Moiraine Sedai Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 On 12/19/2020 at 2:31 PM, BlackLightning said: Not if there was some kind of truce or armistice that ended the first Long Night that was broken. Not if there is someone making the Others believe something that is not true. I do find it interesting how the Others have not attacked the Wall yet even though they are not far at all. They only seem to be actively attacking and killing people on the other side of the Wall which has only recently started happening. Maybe that's the reason why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell. They didn't attack Craster. I guess he was on time with his rent. Mance was late!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said: They didn't attack Craster. I guess he was on time with his rent. Mance was late!!!!!!!!!! That's a real good way of looking at it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 12/17/2020 at 1:06 AM, SeanF said: WRT the wights, they have a limited sentience, IMHO. Some, like Coldhands, have a great deal of sentience. But why would Coldhands have a great deal of sentience but the other wights have no sentience. Could it be that the other wights are slaves and Coldhands is (pardon the Harry Potter reference) a free wight? On 12/28/2020 at 10:06 AM, CamiloRP said: Nope, I'm just explaining that, if the wights are just 'blank' corpses, then controlling them is not evil at all. If being the keyword. If the wights are "blank" corpses, then it's just a twisted form of sorcery and whether or not it is evil would be up for debate. If the wights are not "blank" corpses but people who have been forcibly resurrected and then enslaved, then it would be evil. Not only would it be very evil, it would be thematically on-key and it would also validate and uphold what Daenerys Targaryen has been doing all along. I am glad we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 33 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: Could it be that the other wights are slaves and Coldhands is (pardon the Harry Potter reference) a free wight? I was re-reading the second book of Miss Peregrine's home series and it struck me that the wights in that series are Hollowgasts which have eaten sufficient peculiars to become wights. So what if wights like Coldhands are ex-Others. Possibly Symeon Star Eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 51 minutes ago, BlackLightning said: But why would Coldhands have a great deal of sentience but the other wights have no sentience. Could it be that the other wights are slaves and Coldhands is (pardon the Harry Potter reference) a free wight? If being the keyword. If the wights are "blank" corpses, then it's just a twisted form of sorcery and whether or not it is evil would be up for debate. If the wights are not "blank" corpses but people who have been forcibly resurrected and then enslaved, then it would be evil. Not only would it be very evil, it would be thematically on-key and it would also validate and uphold what Daenerys Targaryen has been doing all along. I am glad we agree. It’s certainly possible. Being controlled as a wight is a grim form of servitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 They have technology, language and social behavior. First guess is that they are an intelligent species so they are not inherently or collectively anything but individuals who make choices. Nothing we have seen from them so far falls outside the boundaries of normal human behaviour, which is an admittedly low bar. The two wigths that Jon killed and the way Thistle is described suggests that they do have some form of awareness. Beric, Stoneheart and most relevant in this case Coldhands clearly have intellect and awareness, though I don't think it is intact. Being made mute, which is the main difference between the ice wights and the rest, is a parallel with Euron's crew. This would indicate some extreme form of servitude. It is also however a parallel with the Silent Sisters and the brothers of the quite isle, so I wonder if they are in some sense subverted to carry out the will of the Others. Beric and Lady Stoneheart are consumed (pun intended) by the circumstances of their deaths. Coldhands seems apathetic and indifferent but still has a purpose. The ice wights could be made to share the purpose and mindset of the Others. Something else that occured to me is this: the Others seemed content to harry the Wildlings into vacating the lands beyond the Wall and picking off the straglers. They seemed to want to exterminate the Watch all together. This could be a tactical decision in that they didn't have the numbers to do pitched combat with 30000 wildlings as opposed to 300 members of the Watch, but then Tormund's band was much smaller. It seems that they could a lot more damage to it if they put an effort to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, The Sleeper said: Something else that occured to me is this: the Others seemed content to harry the Wildlings into vacating the lands beyond the Wall and picking off the straglers. They seemed to want to exterminate the Watch all together. This could be a tactical decision in that they didn't have the numbers to do pitched combat with 30000 wildlings as opposed to 300 members of the Watch, but then Tormund's band was much smaller. It seems that they could a lot more damage to it if they put an effort to it. My crackpot is that the Others embedded an infiltration unit within Tormund's wildlings. Val going to retrieve them with just a half-blind horse as a companion is deeply suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Tucu said: My crackpot is that the Others embedded an infiltration unit within Tormund's wildlings. Val going to retrieve them with just a half-blind horse as a companion is deeply suspicious. I suppose that is plausible, but it would need work. For instance what would they hope to accomplish and how did they know that Jon would be a. Lord Commander and b. would let them. Also the wildlings died in droves after the battle because they left disorganised and without supplies. Val had transportation, adequate clothing and provisions. She obviously knew what she was doing tracking several thousand people who would have many fires lit day and night should be well within the realm of possibility. On top of that the wights appear to wander about in large bands and might not be willing to go out of their way for a single individual. One thing that is consistent with the Others having special hatred for the Night's Watch is the way they all fell on Waymar Royce once he was down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 9 hours ago, BlackLightning said: If being the keyword. We have no reason to think otherwise. Quote If the wights are "blank" corpses, then it's just a twisted form of sorcery and whether or not it is evil would be up for debate. Why would it be twisted/evil? It's a tool they have and they are using it to win. There are likely very few Others, so they need all the help they can get. Skinchanging is worse than controlling blank bodies. Burning people alive from atop a dragon is worse that controlling blank bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I think portraying the Children of the Forest as not necessarily better/more noble than humans is probably more important - considering that they're expected to be the happy land loving indigenous creatures. That's too simplistic. The Others could be the Children's version of Valyria's dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I like your thought on could this be a,”I am legend “ the movie situation. I’ve been thinking, “TurnOf The Screw” and “Sixth Sense.” We’ve seen two types of creatures up north. Undead and Others. We don’t know if the undead are controlled by something or who may be controlling them. Each behave different. The Others behaved nicely to Waymar until he drew his sword and asked to dance. Others could have been there investigating the massacre as well. Waymar killed his companion or the moleskin gloves did. Skin changing I take literal. As in flaying something and wearing it as your own. Worging as a form of mind control or telepathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Could the word Others be akin to Kneelers? As in “Oathers”? Doesn’t Bran have a strange description of Wildlings,Night Watch, or Others in his first chapter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 They seem to delight in cruelty so, no. Possibly they are no worse than humans, but if my theory about their origins is right and the Others are a formless or essentialy malleable race whose nature is determined by the shape they are given (for example White Walkers and Ice Dragons), than it is likely that they are either as bad as men or worse. It certainly doesn't seem like they are nobler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Stanley Kubrick's ghost would like to have a word with George about this. Spoiler 2001: A Space Odyssey Lots of inspiration to be taken. Especially when it comes to supposedly supernatural species/beings, us, supposedly inferior ancestor type species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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