Covid-19 #21 - The Darkness Before the Dawn

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Having trouble with quote function, but actually think that lockdowns were (and are?) the right tool.  However, they weren’t backed up with the next steps:  (1) a true national testing and tracing strategy to coordinate the disparate efforts of the several states, (2) proper economic support at the federal level (including incentives and support for people to quarantine correctly), and (3) coordinated consistent messaging about masking and hygiene.  So, the restaurant, travel and entertainment industries are f*cked.  And though things will come back (probably with a vengeance), the “creative destruction” (meaning suffering an hunger) in its wake is appalling and will set a lot of people back a generation.  Bah humbug.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

18 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Fragile Bird - I’m not talking about “doing nothing”, but maybe hindsight is 20/20, and instead of hard lockdowns, we could have done targeted lockdowns, mask wearing, ALL the mask wearing and...

...well, we would have needed a different administration for that. 

If we had acted early and smart enough, it might have been possible. After that, I don't think there was any choice between Covid and the economy. The economy was going to be screwed anyway.

It's relevant to note, Spanish Flu lasted ~2 years and killed 50-100 million people. This was preceded by the bloodiest war in history which killed about another 20-30 million. This is at a time when global population was only around 1.5 billion. What followed? The roaring twenties.

The economy will recover.

[Zorral]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/inside-this-california-hospital-a-constant-battle-against-covid-19/2020/12/18/c1eccbd8-ff7f-4bcb-8ea7-b0dcb02363fe_video.html

 

[Darzin]

6 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Frankly, it's worse than that, and our respective MSM have a lot to answer for, because they fucked up big time. Not only were they in full racist mode like "Oh look these backwards inferiors, they're struggling as if they still lived in the Middle-Ages", yet never mention anymore that some countries, China to begin with, have now pretty much beaten back the virus, while gleefully noticing every time a major city goes into lockdown because they just got a handful of cases - barely noticing that China then tests 10 mio people in a couple of day, just to be sure. Oh no, nothing that could make China look better than us is acceptable.

The narrative with China and the virus has just been so nuts the entire time. When it first started all the Monday morning quaterbacking about how they didn't react soon enough how the measures were not enough on and on. The whole time I was thinking there is no way that that America is going to handle it this well (I thought Europe would do better then they did) and now that the virus is controlled it's been radio silent.

[DireWolfSpirit]

About that new U.K. strain-

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/22/cdc-says-new-covid-strain-in-uk-could-already-be-circulating-undetected-in-us.html

Basicly I'd say it's wishful dreaming if one believes it's not already here.

I'm concerned about "another shoe to drop" regarding this opinion-

 

"Among these possibilities, the last—the ability to evade vaccine-induced immunity—would likely be the most concerning because once a large proportion of the population is vaccinated, there will be immune pressure that could favor and accelerate emergence of such variants by selecting for 'escape mutants,'" CDC said. "There is no evidence that this is occurring, and most experts believe escape mutants are unlikely to emerge because of the nature of the virus."

So far there isn't any evidence, but no one is saying it's an impossibility, so I'm still concerned.

 

[Heartofice]

I'd be very surprised if that strain hasn't made it's way across the world in some ways. Looking at the inexplicable rises in cases in countries around Europe I'm wondering if that strain doesn't have something to do with it. 

However, I don't think there is any real chance of this strain being resistant to the vaccine, simply there is no evolutionary pressure on the virus to adapt to vaccines because it can spread quite easily.

[rotting sea cow]

11 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

No, they didn't just stop there, they went full ideological cretins, because then comes the ultimate suicidal mad move: when China and Russia announced they were working on vaccines, then are testing them, they were treated like deluded fools by Western media, they were ridiculed, pretty much all reports focusing on "that's too rushed, their shit isn't reliable, it won't work, will have plenty of nasty side-effects, and will kill more people than the virus, and look, they're using their people and military as guinea pigs - folks, they're just 3rd world countries, who could trust anything they make?". Then 2 months later, Western pharma manage to bring up their own efficient vaccines, and the same papers claim a huge moral and technological victory - then governments and media act surprised when half the people are doubtful and think the vaccines have been rushed, won't work, will harm them. This is exactly what you've trained your readers/viewers to think for weeks when reporting about Chinese and Russian research, you dumb fuckers: youv'e turned your shit-for-brains audience into moronic anti-vaxxers, don't act surprised now because you fucked up completely.

I didn't thought about that, but you are spot on. The message is schizophrenic  "their vaccine is rushed! ours of course isn't!"

11 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

I'm fuckign done with our governments and with our media, the former for being hypocritical mass murderers, the latter for being pure propaganda outlets that mostly brainwash people with "our government acted in the best possible way, no one did better or could've done better" instead of calling them out for literally killing their own people by the tens of thousands. Suing them for "criminal negligence" is, as far as I'm concerned, pretty much a joke that sadly won't even be played out, when what they knowingly and willingly did is way way worse than that and will go down in history books, 100 or 150 years from now, with the deeds of Idi Amin Dada and Saddam Hussein, or the various famines across Mao's China and Stalin's USSR.

I forgot to add to my list is how the media has been announcing a catastrophic pandemic in Africa from pretty much the beginning, almost hoping that the dead pile high on the streets. When that didn't happen and neither has happened in most of the impoverished world (except in L. America) they turn to describe particular stories about how hard life has become for few of their inhabitants, ignoring that most of their own citizens are facing hardship.  

[rotting sea cow]

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

About that new U.K. strain-

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/22/cdc-says-new-covid-strain-in-uk-could-already-be-circulating-undetected-in-us.html

Basicly I'd say it's wishful dreaming if one believes it's not already here.

It is in continental Europe and likely around much of the World. The cancellation of flights now really seems pointless.

 

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I'm concerned about "another shoe to drop" regarding this opinion-

 

"Among these possibilities, the last—the ability to evade vaccine-induced immunity—would likely be the most concerning because once a large proportion of the population is vaccinated, there will be immune pressure that could favor and accelerate emergence of such variants by selecting for 'escape mutants,'" CDC said. "There is no evidence that this is occurring, and most experts believe escape mutants are unlikely to emerge because of the nature of the virus."

So far there isn't any evidence, but no one is saying it's an impossibility, so I'm still concerned.

 

I think the real possibility of reduced effectivity or the need to tweak the vaccine amid the rollout is what triggered the reactions. So far, no evidence, but vaccines will put further pressure on the virus to evolve.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

It could definitely be that there is hope. I just worry about these new variants...although nothing in the history of what we know of "how viruses behave" indicates that increased transmissibility has ever resulted in a greater fatality rate. 

I just probably don't need to read the news for a couple weeks and then check back in and hope to be pleasantly surprised. 

Yeah, "eventual economic recovery" won't mean much if people lose everything in the meantime.  I'm doing OK but this hole situation is not doing my savings any favors.

Regarding the new variant, Some potential good news:

 

Vincent explains the properties of the SARS-CoV-2 UK variant and why claims that it is more transmissible are not supported by experimental data.
 

 

[Zorral]

Even as the deaths and sick increase every day, there are those who think, "It's not so bad.  So why don't we just let it go, and keep the economy open and live our lives like normal?"

It's living our lives  as though all is normal that is increasing the deaths and the sick -- that we do not see.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/21/covid-why-we-ignore-deaths/

 

Quote

 

When Todd Klindt buried his dad, he was stunned. Some of the mourners arrived not wearing masks — for the funeral of a man killed by the coronavirus....

....“I’m like, ‘Are you paying attention at all? Is any of this sinking in?’ ” said Klindt, who lives in Ames, Iowa.

Death is now everywhere and yet nowhere in America. We track its progress in daily bar graphs. We note its latest victims among celebrities and acquaintances. Yet, in many parts of America, we carry on — debating holiday plans, the necessity of mask mandates, how seriously to take the virus, whether it’s all a hoax....

....With the coronavirus in particular, experts say, the deaths have been hidden from sight even from friends and family — the human cost sequestered in hospitals and nursing homes.

“Sometimes I think, if only others could see what we see every day,” said Joan Schaum, a hospice nurse who has spent the past year caring for the dying in Lancaster, Pa....

 

 

[BigFatCoward]

Our death rate has exploded in last 2 days. 691 yesterday, 744 today.  Nothing good is happening over the next month (other than my 92 year old nana just had her first jab which has greatly relieved me). 

[Zorral]

At least 3000 health care workers have died of covid-19, in the US alone.  The vast majority of them well under 60.  Many of them mothers and fathers.  Ya, for the sake of economy just let the pandemic rip without any action to mitigate or slow it.  Hope that works well for you when you need chemo or an emergency tonsillectomy or appendectomy or premature labor assistance or your kid develops a septic ear infection.

What is so hard about this for people to understand????????  That refusal of masks and Distance will ultimately affect your opportunity to keep drinking after midnight for the rest of your life?  And far sooner than you evidently can imagine either, the longer this refusal to Do Anything Yourself except expect Others to get vaccinated.

But everywhere -- it's a hoax and shoggoth has been framed and defrauded and I support him to the death!

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

At least 3000 health care workers have died of covid-19, in the US alone.  The vast majority of them well under 60.  Many of them mothers and fathers.  Ya, for the sake of economy just let the pandemic rip without any action to mitigate or slow it.  Hope that works well for you when you need chemo or an emergency tonsillectomy or appendectomy or premature labor assistance or your kid develops a septic ear infection.

What is so hard about this for people to understand????????  That refusal of masks and Distance will ultimately affect your opportunity to keep drinking after midnight for the rest of your life?  And far sooner than you evidently can imagine either, the longer this refusal to Do Anything Yourself except expect Others to get vaccinated.

But everywhere -- it's a hoax and shoggoth has been framed and defrauded and I support him to the death!

 

Until recently, I was a mature student at a college in western Canada. My fellow students, most of them much younger than me, set up a group chat that's still going so I get to interact with them to a degree.

Many of them absolutely "get it". They understand how serious this is and what the broader implications are.

-If health care professionals are physically/mentally broken by this, it harms us all.

-If hospitals are overwhelmed with patients, medical resources become zero-sum and we go right back to the double digit mortality rates we saw in the spring; only this time it's everywhere.

-If hospitals are jammed with Covid patients, that means a reduced level of available health care for everyone else. People start being harmed by this thing even if they never got it.

-Wearing masks is not about personal protection, it's about everybody protecting everybody.

-There's no magic bullet that's going to make this thing go away. We need to deploy every weapon we have.

Others in this group of now college-educated young adults, are staggeringly ignorant. I see phrases like "it's old people dying" and I want to rip into them. 10 months into this and their thinking hasn't evolved since February. Like they're still on the fence about this thing. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

8 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Deadlines? What Deadlines? - I think it’s a bit of human nature that you’re seeing. People have reacted in similar ways to various plagues throughout the history of humanity.

And, also, these past few months have been depressing. It’s easy to get fatalistic.

I know it. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

It's interesting how a lot of this is stuff played out the same way with Spanish Flu. Lock downs, no lock downs, masks, etc.

[DireWolfSpirit]

 

"Others in this group of now college-educated young adults, are staggeringly ignorant. I see phrases like "it's old people dying" and I want to rip into them. 10 months into this and their thinking hasn't evolved since February. "

[endquote]

There's possibly an element of resentment with younger folks who feel they have been "left out" to a certain extent when they see many of their peers being disproportionately harmed from the shutdowns, while many (older workers) not having to make that same sacrifice. It's bound to create instances of ageism one would think.

The reality is almost everyone is suffering a bit, if not financially then likely emotionally or worse either physically from the virus itself or grieving a loved one. Very few a left untouched in anyway whatsoever.

I personally haven't suffered a lot financially but my mental health and emotional disposition is much more dark and it's taken a toll over how healthy I feel, especially compared to pre pandemic days.

[S John]

5 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

 

The reality is almost everyone is suffering a bit, if not financially then likely emotionally or worse either physically from the virus itself or grieving a loved one. Very few a left untouched in anyway whatsoever.

I personally haven't suffered a lot financially but my mental health and emotional disposition is much more dark and it's taken a toll over how healthy I feel, especially compared to pre pandemic days.

Yea I’m in a similar boat and without contracting the disease my health has suffered somewhat in that I’ve been avoiding the gym for this entire time. My wife is super pregnant and I just don’t want to do anything unnecessary outside of the home. I still do active things but pre-Covid I was in the best shape of my life due to regular attendance at a gym with group classes. I hate working out by myself, I hate running, but found that I thrived in group class environments that I’m now too concerned about Covid to attend so my activity level has dropped.

but the main concern for me is what @Deadlines? What Deadlines? mentioned and that’s just the general strain on the system due to Covid that will affect everything else. A medical emergency can happen to anyone at any time and I don’t understand why that fact doesn’t prompt everyone into taking Covid seriously. Yea you personally might not be harmed by Covid - but you personally could very much be harmed if you get into a serious car accident and the hospital you have to go to is overwhelmed with Covid patients and the folks treating you are fatigued and stretched to the breaking point. Like, even if you are a selfish asshole there are still perfectly sound reasons to take it seriously.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

48 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

If you have the means, and want to be treated like royalty, I suggest you buy a large denomination gift card at your favorite local small restaurant. 

My pizza place really loves me. As does my wine bar, and to a lesser extent, the snobby French place by my office. $1,000 at the pizza place and the wine bar go a looooong way, where at the French restaurant, it’s just enough to not get me kicked out when I show up wearing sweatpants and a parka and ask to be seated outside.

(“outside? But we have no heaters!?” they say. “That’s ok, I also brought my blanket” I reply, holding up my fuzzy warm blanket.)

Bah. You should hit them with cold eyes and say, "I'm from North Dakota you wimp." 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

5 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

"Others in this group of now college-educated young adults, are staggeringly ignorant. I see phrases like "it's old people dying" and I want to rip into them. 10 months into this and their thinking hasn't evolved since February. "

[endquote]

There's possibly an element of resentment with younger folks who feel they have been "left out" to a certain extent when they see many of their peers being disproportionately harmed from the shutdowns, while many (older workers) not having to make that same sacrifice. It's bound to create instances of ageism one would think.

The reality is almost everyone is suffering a bit, if not financially then likely emotionally or worse either physically from the virus itself or grieving a loved one. Very few a left untouched in anyway whatsoever.

I personally haven't suffered a lot financially but my mental health and emotional disposition is much more dark and it's taken a toll over how healthy I feel, especially compared to pre pandemic days.

Nope. it's pure selfishness. They don't care about older workers one way or the other.

I try not to fall into the, "kids these days" abyss, because I accept my rear view isn't as clear or rosy as it appears. But I think I have a pretty good memory of the first time I went to college and how we behaved then. Many of my recent classmates were great. Not the most worldly people I've ever met (who is at that age?), but they are at least interesting, thoughtful people who have good social skills and a sense of the world around them.

The rest are self centered idiots who consistently shocked me with their immaturity and ability to complain. One off them, who spends way too much time living rent-free in my head, is a 20 year old who was at once the most ignorant person I've ever met while also being the most rigid and confident in his views. Also he still owes me 40 bucks.

Our Thermodynamics instructor literally composed a small textbook worth of very well written study guides and worksheets for us because the commercial material was either too remedial or too advanced; for free. It was a very challenging course but there were students who never attended a single class and still got an A+ because the course material was that good. He also said we didn't need to attend class if we didn't want to, despite the fact that there was an attendance requirement. If we did come to class, he didn't care what we  did so long is it didn't disturb his flow or the class.  If you did show up the class was never boring. This was literally the best deal possible. In addition, he was an extremely intelligent, interesting guy with a ton of industry experience. Meanwhile, you couldn't strangle an interesting anecdote out of some of the other instructors.

They still complained.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Hahahaha!! That would have only worked back in the day when I thought 60 degrees F was warm...

You've become soft.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Bah. You should hit them with cold eyes and say, "I'm from North Dakota you wimp." 

 

53 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Hahahaha!! That would have only worked back in the day when I thought 60 degrees F was warm...

Northern Manitoba.

You have no idea.