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WW84 (Spoilers)


Jaxom 1974

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This movie was terrible for all the reasons people are mentioning here... the giant plot holes in particular...he can only grant one wish, except when it two... he has to be touching you, unless it's through the TV... wind currents, , hackneyed action sequences, barely any Cheetah... etc...  but the one things that rarely gets mentioned ( I guess because of how bad the movie was overall) is that...

Spoiler

Diana rapes this guy... Steve inhabits his body --he has no agency, and shows no interest in her at the end of the flick-- and she still fucks him.... if Capt. America had "wished" Peggy carter back into the body of another woman and fucked her, it would sure as shit be rape...  it's no different than banging someone who is unconscious... 

 

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It was okay.

I feel like they tried to fit too much into it. Superhero sequels like to throw more than one villain into sequels for some reason. Cheetah ended up being a letdown. A lot of time spent building up a five minute Cats reprise no one asked for. Maxwell Lord and the Monkey's Paw-- there were hints of a godly connection, and channeling Gordon Gecko, and the Midas theme, but how did he know about the Monkey's Paw? And why did he feel the need to go that far? He wanted to be a success, he wanted to heal himself, but it seems like he could've done it without the world domination. Trying to throw so much in to raise the stakes ended up with something that was long and a little bloated.

Like Jaxom I see the connection to the movie's opening scene. I feel like the point was made without it, but I saw the link as pretty self-evident.

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Not only does she rape him, but they also take his body on a incredibly dangerous adventure, where he steals a high tech government plane and is being shot at by professional goons. Neither Diana or Steve ever even think of the poor guy and how wrong is to steal his life , but instead they part ways because she is losing her powers!

It's funny because the movie attempts to make a grand statement about misogyny and how men are bad (except Steve!), but itself ends up being misandrist on multiple levels. It would be even funnier if Steve decided to kill himself again just like in a first movie, and they never mention this other innocent man whom he also killed.

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6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No idea what you are on about here. I suspect that whole conversation will derail this thread though.

Yes, you're right. Because you'd probably come up with some bollocks about feminism gone too far, before whining about men being in danger of becoming a minority on their own planet, blah blah gammon blah.

So let's not even go there, eh?

 

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Just now, Spockydog said:

Yes, you're right. Because you'd probably come up with some bollocks about feminism gone too far, men in danger of becoming a minority on their own planet, blah blah blah.

So let's not even go there, eh?

 

Sounds like a bit of conspiracy to me.

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10 minutes ago, divica said:

What are you trying to say?

That all the criticism of the film is because the main character is a women?

no he's saying certain people here exhibit very predictable patterns and then try to gaslight everyone into thinking that they dont have some serious biases. 

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15 minutes ago, Relic said:

no he's saying certain people here exhibit very predictable patterns and then try to gaslight everyone into thinking that they dont have some serious biases. 

No, he’s saying all criticism of the film would disappear if the main character was a man. Looking at the reviews in this thread I seriously don’t think that is true.

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The whole Steve taking over another mans body was dumb and shouldn't have been in the film to begin with. We have magic at play here, so why couldn't he have simply come back to life? To be honest the whole thing sort of reminded me of the show Supernatural and how the character Castiel is in fact an angel who's taken over the body of a character named Jimmy. Sam and Dean go on all sorts of crazy adventures with Castiel, all the while ignoring that Cas is in fact putting Jimmy's life in danger the whole time. I mean as an angel Cas is pretty hard to kill, but that's besides the point. Jimmy even descries in one episode, as the whole experience being the equivalent of being chained to a comet, lol

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19 minutes ago, Relic said:

no he's saying certain people here exhibit very predictable patterns and then try to gaslight everyone into thinking that they dont have some serious biases. 

 

4 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

No, he’s saying all criticism of the film would disappear if the main character was a man. Looking at the reviews in this thread I seriously don’t think that is true.

And I think this is exactly the current problem with hollywood. Wether the stories and filming are good one of the first things to be discussed by everybody is the genre, color and all those things related to the people involved in the project. People even defend that critics of the movies/series are based on personal opinions about feminism, racism and whatever... 

We are getting to a pretty toxic level where noone is satisfied. It is sad that ww was one of those projects where this problem didn t happen. Both sides liked the first movie. However, like it has happened in so many other projects now one side prefers to say that the critics are related to personal biases instead of acepting or dealing wtih the critics.

Imagine if people defended the first season of iron fist because it had a white male main character...

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6 minutes ago, divica said:

 

And I think this is exactly the current problem with hollywood. Wether the stories and filming are good one of the first things to be discussed by everybody is the genre, color and all those things related to the people involved in the project. People even defend that critics of the movies/series are based on personal opinions about feminism, racism and whatever... 

We are getting to a pretty toxic level where noone is satisfied. It is sad that ww was one of those projects where this problem didn t happen. Both sides liked the first movie. However, like it has happened in so many other projects now one side prefers to say that the critics are related to personal biases instead of acepting or dealing wtih the critics.

Imagine if people defended the first season of iron fist because it had a white male main character...

To be fair, that level of toxicity isn't confined to Hollywood. I think it's a symptom of wider conversations everywhere.

You're right about the first Wonder Woman movie though, pretty much everyone seems to agree that it was a decent to good movie, some people loved it, but I haven't seen too many that hated it. I think that's because outside of any social issues it did some objectively good things and was well made, and people recognise that. It seems this movie is objectively bad in a number of ways that people can pin point, that have nothing to do with the sex of the main character. It's a very strange criticism to bring up if you ask me.

 

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The Pitch Meeting guy(s) have taken a punt on this one.

I still haven't gotten around to the original, but this is kind of making me want to watch the sequel. It looks Cats levels of bad.

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Well, I posted my thoughts in a different thread before I saw this one, so here they are below. I actually got to see WW84 in a theatre with overpriced movie popcorn because we have single digit COVID cases in the province. 
 

To follow some of the comments above, I agree that the depiction of 1984 Egypt was ridiculous and ahistorical. (Though I will maintain re that article that Temple of Doom isn’t so much racist as an exercise in Orientalist Exoticism, chilled monkey brains aside... also 1935 Shanghai always felt gloriously period specific.)
 

The Good:

The villains! Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord character didn’t end up with the clearest of motivations, but I enjoyed watching him throughout. As a well-meaning version of 80s Trump he worked really well. Kristen Wiig’s Barbara Minerva started out as a bit of a caricature (echos of Pfeiffer’s Catwoman) but she’s always a magnetic presence on screen. Her initial Cheetah (was the name ever even mentioned?) progression was interesting and well-handled.  Unfortunately, the movie forgot about her by the epilogue, so her story didn’t get any kind of resolution. And she was absolutely right that Diana was patronizing and condescending her, essentially from the moment they met.

Otherwise some of Steve’s fish out of water experiences were amusing. And Lord’s reunion with his son at the end was well done even if the plot didn’t earn the moment. 

I enjoyed the monkey’s paw aspect to the dream stone plot, but it was disappointing that it didn’t come with a free frogurt. Generally the Simpsons covered this plot better in 1992.

The Bad:

The pacing was all over the place. As usual with superhero movies in the last 10 years, it was way over long at over 2 and a half hours. But the worst thing for me was Gal Gadot’s performance. She was wooden and boring. As I said above, she was patronizing to Barbara, and seemed to get impatient or annoyed with her throughout as if she should be her personal assistant. Or something. I don’t get what they were going for with that. And I was really confused why she didn’t interrogate Steve’s sudden unexplained reappearance. She hardly reacted at all, other than to be “in love” once again. 
 

Some of the plot points made not a bit of sense. Why does the Smithsonian have a hangar and tarmac with a fueled jet? Or a whole runway? How does a 1980s jet get from DC to Cairo without refueling? Where did they land in Egypt? Why does 1984 Cairo look like it did in Raiders of the Lost Ark? How does Steve know how to fly a jet? 

Finally, the rivalry between WW and Cheetah, despite being played up in the trailer, amounted to a brief fight scene at the White House and a badly animated CGI fight near the end. It wasn’t great. 

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