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Bowen 747

Most people believe Ned Stark was guilty of treason

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Kings landing just wanted to see heads roll. Nothing like a good beheading, and the chance to shit on some nobleman.

They dislike the privileges and luxurious life that the nobility have. And when a traitorous noble is dragged through the streets for execution or trial, the people will take their chance to have a go at the traitor lord.

Whether you think a character is a traitor or not a traitor because of your favour or disfavour towards certain characters. That is all down to you.

However presuming what the population of Westeros believes with simply one piece of evidence in which said evidence contributes to a bunch of small folk doing what most common people do best (whom have no idea of the ongoing politics of the realm). Is rather poor to backup with.

This thread should be renamed to Ned stark was guilty of Treason.” 

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21 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

The Starks will come back into power in the north but nowhere else.  They will learn not to play around in the south.  It ended badly for them.  The dead direwolf was a warning and they failed to take it seriously.  None of the Starks will rule in the south and certainly none will rule Westeros.  The people in the south are not going to want to be ruled by a Stark. 

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8 hours ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

The Starks are almost a default to become kings of the north again but not of the whole of Westeros.  I suppose they could always skin change and enslave the minds of the people and take the lands that way.  It would be sickening because that means they are more evil a family than the Ghiscari slave masters. 

Kings in the north is a yes.  Kings of Westeros is a no.  Unless Martin really wants to punish the people further by inflicting a Stark or Jon Snow on them. 

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6 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Ned Stark did commit treason. He tried to deny Robert's son his rightful throne.  Yeah I know we readers know he is a bastard but when you are only evidence is hair color you got a pretty weak case. 

Ned knew without doubt, he had a confession.

Quote

She sat beside him on the grass. Her every move was graceful. Her curling blond hair moved in the wind, and her eyes were green as the leaves of summer. It had been a long time since Ned Stark had seen her beauty, but he saw it now. "I know the truth Jon Arryn died for," he told her.

"Do you?" The queen watched his face, wary as a cat. "Is that why you called me here, Lord Stark? To pose me riddles? Or is it your intent to seize me, as your wife seized my brother?"

"If you truly believed that, you would never have come." Ned touched her cheek gently. "Has he done this before?"

"Once or twice." She shied away from his hand. "Never on the face before. Jaime would have killed him, even if it meant his own life." Cersei looked at him defiantly. "My brother is worth a hundred of your friend."

"Your brother?" Ned said. "Or your lover?"

"Both." She did not flinch from the truth. "Since we were children together. And why not? The Targaryens wed brother to sister for three hundred years, to keep the bloodlines pure. And Jaime and I are more than brother and sister. We are one person in two bodies. We shared a womb together. He came into this world holding my foot, our old maester said. When he is in me, I feel … whole." The ghost of a smile flitted over her lips.

"My son Bran …"

To her credit, Cersei did not look away. "He saw us. You love your children, do you not?"

Robert had asked him the very same question, the morning of the melee. He gave her the same answer. "With all my heart."

"No less do I love mine."

Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

"All three are Jaime's," he said. It was not a question.

The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon's tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy. Thirty years before that a male Lannister had taken a Baratheon maid to wife. She had given him three daughters and a son, each black-haired. No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittle yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal.

"A dozen years," Ned said. "How is it that you have had no children by the king?"

She lifted her head, defiant. "Your Robert got me with child once," she said, her voice thick with contempt. "My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he's forgotten it all by the next morning."

 

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

Ned confessed in public.  There are people in the north who believe his guilt.  Roose Bolton is one of those.  He had to follow Robb Stark to war because he had no choice.  It was the same with Lady Barbrey and the others.  The Starks have taken the north to war over a family matter in recent memory.  I can truly understand why Roose Bolton would want to get rid of the Starks.  

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Just now, Rondo said:

Ned confessed in public.  There are people in the north who believe his guilt.  Roose Bolton is one of those.  He had to follow Robb Stark to war because he had no choice.  It was the same with Lady Barbrey and the others.  The Starks have taken the north to war over a family matter in recent memory.  I can truly understand why Roose Bolton would want to get rid of the Starks.  

Yes I'm sure Roose believed Ned a traitor, as did Barbrey and the Karstarks. It's truly just a coincidence that the people who turned against the Starks are the ones with deep grudges and ulterior motives. And I'm sure Roose betrayed Robb because Robb turned against Joffrey, not because he's a power hungry psychopath

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8 minutes ago, Rondo said:

There are people in the north who believe his guilt

No, there are not.

 

8 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Roose Bolton is one of those

No, he's not.

 

8 minutes ago, Rondo said:

It was the same with Lady Barbrey and the others

When did they say that they believe him guilty of treason??

 

 

11 minutes ago, Rondo said:

The Starks have taken the north to war over a family matter in recent memory.  I can truly understand why Roose Bolton would want to get rid of the Starks.  

Roose Bolton obliged in both occasions. And almost every civil war is family matter based.

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On 12/22/2020 at 12:34 AM, Bowen 747 said:

The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.

Humans can't be Savage, that's a disgusting thing to say.

And anyhow, the Starks haven't showed to be any more brutal or violent than any other people.

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9 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Humans can't be Savage, that's a disgusting thing to say.

And anyhow, the Starks haven't showed to be any more brutal or violent than any other people.

Right? The Boltons have a flayed man for a sigil. Anyone who calls the Starks savages and ignores the Boltons is making an argument that just can't be taken seriously. Frankly, while there are a few reasons to criticize the Starks, much of the criticims here descend into baseless judgement calls like saying the Starks are savage or dishonorable, or trying to excuse the Boltons and Freys for the same triats they attack the Starks for having. It's all just in bad faith and frustrating to argue against.

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On 12/22/2020 at 4:46 PM, El Guapo said:

Ned Stark did commit treason. He tried to deny Robert's son his rightful throne.  Yeah I know we readers know he is a bastard but when you are only evidence is hair color you got a pretty weak case. 

Very few people know this outside of the Lannister twins.  So yeah, Ned is a treasonous criminal in the opinion of the majority.  I could also say a treason was committed because he kept that information from his king.  Robert was gutted fish but he still had a right to the truth, both as a man and a ruling king. 

We could go farther and say Joffrey is legally the ruler because the Lannisters outfoxed the Baratheons.  There is nowhere written where a power take over has to be done through battle.  All rebellions are technically illegal but Robert himself got the throne that way.  If somebody could take the throne that way why not by cuckolding the king.  And Jaime and Cersei were doing that behind his back for years.  The Lannisters are scum but since when has that kept someone from taking control. 

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1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

So yeah, Ned is a treasonous criminal in the opinion of the majority. 

What majority??

 

1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

I could also say a treason was committed because he kept that information from his king. 

That's somewhat true.

 

1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

We could go farther and say Joffrey is legally the ruler because the Lannisters outfoxed the Baratheons. 

We could not.  He could fake it till the difference was irrelevant tho.

Maybe Aemon the Dragonknight was the father of Daeron 2, maybe not. It's irrelevant now, certainly it was not irrelevant then.

 

1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

There is nowhere written where a power take over has to be done through battle. 

So long as you name yourself Baratheon and there are people that can prove you wrong, You're in deep trouble. Battle also means a change of regime. If the regime doesn't change...

Which is why Cersei is not so eager to tell the truth to the world even when Jaime does not see that way. And she' right.

 

 

1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

All rebellions are technically illegal but Robert himself got the throne that way.

Sure, Robert can also scream to the world that Targs are scum and he wants them all dead. How do you think Cersei and Joffrey would fare if Cersei confessed to the world that she's banging Jaime and cuckolded the King??

 

Edited by frenin

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On 12/21/2020 at 11:57 PM, frenin said:

They do not tho. You should not let mob rule fool you. It's a execution, people fall for that.

These are the same people who got mass raped by Tywin's soldiers and then not a year later went to his daughter wedding dressed like it was sunday church.

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT OMG!!!

On 12/22/2020 at 10:44 AM, Barbrey Dustin said:

I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

There's actually a very good chance that this WILL happen.

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

I don't think he was guilty but it's what the people in the story believes that matter.  Ned got the shaft. 

I agree with the the highlighted.

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On 12/22/2020 at 7:54 PM, The Young Maester said:

Kings landing just wanted to see heads roll. Nothing like a good beheading, and the chance to shit on some nobleman.

They dislike the privileges and luxurious life that the nobility have. And when a traitorous noble is dragged through the streets for execution or trial, the people will take their chance to have a go at the traitor lord.

Whether you think a character is a traitor or not a traitor because of your favour or disfavour towards certain characters. That is all down to you.

However presuming what the population of Westeros believes with simply one piece of evidence in which said evidence contributes to a bunch of small folk doing what most common people do best (whom have no idea of the ongoing politics of the realm). Is rather poor to backup with.

This thread should be renamed to Ned stark was guilty of Treason.” 

The people in the city are a cruel lot.  I guess an execution of a nobleman is a good excuse to vent their frustration against the ruling class.  It is still worrisome for any Stark who wants or needs to win that crowd. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

No on the iron throne but there are other kingdoms and thrones.  The ancient Kings of Winter must surely have had a throne.  Who can say if it still exists in the crypts of Winterfell.  One of them will be King of Winter.  Will the queen also be a Stark?  It's a fun question to ponder.  Ice Queen Val.  Ice Queen Willa. 

The wolves will come again.  Winterfell must have a Stark in residence.  The Boltons will be evicted and the wolves will be back. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

They can also try to pull this off by the old fashioned way.  Conquest.  Roose will lose most of his men during the battle with Stannis.  There won't be enough Bolton men alive in the north to resist the Starks.  The Starks are not gonna care what the other kingdoms think of them. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, Bowen 747 said:

That quote came from the first volume.  I have sympathy for Ned. I even like Ned.  This sad scene happened at Ned's public trial.  I do not think there will be much support for any Stark, full or half, south of The Neck.  Most people believe in the charges against him.  Execution is the appropriate punishment for treason.  His son's response was not appropriate.  We can argue that the Lannister reaction to Tyrion's abduction was also inappropriate.  The Lannisters won round one against the Starks.  @James West is on track to be right in his wolves opinion piece.  The Starks will be back for round 2 and they will be brutal like the savages they are.  But put all of that to the side for now.  On the question of how the public will perceive the Starks in the south, it will be negative.  I do not think any of the Starks, Jon included, will ever sit on the Iron Throne unless the whole of Westeros turns into one Zombieland of Icemen. 

He confessed to treason.  I don't know if that could ever be explained away.  It's not going to be a big deal because the Starks are not staying in the south.  The ones who survive will make their way back to the north. 

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I: What about the families: Are the Starks, say, the Green Bay Packers? 

GRRM: Whenever I propose analogies like that, fans jump in with their own ideas, but it depends on what team you root for. To me, the Starks Roose Bolton and anyone who cheered at Ned's death are heroes, so they would be the Giants. (x

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On 12/22/2020 at 10:46 PM, El Guapo said:

Ned Stark did commit treason. He tried to deny Robert's son his rightful throne.  Yeah I know we readers know he is a bastard but when you are only evidence is hair color you got a pretty weak case. 

Joffrey is not Robert's son.

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