[Rose of Red Lake]

5 hours ago, Eliscat said:

 I hate the Freys.

34 minutes ago, Eliscat said:

I agree. Frey’s are the wronged party.

 

[Lord of Oldstones]

His matchmaking ability is underrated. His wives were Royce,Blackwood,Swann,Crakehall & Whent.

He married his 2nd son to a daughter of the richest and the then 2nd most powerful house. Married likes of Merret Frey  with Lord Darry's daughter. His granddaughter is Lady Bolton. A daughter is married to claimnant  Lord Tully. 

Got his grandchildren and great grandchildren married to likes of Lefford,Caron,Brax,Vance,Waynwood,Beesbury and many more prominent houses.

The Frey name might well be erased for their crimes but his female line will endure for sure.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

That’s fair. The Frey’s had been wronged and I hate the actions they took. Robb made peace for the one broken contract. Edmure was now included with all the other marriages. Walder could have asked for anything from Robb. Walder had already made a deal with Tywin. Which may have been what Walder was always waiting for. To call a murder an act of war, and to blame the victim as a monster, is dispicable. If  Walders claimed reason of being slighted socially is believed, petty and dispicable

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

Some Houses lay siege, but Walder lays seed. For a cautious man, who keeps an army in his pants, why’d he give up on all the fertile soil in his hands for the promise of Tywin’s offer? Tywin-Twin? Niwyt?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

25 minutes ago, Lightoftheast said:

His matchmaking ability is underrated. His wives were Royce,Blackwood,Swann,Crakehall & Whent.

He married his 2nd son to a daughter of the richest and the then 2nd most powerful house. Married likes of Merret Frey  with Lord Darry's daughter. His granddaughter is Lady Bolton. A daughter is married to claimnant  Lord Tully. 

Got his grandchildren and great grandchildren married to likes of Lefford,Caron,Brax,Vance,Waynwood,Beesbury and many more prominent houses.

His problem is that there's a million more from where that came from

[Bernie Mac]

18 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

They are not mutually exclusive positions. Someone can hate the Freys while agreeing that the Freys were wronged. 

 

Not sure how that could confuse you.

[TheLastWolf]

On 1/4/2021 at 9:44 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

These 3 posts are written in the same voice, same choppy sentences, two spaces after sentences, never using commas, no quotes, same terrible ideas. 

MPD/DID/SCHIZO, i mentioned it a lot 

[TheLastWolf]

Funny how Robert the Bruce's leper father from Mel Gibson's Braveheart is parallel to Walder Frey with his gout. So Robb/Ned (latter more suitable) is William Wallace. This means a son or grandson or great grandson or bastard of Old Frey will correct the wrongs of the Red Wedding (wasn't Wallace caught by a breaking of medieval guest rights equivalent being broken IIRC) and restore Freys to the Realm's (or rather all the decent men in it) favor. Especially the wronged North and Riverlands.