WW84 (Spoilers)

[kairparavel]

@Tywin et al.

Uh, what conditions was it shot and produced in? It was filmed around DC in June of 2018 and was originally set to release last December. 

That ew.com article mentions rushed pre and post production so one wonders what we would have gotten in June.

It missed the mark but it is still better than the other offerings in it's universe, no matter how many times Jason Momoa is shirtless.

[Vaughn]

Now wait one damn minute - I will not idly sit here while the Aquaman movie gets slagged.

I liked the fun bits in Wonder Woman and Aquaman and find that's what's direly missing from all the Snyder dreck. Hoping that lightness is part off WW 1984

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, kairparavel said:

@Tywin et al.

Uh, what conditions was it shot and produced in? It was filmed around DC in June of 2018 and was originally set to release last December. 

That ew.com article mentions rushed pre and post production so one wonders what we would have gotten in June.

It missed the mark but it is still better than the other offerings in it's universe, no matter how many times Jason Momoa is shirtless.

Doesn't that suggest it was sloppily made originally and then when they had to fix it, budgets and the virus kind of screwed it up? 

[JGP]

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Doesn't that suggest it was sloppily made originally and then when they had to fix it, budgets and the virus kind of screwed it up? 

Coming in relatively blind, I'd say it smacks of executive meddling-- which would hardly be surprising given the recent history of DC films. 

---

And... Vaughn?

Aquaman and Shazam both blew goats.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Also what was the point of the opening scene of the movie? It was cool to look at, but didn't connect to anything in the story. Did they just sign all of those actors on for the sequel, only to suddenly realize after writing the script, that they had no place for them in the story?

You don't see any connection to young Diana learning the hard way that cutting corners to win isn't the right way to win?  

[Spockydog]

On 12/26/2020 at 4:43 AM, Corvinus85 said:

And the part with how Steve comes back is going to cause debate. I thought it was the wrong choice, and if nuclear missiles can appear out of thin air, ancient walls rise up without warning, then a dead guy doesn't need to hijack the body of a living one.

 

Didn't like that. At all. As you say, with the level of magic on display, hijacking the meat suit of some random, wanky looking eighties dude was very disappointing. 

And I guess whoever wrote the script has zero understanding of Middle Eastern politics. The Egyptian stuff was beyond offensive. 

And where the fuck was all the eighties music? Aside from Frankie's Pleasuredome, I don't recall any tracks.

Anyway, I can forgive all that, but I can't forgive them serving up an ugly Pedro Pascal. The most heinous absense of facial hair since Viggo Mortensen stopped being Aragorn.

[Myshkin]

1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

 

It missed the mark but it is still better than the other offerings in it's universe, no matter how many times Jason Momoa is shirtless.

Well, it’s not Aquaman bad, but it don’t beat Shazam!

[sifth]

59 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

You don't see any connection to young Diana learning the hard way that cutting corners to win isn't the right way to win?  

That’s stretch, plus Diana giving up Steve to get her powers back sends the same message.

[Raja]

52 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

And I guess whoever wrote the script has zero understanding of Middle Eastern politics. The Egyptian stuff was beyond offensive.

Yeah, I've heard lots of comments regarding stuff like this which has made me wary of the movie. And I quite enjoyed the first one except for the last bits. Anyway, should catch it sometime this week and will post later.

[Spockydog]

Yeah, the first one is infinitely better. 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

You don't see any connection to young Diana learning the hard way that cutting corners to win isn't the right way to win?  

That lesson barely applies to Diana. It fits more for the other characters. Diana at the end sees that maybe, just maybe she could find love again after Steve, but it's hard to apply the life lesson to not cut corners to that.  

[Jaxom 1974]

52 minutes ago, sifth said:

That’s stretch, plus Diana giving up Steve to get her powers back sends the same message.

Sorry you're obviously not seeing the connection there.  

10 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

That lesson barely applies to Diana. It fits more for the other characters. Diana at the end sees that maybe, just maybe she could find love again after Steve, but it's hard to apply the life lesson to not cut corners to that.  

If you aren't seeing that Diana has to struggle with the idea that she cut a corner to get Steve back, to get back what she feels like the only love she's ever to have, and that giving him up is her finally coming to terms with the lesson she learned as a child...*shrug*

[Corvinus85]

18 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry you're obviously not seeing the connection there.  

If you aren't seeing that Diana has to struggle with the idea that she cut a corner to get Steve back, to get back what she feels like the only love she's ever to have, and that giving him up is her finally coming to terms with the lesson she learned as a child...*shrug*

Like I said, it's barely there. She wanted an impossible thing. No matter how many corners she chooses not to cut, she's not getting Steve back. Maybe another love, sure, but not Steve. It's not the same as Lord cutting corners to achieve power and wealth, or Minerva to be admired. 

[sifth]

6 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Sorry you're obviously not seeing the connection there.  

If you aren't seeing that Diana has to struggle with the idea that she cut a corner to get Steve back, to get back what she feels like the only love she's ever to have, and that giving him up is her finally coming to terms with the lesson she learned as a child...*shrug*

I'm pretty sure that was it's intent, but as stated by others it's hardly ever covered in the plot and a huge and expensive gladiator event was not needed for such a moral to be placed in the story.

[Slurktan]

I thought it was silly and goofy, stupid, logically inconsistent, and various other things.  I also loved it (I also love movies like Roadhouse so who knows). It's different, it's not Disney cookie cutter bullshit.  I loved that it is essentially a Superhero wrapped interpretation of Monkey's Paw.

[Slurktan]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:05 PM, Spockydog said:

And I guess whoever wrote the script has zero understanding of Middle Eastern politics. The Egyptian stuff was beyond offensive. 

I don't have a particular grasp of 1980's Egyptian politics, so how so?

[Spockydog]

Just now, Slurktan said:

I don't have a particular grasp of 1980's Egyptian politics, so how so?

Perhaps read a book?

 

[Slurktan]

Just now, Spockydog said:

Perhaps read a book. 

If you want to be a jackass, sure I guess.  Or you could back up a statement so I could understand like a functional adult.  But hey keep getting riled up by fake 1980's Egyptian politics.  Looks good on you. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Perhaps read a book?

 

Perhaps it would be more productive to suggest a few books or articles. You want to inspire curiosity, not create an atmosphere that could shut it down.

ETA: Just see above.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Slurktan said:

If you want to be a jackass, sure I guess.  Or you could back up a statement so I could understand like a functional adult.  But hey keep getting riled up by fake 1980's Egyptian politics.  Looks good on you. 

 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Perhaps it would be more productive to suggest a few books or articles. You want to inspire curiosity, not create an atmosphere that could shut it down.

ETA: Just see above.

Jesus. I mean, the situation in the Middle East is basically the same fucked up mess as it ever was. 

Anyway, the racism on display in this movie is unapologetic and pretty much in your face. And that's without factoring in the optics of Gal Gadot, a former Israeli soldier as well as an enthusiastic Zionist, as the White Saviour bringing water to displaced Arab babies as an evil wall comes tumbling down.

 

Wonder Woman’s Middle Eastern Stereotypes Should Have Stayed in the 1980s

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When Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was released in May of 1984, reviewers were nearly unanimous in their praise. The New York Times’ Vincent Canby described it as “endearingly disgusting … like spending a day at an amusement park,” and Roger Ebert’s four-star rave called it “one of the most relentlessly nonstop action pictures ever made.” It was only in July, when the National Asian American Telecommunications Association and the advocacy group Chinese for Affirmative Action issued a joint statement calling the film—in particular the characters of Shanghai crime boss Lao Che, Chinese child sidekick Short Round, and the Indian Thuggee cult, led by high priest Mola Ram—“racist in [its] portrayal of Asian people” that the conversation about the film’s rampant orientalism began to shift.

As David Sterritt, one of few critics to note Temple of Doom’s racism in his initial review, wrote, Steven Spielberg’s celebration of 1930s adventure serials had sucked up the era’s racist stereotypes as well. “Today’s filmmakers are steeped in movies of the past,” Sterritt wrote, “fond of reviving and rehashing old Hollywood conventions, including some that there’s no reason to be proud of.”

Like the Indiana Jones series, Wonder Woman 1984 is consumed by affection for the movies of an earlier time—and like Temple of Doom, it revives the era’s noxious ethnic stereotypes along with its Members Only jackets. Almost four decades after Sterritt wrote those words, WW84 shows how little has really changed when it comes to Hollywood’s treatment of other countries and other cultures, in particular those of the Middle East and North Africa. A decade after the Iranian Green Movement and Arab Spring, WW84 indulges a view of Middle East and North Africa, or MENA, that bears little resemblance to its myriad and unique identities, in the 1980s or now.

 

 

Wonder Woman 1984: Another white saviour

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A particularly problematic sub-plot has been raising conversations amongst internet communities. The sub-plot in question takes place in Egypt where WW’s rival solicits an evil Arab warlord (oil-rich and power hungry, naturally). 

The reality of Egypt in 1984 versus the portrayal of Egypt in 1984 was offensive, to say the least. Depictions of a devolved place where everyone donned traditionally inspired garments is out of touch, as many Egyptians took to Twitter to post pictures of themselves or their families during that year to highlight this fallacy and misrepresentation.