TheLastWolf Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Dragomir said: Has it even been confirmed that Jon is dead? Nope 2 hours ago, Dragomir said: And am pretty sure Arya is not yet this cold blooded killer people insist she is. No she is not Solemnly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said: Solemnly It's even more then that. I was one of the people arguing she was a psycho in the making, but even so her blowing up KL, doesn't make a lick of sense, it's just not who she is or how she works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragomir Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Its almost like they want her to go rabid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Dragomir said: Its almost like they want her to go rabid They do so they would feel vindicated in their love for one character and their hatred for all others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragomir Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: They do so they would feel vindicated in their love for one character and their hatred for all others And unfortunately it's a very common theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 Just now, Dragomir said: 36 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: They do so they would feel vindicated in their love for one character and their hatred for all others And unfortunately it's a very common theme. Sadly yes, which is ironic considering that GRRM's world is filled to the brim with complex characters, with only a few being truly evil and none being wholly good. To single out just one character as the all good messiah is pretty weird, both because of this moral complexity and due to the fact that the story doesn't have a protagonist, though one could argue that Jon, Tyrion and Dany do serve as the main characters, as evidenced by the their POV count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Sadly yes, which is ironic considering that GRRM's world is filled to the brim with complex characters, with only a few being truly evil and none being wholly good. To single out just one character as the all good messiah is pretty weird, both because of this moral complexity and due to the fact that the story doesn't have a protagonist, though one could argue that Jon, Tyrion and Dany do serve as the main characters, as evidenced by the their POV count. If we're using the POV count as a metric, than Arya would more likely be a protagonist than Dany because Arya has more POV chapters than Dany as a whole. I think that the six POV's still left from AGoT are all protagonists, these being, in order, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Dany, Sansa and Bran. It's not POV chapters we should be using, but relative importance to the plot. Love them or hate them, these are the six most important characters in this story. I think the greatest trick GRRM ever pulled was getting all of us more invested in the game of thrones than we were in the actual meat of the story, the Long Night and the fight against the Others. At the end of the day, this is what really matters, and all of the characters in ASOIAF will play a role during the new Long Night. But let's all stan Dany, and ship JonVal, and root for Stannis the Mannis! We've fallen into the trap George laid out for us by rooting for one team over another. But the story was never about teams. Teams were always the obstacle that humanity needed to overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Bullrout said: And the rabbit always outsmarted the canine in those tales, if I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 On 12/18/2020 at 6:54 PM, Unit A2 said: They will get revenge but they will pay for it dearly. Arya will lose her life after killing Walder. Jon already lost his but he is likely to lead fellow ice wights to attack the Boltons. It's too bad about Bran. He's too powerful to kill without modern herbicides! Spray Bran with Roundup. It gets down to the roots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen 747 Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 7:40 AM, James West said: All are mechanisms for revenge. But this is not an Alexandre Dumas tale in which the man carrying out revenge was an innocent victim. The Starks were involved in the politics going on in Westeros. They insulted and stepped on many toes. Robb killed a loyal bannerman and broke his promise to another. Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch. Still, I believe they were wronged in some ways. But the revenge these wolves will inflict on the Lannisters, Freys, Boltons, Bowen Marsh, and the Karstarks will exceed what is fair in my opinion. I know it will be fun for some fans of the novels. Martin may only do this for fun. Revenge can be fun to read. But we also need to ask whether it will accomplish anything productive. The bad things that happened took place during war. A war the Starks chose to participate in. Wight Wolf - Jon Snow Rabid Wolf - Arya Stark Tree Wolf - Bran Stark Wild Wolf - Rickon Stark Winter is the time for wolves, Others, wights, and Starks. They will be on top of the food chain for as long as winter lasts. But I am hoping the winter won't be as long as Old Nan says it is. Top of the food chain only if Westeros enters a long ice age. There will be little to no support for a Stark, full or part Stark, in the southern kingdoms. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/158291-most-people-believe-ned-stark-was-guilty-of-treason/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbrey Dustin Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 On 12/15/2020 at 7:40 AM, James West said: All are mechanisms for revenge. But this is not an Alexandre Dumas tale in which the man carrying out revenge was an innocent victim. The Starks were involved in the politics going on in Westeros. They insulted and stepped on many toes. Robb killed a loyal bannerman and broke his promise to another. Jon Snow betrayed the Night's Watch. Still, I believe they were wronged in some ways. But the revenge these wolves will inflict on the Lannisters, Freys, Boltons, Bowen Marsh, and the Karstarks will exceed what is fair in my opinion. I know it will be fun for some fans of the novels. Martin may only do this for fun. Revenge can be fun to read. But we also need to ask whether it will accomplish anything productive. The bad things that happened took place during war. A war the Starks chose to participate in. Wight Wolf - Jon Snow Rabid Wolf - Arya Stark Tree Wolf - Bran Stark Wild Wolf - Rickon Stark Winter is the time for wolves, Others, wights, and Starks. They will be on top of the food chain for as long as winter lasts. But I am hoping the winter won't be as long as Old Nan says it is. The Snow Man and the Rabid Wolf will make the Red Wedding seem like a slap on the wrist. There won't be anything in the way of productive about it. Just pure, unrestrained, cold-blooded rampage. They will be terrible and destructive. Woody Wolf will join in the kill when he finds Jaime Lannister. Their fans will be cheering while we will be condemning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 20 hours ago, Barbrey Dustin said: The Snow Man and the Rabid Wolf will make the Red Wedding seem like a slap on the wrist. There won't be anything in the way of productive about it. Just pure, unrestrained, cold-blooded rampage. They will be terrible and destructive. Woody Wolf will join in the kill when he finds Jaime Lannister. Their fans will be cheering while we will be condemning. Tree Wolf will animate and remote control the dead to do his bidding. Bran will break every taboo, every moral code out there to fight for his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Rondo said: Tree Wolf will animate and remote control the dead to do his bidding. Bran will break every taboo, every moral code out there to fight for his family. Yes. Bran will betray Brenden. The Starks are ice to the core. But it may not be all for revenge. Like maybe Bran will be the interim ruler of Westeros while the winter has driven the people to Essos. He will use his skills of skin changing powers to manage the wights and keep them contained until Queen Daenerys arrives with her dragons during the thaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wadsworth Longfellow Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Bran is the only wolf who has the right to revenge. I can't blame him if he should kill Jaime Lannister. That's what Jaime Lannister wanted to do to him. Justice is not done if Jaime gets away with it. A red wedding against their enemies is not justified in my opinion. The Starks rebelled. Walder, Roose, and Tywin were also victims of Jaime's and Cersei's lies. The Starks were quarrelsome malcontents from their view. Arya has a right to punish Petyr Baelish for his lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James West Posted February 1, 2021 Author Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 12/19/2020 at 2:43 AM, Shierak Qiya said: This revenge they are not entitled to. The wolves will have their day but it won't end well for them. It won't lead to positive results. They will only make it harder to mount a defense against the others. Their fight with the Boltons for supremacy in the north will lead to further erosion of man's ability to fight the White Walkers. The battles will consume scarce resources and cause the death of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 As a matter of fact the Starks nicknames along with the wolf pattern are more like Robb the Young Wolf Jon either the White Wolf or the Dragon Wolf Sansa the Noble She-wolf Arya the Night Wolf Bran the Winged wolf Rickon the Wild Wolf Furthermore to create nicknames by combining the family’s animal pattern and the person’s personality is a very interesting process. For example when it comes to the Targaryens it can be something like Aerys II the Mad dragon Rhaegar the Deranged Dragon Viserys the Insane Dragon Daenerys the Psychotic Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Furthermore to create nicknames by combining the family’s animal pattern and the person’s personality is a very interesting process. For example when it comes to the Targaryens it can be something like Aerys II the Mad dragon Rhaegar the Deranged Dragon Viserys the Insane Dragon Daenerys the Psychotic Dragon Very interesting idea. I'd add a few more Aegon I the Ambitious Dragon Aenys the Weak Dragen Maegor the Cruel Dragon Viserys the Foolish Dragon Aegon II and Rhaenyra I the I'm-not-sure-how-to-call-these-specimens Dragons Aemond the Bloodthirsty/Psychopathic Dragon Jacarys, Lucerys and Joffrey the Strong Dragons Daeron I the Warmonger Dragon Baelor the Befuddled Dragon Aegon IV the Lustful Dragon Daemon the Black Dragon Aerion the Insane Dragon Jaehaerys II the incredibly shitty parent Dragon Aerys II the mad dragon Rhaegar the idiot dragon Viserys the Insane Dragon Dany the Entitled Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 6 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Very interesting idea. I'd add a few more Aegon I the Ambitious Dragon Aenys the Weak Dragen Maegor the Cruel Dragon Viserys the Foolish Dragon Aegon II and Rhaenyra I the I'm-not-sure-how-to-call-these-specimens Dragons Aemond the Bloodthirsty/Psychopathic Dragon Jacarys, Lucerys and Joffrey the Strong Dragons Daeron I the Warmonger Dragon Baelor the Befuddled Dragon Aegon IV the Lustful Dragon Daemon the Black Dragon Aerion the Insane Dragon Jaehaerys II the incredibly shitty parent Dragon Aerys II the mad dragon Rhaegar the idiot dragon Viserys the Insane Dragon Dany the Entitled Dragon And to add Rhaenys, Aegon's sisterwife, The Dragon who felt Visenya the Wicked Witch of Westeros Dragon Jaehaerys I, at the end of his days, the Misogynistic Dragon Alyssane, at the end of her days, the Broken Hearted Dragon Aegon II the Kinslaying Queenslaying Dragon Aegor the Scorned Half dragon Aegon V, sorry Egg, the delusional dragon Dany the Entitled Psychotic Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Jaehaerys I, at the end of his days, the Misogynistic Dragon At the end of his days? I think you mean for all his life. So it's just Jaehaerys the Misogynistic Dragon. 14 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Aegor the Scorned Half dragon Then we should ad Brynden the Ruthless Dragon and Shiera the vain dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: At the end of his days? I think you mean for all his life. So it's just Jaehaerys the Misogynistic Dragon. I was trying to be polite. 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Shiera the vain dragon. Shiera the Vain Witchly dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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