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Cersei is more sympathetic then Robert


Alyn Oakenfist

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I think this question is one of the more complex of the story, on one hand it is not deniable that Robert mistreated and sexually abused of Cersei, but sadly the story is not set in our world but in a place where they're is no such thing as a spouse raping is partner. Still that is what Robert did and is for me the one thing that he cannot be excused of. Is hate for the Targaryen is somewhat justified politically and emotionally since they are both a threat to his rule and he considers them collectively at fault for the death of is "one true love". Then again he is only directly involved in the death of Rhaegar (on the battlefield so a kill or be killed situation) and the attempted on Viserys and Dany for which he later try's and retract himself. All in all outside the SA on is wife, which make him worthless in my eyes but in Westeros is not something that is really seen as bad since it is part of the mariage for Westeros, he is a sad and pathetic man that was once seen as a paragon.

But on the other hand we have Cersei, and she is one if not the nastiest piece of work in the whole Seven Kingdoms. She ordres the torture and murder of innocent, possibly sold a woman into slavery (most likely sexual slavery) for having our estranged husband children after killing those children. She then has all know illegitimate children of said husband tract down and murdered with anyone who oppose them. She killed one of her friend at the tender age of ten, abused our brother for most of is life. She seems to only actually care for Joffrey only paying secondary attention to her other two kids. She sleeps around (not a bad thing) with men that look like her and that are completely at her mercy (Lancel is still a teenager when she start a relation with him and Jaime is completely devoted to her when the opposite is not exactly true). Sure she can be said to be fighting a patriarcal system that make her do all those horrible things, but other women seem to managed it without causing so much pain and destruction, and she also is completely sexist, she does not believe that women should be equal to men, she believes that SHE is equal (and most of the time superior) to men, her and her only.

So in the end while both characters are really unsympathetic to me, Cersei comes out as more antipathic. Robert is a rapist not question and outside of that a mediocre man trying to be decent. But Cersei she is like a serial killer, she is just full of hate, spite and evil; and like a lot of serial killer's she suffered abuse, but that does not excuse them of what they do and it certainly does not excuse her.

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1 hour ago, Vaegon the dragonless said:

But on the other hand we have Cersei, and she is one if not the nastiest piece of work in the whole Seven Kingdoms. She ordres the torture and murder of innocent, possibly sold a woman into slavery (most likely sexual slavery) for having our estranged husband children after killing those children. She then has all know illegitimate children of said husband tract down and murdered with anyone who oppose them. She killed one of her friend at the tender age of ten, abused our brother for most of is life. She seems to only actually care for Joffrey only paying secondary attention to her other two kids. She sleeps around (not a bad thing) with men that look like her and that are completely at her mercy (Lancel is still a teenager when she start a relation with him and Jaime is completely devoted to her when the opposite is not exactly true). Sure she can be said to be fighting a patriarcal system that make her do all those horrible things, but other women seem to managed it without causing so much pain and destruction, and she also is completely sexist, she does not believe that women should be equal to men, she believes that SHE is equal (and most of the time superior) to men, her and her only.

As the wife of the King,  Ernie could have had the power she wanted so much. I think GRRM sets up a contrast deliberately between her, Dany and Margaery Tyrell. Dany and Marg are both women, but are able to use their position to wield power through Drogo and Tommen much more effectively.

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1 hour ago, Lee-Sensei said:

As the wife of the King,  Ernie could have had the power she wanted so much. I think GRRM sets up a contrast deliberately between her, Dany and Margaery Tyrell. Dany and Marg are both women, but are able to use their position to wield power through Drogo and Tommen much more effectively.

Arianne as well.

I think the point of having Arianne in the story is to show what a "good, normal" version of Cersei would look like

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2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Arianne as well.

I think the point of having Arianne in the story is to show what a "good, normal" version of Cersei would look like

I love Arianne so much. Despite clearly using Arys Oakheart for her own plans, she still cared for him, and mourned his death. On the other hand the only person Cersei ever mourned was Joff.........one of the evilest characters in the series. She wasn't even all that upset at Tywin's passing, since it meant she no longer had to remarry. I can only imagine what her reaction to Kevan's death will be.

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On 11/25/2021 at 12:18 PM, EggBlue said:
  • and Robert's abuse and rape could be aligned with Cersei's treatment of the people she casually sent to Qyburn , her schemes for poor Margery and the men she just didn't like ( the Summer Islander guy for example) , abusing little Tyrion , seducing her teenage cousin -who is not much older than her own son by the way- and thinking of how he is disgusting and should have died instead of Tywin after she sees him recovering after battle!! and her murder of Melara.

what a close run

I'm not really getting this.  This is not to condone drunk Robert stumbling up to Cersei's bedchamber and expecting to have sex whether she wants it or not (It's worth pointing out that in universe this is exactly what Robert's "right" is and, morally objectionable or not, he does not realise he is doing anything wrong; Dany and Drogo's storyline has a similar problem though with a different conclusion) but I don't see the comparison. 

I don't see how put this in the same bracket as Cersei having people murdered (and murdering her friend herself).

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On 7/3/2022 at 7:33 PM, sifth said:

I love Arianne so much. Despite clearly using Arys Oakheart for her own plans, she still cared for him, and mourned his death. On the other hand the only person Cersei ever mourned was Joff.........one of the evilest characters in the series. She wasn't even all that upset at Tywin's passing, since it meant she no longer had to remarry. I can only imagine what her reaction to Kevan's death will be.

I can't imagine Cersei being too upset at Kevan's death, outside of thinking the Tyrells did it (since Varys plans to frame the Tyrells).

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On 7/3/2022 at 5:33 PM, sifth said:

I love Arianne so much. Despite clearly using Arys Oakheart for her own plans, she still cared for him, and mourned his death. On the other hand the only person Cersei ever mourned was Joff.........one of the evilest characters in the series. She wasn't even all that upset at Tywin's passing, since it meant she no longer had to remarry. I can only imagine what her reaction to Kevan's death will be.

She also saw Tywins death as her opportunity to rule, which is all she really wanted. Cersei’s love is narcissistic. She loves people as extensions of herself. Great character though, but a terrible person. Probably just below people like Gregor and Ramsay. Worse than Joffrey or Viserys IMO.

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On 7/3/2022 at 5:09 PM, BlackLightning said:

Arianne as well.

I think the point of having Arianne in the story is to show what a "good, normal" version of Cersei would look like

I'd throw Asha in as another Cersei contrast, since Asha is living a life that Cersei seems to want on some level and Cersei has the resources that Asha would want to use to improve the Iron Islands, but despite working with less Asha is more adjusted than Cersei is.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/5/2021 at 11:21 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

There's no proof she started banging Jaime again until after the rapes given how exited she describes herself on her wedding, and frankly after the rapes I can't blame her for cuckolding Robert and comiting genocide on his sperm.

 

On 1/5/2021 at 5:03 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I mean tbf, Cersei does think about it with a sadistic glee that is bloody hilarious when you realize it's only semen, and then sad when you realize she only thinks that way because of the rapes.

 

 

Cersei abused her brother since he was born and she wasn't yet a teenager.

She murdered her best friend.

She manipulated her brother for his entire life.

She concocted a plan, from the get go, to cuckold the king. First it was meant to be Rhegar and then it became Robert. There was no intention whatsoever of staying loyal to either of those men. Her children are to be inbred, so they can resemble her. Her joy at marrying Robert was at the prospect of being Queen. 

She cheats on her brother and Robert with many other men.

She raises maniacs for children and allows them to grow up to be monsters.

She sells people into slavery.

She orders murders of dozens of children, explicitly orders it. 

She sends dozens if not hundreds to be tortured and experimented on by Qyburn.

She witnesses the tortures and abuses of Sansa Stark and does nothing. 

 

And then we have a guy who just didn't care that potential civil war causes got killed and that gets drunk because he can't get over losing the "love of his life". Yep, just about the same right there. 

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