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Cersei is more sympathetic then Robert


Alyn Oakenfist

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So until AFFC my opinion of Robert was that he seemed a decent enough fellow for Westeros slowly poisoned by bitterness but with a good side still remaining. After AFFC thought, I firmly put him at the bottom of my character list, over Aerys, Roose, Ramsay and Walder, thought not by much. Being bitter about his lot in life and being unhappy with his wife is one thing. Raping her is quite another. I mean shit, I get Cersei wanting to cuckhold him, heck she was justified in doing it to him. So am I the only one that after AFFC is more sympathetic to Cersei then Robert?

LE Just to remind everyone, in AFFC we learn that dear Robert is a rapist

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Cersei is sympathetic for suffering through an abusive, unhappy marriage. The problem is, at the same time we're learning about Robert's mistreatment of her, we're also learning that she murdered her best friend when she was ten and sends people who annoy her to be tortured by Qyburn, the mad scientist. So while she may be the sympathetic partner in the context of their marriage, I wouldn't say that Robert's a worse person than she is. 

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They were both equally horrible to each other. It was a toxic marriage. Worst thing Robert probably did was allowing the murder of babes and abusing his wife. Joffrey deserved the beating he got. Robert had many faults but they didnt involve murdering other people for the smallest of things.

Other than that you gotta compare Cersei whom was violent and cruel by nature. Since she was a teenager, she tried to further her own ambitions from murdering her friend to manipulating Jamie into the kingsguard so that they can fuck whenever they want. Let’s not forget when she murdered the twins Robert fathered at casterly rock, and sold the mother to a slaver.

Than you have this shit

"What will be done with them, if I may be so bold?"

"Any men of substance shall be fined. Half their worth should be sufficient to teach them a sharp lesson and refill our coffers, without quite ruining them. Those too poor to pay can lose an eye, for watching treason. For the puppeteers, the axe."

 

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From Cersei POV she’s an innocent victim and all her actions are just, not spite or vengeance. She does not take criticism well.

One act of striking a child does not make you a child abuser. I think she goaded Robert into honor/hitting her and just lied about everything else. Jamie would most likely not abide.

I don’t condone Robert’s actions, but I get it. A shocked hit to cadaver cat Joffery, that’s a pass in my book. Dire wolf Lady killer Cersei should of had a spanking. And I don’t condone spanking, but....

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5 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Any men of substance shall be fined. Half their worth should be sufficient to teach them a sharp lesson and refill our coffers, without quite ruining them. Those too poor to pay can lose an eye, for watching treason. For the puppeteers, the axe."

Cersei trying to be like Tywin here ^ “making an example of people” using violent stockyard cruelty is similar to the way Tywin handled deserters.

Quote

 

Wildlings, krakens, and dragons." Mace Tyrell chuckled. "Why, is there anyone not stirring?"
Lord Tywin ignored that. "The deserters serve us best as a lesson. Break their knees with hammers. They will not run again. Nor will any man who sees them begging in the streets." He glanced down the table to see if any of the other lords disagreed.
Tyrion remembered his own visit to the Wall, and the crabs he'd shared with old Lord Mormont and his officers. He remembered the Old Bear's fears as well. "Perhaps we might break the knees of a few to make our point. Those who killed Ser Jacelyn, say. The rest we can send to Marsh. The Watch is grievously under strength. If the Wall should fail . . ."
". . . the wildlings will flood the north," his father finished, "and the Starks and Greyjoys will have another enemy to contend with. 

 

I found Cersei at her most sympathetic when she made girlish doodles of her marrying Rhaegar and her being so crushed about it falling through, and Tywin forced her to marry again. Basically when she’s like Sansa.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

Cersei is a full blow psychopath without any limits, Robert is just a massive jerk, that drinks and gets agressive.

 

Cersei is a woman in a very patriarchal society that sees her as little more than a breeding tool for a man’s legacy. She is not valued for anything except her ability to push out children. Cersei is not given a chance to be something more than what her father and others have assigned her in life. She is straight evil but I don’t really blame her for some things and I pity her for most. 
 

Robert was a waste of space who had every opportunity to do the opposite of what he did. He was a talented warrior, a high born noble, and most importantly, a male. Robert had the world at his feet but wasted it over and over. Gawd I hate him! 

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2 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Cersei is a woman in a very patriarchal society that sees her as little more than a breeding tool for a man’s legacy. She is not valued for anything except her ability to push out children. Cersei is not given a chance to be something more than what her father and others have assigned her in life. She is straight evil but I don’t really blame her for some things and I pity her for most. 

She is also a psycho that indulged at incest, tortured her baby brother, killed her best friend when she was ten, killed two of Robert's bastards for pride, sold the mother to slavery, send countless people to be torture by a maniac, and raised another psychopath in Joffrey. Cersei is just as awful as Ramsey, she  just doesn't do the job herself.

Being a woman, is not the same of being incapable, Cersei just can't handle power, Ned trusted Catelyn to rule the north when he left, Ladies like Oakhearth, Dustin, Hornwood and Whent rule in their own name. Olenna and Margeary seems very ok, Asha is capable of projecting herself in a much more chauvinistic culture, Cersei is just a psycho that sees herself above the rules, and it's to dumb to think of the consequences of her actions.

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I definitely have more sympathy for Cersei than Robert. And Robert definitely is one of the worst kings ever, simply for setting up a kingdom to explode and disintegrate upon his death.

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5 hours ago, Eliscat said:

From Cersei POV she’s an innocent victim and all her actions are just, not spite or vengeance. She does not take criticism well.

One act of striking a child does not make you a child abuser. I think she goaded Robert into honor/hitting her and just lied about everything else. Jamie would most likely not abide.

I don’t condone Robert’s actions, but I get it. A shocked hit to cadaver cat Joffery, that’s a pass in my book. Dire wolf Lady killer Cersei should of had a spanking. And I don’t condone spanking, but....

I'm not talking about the hitting here (though still a massively dickless move) but about the rapes

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On first impression, no. Later, yes. Cersei is a full blown psycho but has at least has some excuses for being the way she is or at least exacerbating her worst traits. Robert never let anything come before his own gratification and probably have caused more damage through his negligence. The court that imploded into the war was his responsibility. 

Ultimately this is a subjective judgement. However, both can be said to be products of that toxic mindset, of seeing other people as lesser. 

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12 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

They were both equally horrible to each other. It was a toxic marriage. Worst thing Robert probably did was allowing the murder of babes and abusing his wife. Joffrey deserved the beating he got. Robert had many faults but they didnt involve murdering other people for the smallest of things.

Having the power to stop evil things, and do nothing, is a bit more than just a little bad.

Domestic abuse is not ok any time of the day or in any situation. Simple as that.

True that Robert didn't murder too many people, he "only" allowed others to do it on his watch and left his friends and brothers to die because he was a coward. I like Robert and can sympathize with him but I can't give him a pass for his neglect and cowardice.

5 hours ago, The Wolves said:

Cersei is a woman in a very patriarchal society that sees her as little more than a breeding tool for a man’s legacy. She is not valued for anything except her ability to push out children. Cersei is not given a chance to be something more than what her father and others have assigned her in life. She is straight evil but I don’t really blame her for some things and I pity her for most.

I totally agree with your view about the hand Cersei was dealt although I wouldn't go that far in regards to Robert.

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Being a woman, is not the same of being incapable, Cersei just can't handle power, Ned trusted Catelyn to rule the north when he left, Ladies like Oakhearth, Dustin, Hornwood and Whent rule in their own name. Olenna and Margeary seems very ok, Asha is capable of projecting herself in a much more chauvinistic culture, Cersei is just a psycho that sees herself above the rules, and it's to dumb to think of the consequences of her actions.

These women also rule as lesser ladies and not as queens meaning that they are not under nearly the pressure and with as many bull's eyes painted on them as Cersei has. Now Cerseri is no exceptional person, but a person being put into that situation with, to my knowledge, pretty much no preperation or training shouldn't suprise us if that person fails pretty badly.

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5 hours ago, Lion of the West said:

These women also rule as lesser ladies and not as queens meaning that they are not under nearly the pressure and with as many bull's eyes painted on them as Cersei has. Now Cerseri is no exceptional person, but a person being put into that situation with, to my knowledge, pretty much no preperation or training shouldn't suprise us if that person fails pretty badly.

We also have queens that ruled besides her husbands and were capable enough.

The biggest examples are probably Viseny, Alyssa Velaryon and Alysanne. Cersei is just a awful ruler, her mistakes have little to do with her gender.

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19 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So until AFFC my opinion of Robert was that he seemed a decent enough fellow for Westeros slowly poisoned by bitterness but with a good side still remaining. After AFFC thought, I firmly put him at the bottom of my character list, over Aerys, Roose, Ramsay and Walder, thought not by much. Being bitter about his lot in life and being unhappy with his wife is one thing. Raping her is quite another. I mean shit, I get Cersei wanting to cuckhold him, heck she was justified in doing it to him. So am I the only one that after AFFC is more sympathetic to Cersei then Robert?

Hey how about Cersei's genocide campaign against Robert?

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29 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:
19 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So until AFFC my opinion of Robert was that he seemed a decent enough fellow for Westeros slowly poisoned by bitterness but with a good side still remaining. After AFFC thought, I firmly put him at the bottom of my character list, over Aerys, Roose, Ramsay and Walder, thought not by much. Being bitter about his lot in life and being unhappy with his wife is one thing. Raping her is quite another. I mean shit, I get Cersei wanting to cuckhold him, heck she was justified in doing it to him. So am I the only one that after AFFC is more sympathetic to Cersei then Robert?

Hey how about Cersei's genocide campaign against Robert?

Does no one care about the Sperm-Roberts?

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