The Secret Song of Florian and Jonquil: Sansa Stark, Daughter of Coincidences and Honey Bees

[Stormy4400]

Hi everyone,

I'm Sandra aka Stormy4400. While this is my first post (I think), I actually registered on the site several years ago with the intention joining in the discussion of our favorite book series. However, with life and work, I never had the time to post on this site as well as the other two where I discuss the books. I lurked on and off and several thought provoking discussion threads have been recommended to me that I totally enjoyed reading.

About a year ago, someone told me that I should post some of my essays on the forum for discussion. I considered it at the time but decided against it as my one foray into posting on a different site than usual generated little to no discussion.  However, someone again recently suggested the same thing and so I decided to take the bull by the horn and jump into the fray.

Some consider my theories to be tinfoil while others are opened to the ideas. Whether tinfoil or of sound basis, I do support them with textural and real world mythological clues. George will eventually provide an answer but in the meantime, I love to hear other's thoughts on the subject. Positive or negative, I look forward to reading all feedback and thoughts on my theory.

The essay I'm posting is the first section of Part Seven of my Florian and Jonquil essay series. It discusses the many ways George connects Sansa to the ancient characters of Nissa Nissa and the corpse queen; her ties to the magical aspect of the story and why George placed her in the Vale of Aryn.  If you are interested in reading the complete chapter, I've included a link at the end to the second section. Also, please let me know if I've posted in the wrong section.  And so with a deep breath, I jump in.

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Many months ago, I ended the last chapter in this essay series by proposing that Jonquil was both the female progenitor of House Stark, and the corpse queen. I will be discussing this idea in-depth in a future chapter but before I get to that topic, I want to show how George has strongly and symbolically connected Sansa Stark not just to the ancient mystery of the corpse queen but also to the one surrounding Nissa Nissa.

To show this connection, I have to discuss a curious amount of symbolic coincidences that’s coalesced around Winterfell’s daughter. And so, while the title of this chapter probably seems a bit strange for an essay series about Florian and Jonquil, it’s actually not because at the center of those coincidences I mentioned, are bees and honey.  Those of you who have read some of my previous writings maybe familiar with this idea. 

However, this essay is a much deeper dive into the theory as I connect most if not all the dots. As is usually the case, it’s a pretty long with lots of supporting quotes. I’ve bolded the interesting parts for easy reference.

I’m always hearing that Sansa does not have a role to play in the magical side of the story and Lady’s death is usually given as proof that this will be the case. Supposedly, with Lady’s death, Sansa connection to magic was curtailed and so her role now is limited to the political side of things. To say the least, I find this to be an extremely shortsighted theory as book evidence strongly suggests that Sansa at least still has her skin changing abilities.

In actual fact, I happen to think that the killing of Sansa’s direwolf is probably one of the strongest pieces of evidence in support  of her continued connection to magic. However, I’ve discussed the important symbolism of Lady’s death in other essays, including Do Direwolves Dream of the Weirwood Net and so I don’t want to linger on the topic.

In my essay titled, Of Bran and Sansa Stark, I broke down all the many ways that George compares Sansa to Bran, highlighting what I argue are her greenseer abilities.  Now I want to discuss the synchronized list of coincidences that he uses to connect her character to important magical ones of the ancient past and how her landing in the Vale of Arryn bears this out. There are so many of these symbolic and mythological coincidences that to think she won’t be a big part of the magical storyline is to me at least, kind of silly.

Before I get into the many coincidences, I want to ask you to keep in mind a little rule of grammar and speech and that is how in many languages, *i* and *y* are often used interchangeably. The pronunciation of *y* sounds like an *i* and words with a long *i* sound are often spelled with a *y.* It’s also why words that end in *y* are changed to *ies* when made plural.

As an example, pinky becoming pinkies in its plural form. George even does this switching a few times in the text like in the spelling of Varamyr vs Varamir. Think of how Tolkein spells a similar sounding name, in his case, Faramir with the *i* as opposed to the *y.* This little spelling quirk will be of importance later but for now, let’s dig in.

In ASOIAF, George borrows from many real-world myths to flesh out his story. One of the important ones he plays with is that of the mythological underworld. There are many symbolic underworlds in his story, starting with the caves of the COTF, which are ultimately symbolic of the realm of the Weirwood Net, as the metaphysical realm is called by the fans.

In addition, there is the labyrinth beneath the House of Black and White in Braavos, the tunnels beneath the Red Keep, and the icy Eyrie to name just a few. All of these locations are represented as symbolic underworlds.  However, as others before me has pointed out, the most important underworld symbol in the story is the North with Winterfell and the crypts where the dead Kings of Winter reside, as its center.

While Martin plays off the legends of numerous real-world myths, Greek and Roman mythology is often front and center.  This he has done with the North set up as a symbolic underworld in the style of Hades and the Lord of Winterfell as the king of the realm. Martin even gives the Stark kingdom its own version of the River Styx, which must be crossed in order to gain admittance. Not all are welcome in the underworld and it’s difficult to cross the river without guidance.

The northern underworld version of the Styx is of course the Neck and its Charron or Ferryman is the Lord of House Reed. Here is a description of the real-world mythological Styx.

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In Greek mythology, Styx is a deity and a river that forms the boundary between Earth and the Underworld (the domain often called Hades, which also is the name of its ruler). The rivers Styx, Phlegethon, Acheron, Lethe, and Cocytus all converge at the center of the underworld on a great marsh, which sometimes is also called the Styx.

And here is the description of the Neck.  Martin’s creation sounds a lot like the marshlands of the Styx river.

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It was the North and the North alone that was able to keep the Andals at bay, thanks to the impenetrable swamps of the Neck and the ancient keep of Moat Cailin. The number of Andal armies that were destroyed in the Neck cannot be easily reckoned, and so the Kings of Winter preserved their independent rule for many centuries to come.

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Arrival of the Andals

 

A marsh, a swamp, and a bog are of course different words for the same type of watery forest landscape. Do you want to know the location of another swampy area in Westeros? I’ll tell you. The unnamed river that is fed from the Gods Eye, which is located by the unnamed town that Yoren and Arya passed through.

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The river was a blue-green ribbon shining in the morning sun. Reeds grew thick in the shallows along the banks, and Arya saw a water snake skimming across the surface, ripples spreading out behind it as it went. Overhead a hawk flew in lazy circles.

A Clash of Kings - Arya IV

 

How do we know that it’s a swamp? Well, the water snake provides a hint but the abundance of reeds is the bigger clue. Reeds, both literally and in the case of Howland and his house, symbolically, grow in swamps and bogs. And so, it’s interesting that there is a marshland and a swampy river in the vicinity of the Gods Eye Lake with the Isle of Faces sitting smack in the center. We don’t know much about the Isle but it may turn out to be the second most important symbolic underworld after the North and Winterfell.

As with *i* and *y,* I want you to keep in mind the description of swamp and marshes as it will also come into play shortly. Now back to the symbolic usage of Greek and Roman mythology in George’s tale.

One of the most famous Greco-Roman myth is that of Persephone, her abduction by Hades, god of the underworld and the search by her desperate mother, Demeter to find her daughter.  In ASOIAF, there are repeated echoes of this myth throughout the books in one manner or another.

There is the “abduction” of Lyanna Stark by Rhaegar Targaryen, which led to the eventual downfall of his house. We also see it in Petyr, a pseudo Hades’ abduction of Sansa, and him taking her to the Vale of Arryn. And of course, there is the ancient tale of Bael the Bard with his demonic name, who absconded with the Winter Rose of House Stark and hid out in the crypts of Winterfell, which as I mentioned is the center of the most important symbolic underworld in the story.  

Many will no doubt argue that Lyanna is the main representation of the abducted princess in the story but they would be wrong. Lyanna is not part of the story proper and she suffered a permanent death, which was not the case with Persephone, or Proserpina as she was called by the Romans. The Greco-Roman goddess suffered a symbolic death when she taken to the underworld but she did not die.  No, the most important Persephone in our tale is Sansa Stark.

George sets Sansa up as the strongest personification of Persephone in the story when he placed her in the Eyrie a symbolic icy underworld that’s located in the *Vale* of Arryn.  I told you to keep in mind how *i* and *y* are often used interchangeably in words. Another couple of things you should remember is the mythological importance of George placing Sansa in the Vale.

Vale is another word for valley or dale located between hills or mountains, and as we will see shortly, one plays a major role in the abduction of Persephone.

To reinforce the idea that Sansa is the most important Persephone character, George has Petyr, a pseudo Hades tempt her with pomegranate seeds, which unlike in the real-world myth, Sansa refuses. I call Petyr a pseudo Hades because he is not the ruler of the North, the true symbolic underworld in the story and as such, can’t be the true Hades. This suggests that Sansa still has to be “stolen” by the true Lord of the Underworld.

Now let’s get to those coincidences I mentioned as we look at some of the many ways in which real world myths and George’s tale intersect in regard to Sansa. The first coincidence I want to discuss is a tale from the ancient past, which has surprising resonance and importance to Sansa’s storyline.

The story is told in TWOIAF and it only encompasses two lines. One of the great things about TWOIAF is that other than being a great addition to the myth building of the world he created; George also dropped a ton of clues about the story proper and the ancient mysteries at the heart of the tale. Two such clues are stories of two of the daughters of Garth Greenhand, the legendary God King like deity from the Dawn Age.

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The story of the Reach begins with Garth Greenhand, the legendary progenitor not only of the Tyrells of Highgarden, but of the Gardener kings before them…and all the other great houses and noble families of the Green Realm as well.

A thousand tales are told of Garth, in the Reach and beyond. Most are implausible, and many contradictory. In some he is a contemporary of Bran the Builder, Lann the Clever, Durran Godsgrief, and the other colorful figures of the Age of Heroes. In others he stands as the ancestor of them all.

Garth was the High King of the First Men, it is written; it was he who led them out of the east and across the land bridge to Westeros. Yet other tales would have us believe that he preceded the arrival of the First Men by thousands of years, making him not only the First Man in Westeros, but the only man, wandering the length and breadth of the land alone and treating with the giants and the children of the forest. Some even say he was a god.

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Garth Greenhand

 

We are not here to discuss Garth as that subject would require its own essay. I posted the above excerpt to show that he was considered a god by many. Garth was a fertility god and some of those flowers he helped bloom were not just of the plant variety. Garth is said to have impregnated many of the daughters of the Reach…hence why practically all of the regional Houses can trace their ancestry back to him. Garth actually sounds a lot like Zeus, the father of Persephone in this manner.

My mentioning of Garth is also to introduce you to the legend of one of his daughters…actually two but the first one is the most important for this essay. The daughter in question is Ellyn Ever Sweet. In all the books that comprise the story of ASOIAF, there are only two brief sentences that mention Ellyn. Nonetheless, if you look deeply, you will discover that George packs a lot into those two sentences.

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Ellyn Ever Sweet, the girl who loved honey so much she sought out the King of the Bees in his vast mountain hive and made a pact with him, to care for his children and his children’s children for all time. She was the first beekeeper, and the mother to House Beesbury.

The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Garth Greenhand

 

These two brief and simple sentences really don’t seem to say much but there is actually a lot of textural clues buried in them.  Would you be surprised if I told you that Ellyn was part of a triangle involving one of her sisters and quite likely the “King of the Bees?” Can you discern that from the two sentences above? Well, I didn’t either until I came across a major clue that George dropped a bit later in the book.

This original triangle might also quite possibly be why George has included so many romantic threesomes throughout his story. Aegon and his two wives; Rhaegar, Lyanna and Robert; Daario, Dany and Hizdahr; Jaime, Cersei and Robert; and Petyr, Cat and Ned to name just a few. History repeats…just not in the same way. Most of the modern threesomes seem to involve one woman and two men as opposed to the original and so, George seems to be flipping the script this time around.

The second daughter at the center of the ancient triangle is this one.

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Rowan Gold-Tree, who was so bereft when her lover left her for a rich rival that she wrapped an apple in her golden hair, planted it upon a hill, and grew a tree whose bark and leaves and fruit were gleaming yellow gold, and to whose daughters the Rowans of Goldengrove trace their roots.

As with the Ellyn Ever Sweet, George barely tells us anything about Rowan Gold-Tree. In addition to this brief passage, her name only appears one other time in the text in any of the published books that encompasses the world George created. This second reference is in TWOIAF when she is mentioned as the possible mother of Lann the Clever. You are probably wondering why I’m proposing that she was the third wheel in the triangle involving Ellyn and the King of the Bees?

Well, as he’s wont to do, George drops the answer a little bit later in TWOIAF when he tells us the story of a daughter of House Reyne. This is of course the house that was famously extinguished by Tywin Lannister, which led to the equally famous song, The Reynes of Castamere that was played at the Red Wedding.

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The most significant death by far that stemmed from the Peake Uprising was that of King Maekar himself, but the chaos this caused has been abundantly chronicled elsewhere. Less well-known, but no less baleful, are the dire effects the battle had upon the history of the west. Tywald Lannister had long been betrothed to the Red Lion’s spirited young sister, Lady Ellyn. This strong-willed and hot-tempered maiden, who had for years anticipated becoming the Lady of Casterly Rock, was unwilling to forsake that dream. In the aftermath of her betrothed’s death, she persuaded his twin brother, Tion, to set aside his own betrothal to a daughter of Lord Rowan of Goldengrove and espouse her instead.

Lord Gerold, it is said, opposed this match, but grief and age and illness had left him a pale shadow of his former self, and in the end he gave way. In 235 AC, in a double wedding at Casterly Rock, Ser Tion Lannister took Ellyn Reyne to wife, whilst his younger brother Tytos wed Jeyne Marbrand, a daughter of Lord Alyn Marbrand of Ashemark.

—TWOIAF, The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons

 

Hmm! So, *Ellyn* Reyne stole the fiancé of a daughter of House Rowan. The same house whose lineage can be traced back to Rowan Golden-Tree. Do you think that George was trying to tell us something? And don’t you just love how he very subtly includes the word baleful in his description.

Why is this probable ancient triangle important and what does it have to do with Sansa’s arc? Well, while the story of Rowan is of symbolic importance that I plan to discuss a bit more in future essays, as I’ve mentioned above, Ellyn is the important daughter of note for this particular analysis. And the answer to the question of why she is important to Sansa’s storyline is bees, honey, the identity of the King of the Bees and the location of his vast mountain hive.

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In mythology, the bee, found in Indian, ancient Near East and Aegean cultures, was believed to be the sacred insect that bridged the natural world to the underworld.

Bee Mythology - Wikipedia

 

 

“Aegean civilization is a general term for the Bronze Age civilizations of Greece around the Aegean Sea,” which is of course the time of period of time when Greek myths were popularized—one of the most famous being that of Hades and Persephone.

As I’ve mentioned in previous essays, in mythology, honey is like ambrosia or nectar, which were considered the food of the gods. In fact, Wilhelm Heinrich Roscher, a German classical scholar who specialized in the studies of Greco-Roman mythology proposed just this theory.

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W. H. Roscher thinks that both nectar and ambrosia were kinds of honey, in which case their power of conferring immortality would be due to the supposed healing and cleansing powers of honey,which is in fact anti-septic, and because fermented honey (mead) preceded wine as an entheogen in the Aegean world; on some Minoan seals, goddesses were represented with bee faces (compare Merope and Melissa).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosia

 

 

In ASOIAF, George uses honey as his symbolic food of the gods. I suspect that this is because if he used the term ambrosia, it would have been a bit too obvious and he doesn’t like making things too easy for readers. Here are two great examples of Dany and Bran eating different version of weirwood paste, which opens both their consciousness to visions of the higher plane.

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Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue was a taste like honey and anise and cream, like mother’s milk and Drogo’s seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them … and then the glass was empty.

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

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He ate.

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. "I don’t feel any different. What happens next?”

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

 

Ellyn Ever Sweet being such a lover of honey and bees, hints at her being a warg. In fact, all of Garth’s children should probably be seen as skin changers. The description of Ellyn strongly indicates that she was the “queen bee.” As bees were also seen as sacred creatures who travel between the three worlds, her being the *first* beekeeper also suggests that she was a greenseer, and not just any greenseer, but quite possibly the first. Now what about this pact between Ellyn and the King of the Bees?

Well, let’s consider the types of pact that existed in real world medieval societies and how George has utilized the practice in the same way in his story. Pacts are generally about ending wars or joining two Houses in harmony though marriage. And often times, these two types of pacts are one and the same.

We’re told of the ancient conflict between the Children of the Forest and the First men that lasted for generations. This conflict only ended when a pact between the two sides was forged.

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Regardless, the children of the forest fought as fiercely as the First Men to defend their lives. Inexorably, the war ground on across generations, until at last the children understood that they could not win. The First Men, perhaps tired of war, also wished to see an end to the fighting. The wisest of both races prevailed, and the chief heroes and rulers of both sides met upon the isle in the Gods Eye to form the Pact. Giving up all the lands of Westeros save for the deep forests, the children won from the First Men the promise that they would no longer cut down the weirwoods. All the weirwoods of the isle on which the Pact was forged were then carved with faces so that the gods could witness the Pact, and the order of green men was made afterward to tend to the weirwoods and protect the isle.

With the Pact, the Dawn Age of the world drew to a close, and the Age of Heroes followed.

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Coming of First Men

 

Curiously, we’re also told of a second pact from this ancient period, and that is the one between Ellyn Ever Sweet and the King of the Bees. Is it possible that these pacts were connected and might the two have been even one and the same? I propose that the answer is yes and that like in medieval times and in instances in the story itself, this ancient between the two rivals involved a marriage between the first greenseer and daughter of the COTF, and a representative of the First Men. I also theorize that this King of the Bees was in fact a dragon lord.

The world book tells us that Ellyn made the pact with the king who lived in a vast mountain fastness and promised to care for his children and their children for generations. Sounds like a marriage union to me.  She’s also described as the first beekeeper and it is here that we start seeing those coincidental connections to Sansa kick in.

Here is the thing! There is only one mountainous region in the story connected to bees and that is the Vale of Arryn. Cat, Tyrion and Sansa all think to themselves how the Eyrie looks like a honeycomb. Here are a few passages that I think support my theory as well as what I think the symbolism of the King of the Bee implies.

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Catelyn looked up. Directly overhead, pale in the dawn light, she could see the foundations of the Eyrie. It could not be more than six hundred feet above them. From below it looked like a small white honeycomb. She remembered what her uncle had said of baskets and winches. “The Lannisters may have their pride,” she told Mya, “but the Tullys are born with better sense. I have ridden all day and the best part of a night. Tell them to lower a basket. I shall ride with the turnips.”

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VI

 

The Arryns kept the only dungeon in the realm where the prisoners were welcome to escape at will. That first day, after girding up his courage for hours, Tyrion had lain flat on his stomach and squirmed to the edge, to poke out his head and look down. Sky was six hundred feet below, with nothing between but empty air. If he craned his neck out as far as it could go, he could see other cells to his right and left and above him. He was a bee in a stone honeycomb, and someone had torn off his wings.

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion V

 

"AWAY!” came Ser Lothor’s shout. Someone shoved the bucket hard. It swayed and tipped, scraped against the floor, then swung free. She heard the crack of Mord’s whip and the rattle of the chain. They began to descend, by jerks and starts at first, then more smoothly. Robert’s face was pale and his eyes puffy, but his hands were still. The Eyrie shrank above them. The sky cells on the lower levels made the castle look something like a honeycomb from below. A honeycomb made of ice, Alayne thought, a castle made of snow. She could hear the wind whistling round the bucket.

A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

 

It’s interesting that Tyrion considers himself a bee with clipped wings and it’s the cells that are compared to honeycombs. It suggests some type of imprisonment of the queen.  Ok! I think that’s sufficient evidence to support the idea that George wants us to see the Vale and Eyrie as the residence of the King of the Bees. Let’s now look at what his moniker implies.

There is no such thing as a King Bee. Male bees are drones, whose only job is to mate with the queen. Male drones are expelled from the hive in late autumn as its focus changes to one of warmth and food conservation. They also die soon after mating with the queen because the “penis and associated abdominal tissues are ripped from the drone’s body after sexual intercourse.” By the way, I think the eunuch theme running throughout the story may tie into this aspect of the male drone.

Also, unlike female bees, drones do not have stingers and they don’t gather nectar nor pollen. They are pretty toothless without the queen bee. This means that for there to be a King of the Bees, he would have had to kill the queen and usurped her throne in some manner. And it would have been in a magical manner because the female worker bees of the hive would not accept a male king.

Just who was this King of the Bees? Well, I theorized in one of my older essays, On the Hunt For Azor Ahai and the Bloodstone Emperor that he was Symeon Star Eyes. While some of my theories have evolved, I still hold that Azor Ahai and Symeon Star Eyes were one and the same.

George plays on the idea of the male bee usurping the queen with Petyr’s killing of Lysa. In Littlefinger’s case, he is attempting to take over the hive by using and controlling a new not yet fully-grown queen by the name of Alayne Stone. There are also echoes of the ancient triangle between Ellyn Ever Sweet, the King of the Bees and Rowan Golden-Tree in the story of Lysa, Petyr and Cat.

As Tyrion realizes, Littlefinger has a liking for sweet things.

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“If there are any Tullys left when we are done.”

Littlefinger looked like a boy who had just taken a furtive bite from a honeycomb. He was trying to watch for bees, but the honey was so sweet. “Harrenhal and all its lands and incomes,” he mused. “With a stroke, you’d make me one of the greatest lords in the realm. Not that I’m ungrateful, my lord, but—why?”

“You served my sister well in the matter of the succession.”

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IV

 

Remember how Sansa makes note of Littlefinger’s breath smelling like mint? I think that little detail is George playing with the fact that mint is a bee balm. Mint attracts bees and Petyr is symbolically using mint to calm and capture the queen so that he can take over the hive. It succeeded with Lysa but it won’t with Sansa. As a young queen, the mint momentarily tempts her but she is stronger that Petyr realizes, and resists.

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"Your mother was my queen of beauty once,” the man said quietly. His breath smelled of mint. “You have her hair.” His fingers brushed against her cheek as he stroked one auburn lock. Quite abruptly he turned and walked away.

A Game of Thrones - Sansa II

 

Sansa tried to step back, but he pulled her into his arms and suddenly he was kissing her. Feebly, she tried to squirm, but only succeeded in pressing herself more tightly against him. His mouth was on hers, swallowing her words. He tasted of mint. For half a heartbeat she yielded to his kiss … before she turned her face away and wrenched free. “What are you doing?”

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

The interesting thing about Lysa’s name is that it’s a shortened version of Alyssa as in Alyssa Arryn, the ancient queen of the Vale.

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Alyssa Arryn had seen her husband, her brothers, and all her children slain, and yet in life she had never shed a tear. So in death, the gods had decreed that she would know no rest until her weeping watered the black earth of the Vale, where the men she had loved were buried. Alyssa had been dead six thousand years now, and still no drop of the torrent had ever reached the valley floor far below. Catelyn wondered how large a waterfall her own tears would make when she died. "Tell me the rest of it,” she said.

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn VII

 

Both Lysa and Alyssa are two of those words that can also be spelled with an “i” as in Lissa or Alissa. They are also shortened versions of Melissa, which finds its origin in the Greek language and surprise, surprise, means bee.

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Melissa is a given name for a female. The name comes from the Greek word μέλισσα (mélissa), “bee", which in turn comes from μέλι (meli), “honey". In Hittite, melit signifies “honey.”

According to Greek mythology, perhaps reflecting Minoan culture, making her the daughter of a Cretan king Melisseus, whose -issos ending is Pre-Greek, Melissa was a nymph who discovered and taught the use of honey and from whom bees were believed to have received their name. She was one of the nymph nurses of Zeus, sister to Amaltheia, but rather than feeding the baby milk, Melissa, appropriately for her name, fed him honey. Or, alternatively, the bees brought honey straight to his mouth. Because of her, Melissa became the name of all the nymphs who cared for the patriarch god as a baby.

Wikipedia

 

 

Melissa in her caring of Zeus sounds a lot like Ellyn Ever Sweet…doesn’t she? It’s almost as if George wants us to associate bees and honey with the Vale for some reason—a location where he has coincidentally plopped the eldest daughter of House Stark. Let’s look a bit more at these coincidences.

It so happens that there is a mythological character strongly associated with Sansa Stark that is also connected to bees and honey. This would of course be Persephone who was known as the “honeyed one.”  Bees are also associated with Persephone and her mother Demeter through the Eleusinian Mysteries performed by the cult that worshipped the two goddesses. You can read more about the mysteries here.

Persephone’s nickname among the ancient Greeks was Melitodes or “honeyed one” and the priestess of Persephone and Demeter’s cult were known as Melissai or “bees.” 

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In addition, the ancient Greek philosopher, Porphyry (233 to c. 304 AD) wrote of the priestesses of Demeter, known as Melissae (“bees”), who were initiates of the chthonian goddess. The story surrounding Melissae tells of an elderly priestess of Demeter, named Melissa, initiated into her mysteries by the goddess herself. When Melissa’s neighbors tried to make her reveal the secrets of her initiation, she remained silent, never letting a word pass from her lips. In anger, the women tore her to pieces, but Demeter sent a plague upon them, causing bees to be born from Melissa’s dead body. From Porphyry’s writings, scholars have also learned that Melissa was the name of the moon goddess Artemis and the goddess who took suffering away from mothers giving birth. Souls were symbolized by bees and it was Melissa who drew souls down to be born. She was connected with the idea of a periodic regeneration.

Wikipedia

 

 

Now this is where things get really interesting. Remember I told you to keep the interchangeable usage of “i” and “y” in mind. Well, it just so happens that Persephone was abducted by Hades from the *Vale of Nysa.* 

Hmm! Do you think Nysa could possibly be spelled Nisa or even Nissa? Might Persephone’s abduction from the Vale of Nysa have inspired George in the naming of the ancient female character at the center of the mystery that permeates in the current storyline. I would say that the answer is yes.

Was it the only inspiration?  As we will shortly see, probably not.  However, as George is on record as stating that he can’t write a character until he knows their name, I strongly suspect that the name of the location from where Persephone was kidnapped was one of the relevant inspirations for Nissa Nissa’s name.

Quote

 

In the Homeric “Hymn to Demeter,” the story is told of how Persephone was gathering flowers in the Vale of Nysa when she was seized by Hades and removed to the underworld. Upon learning of the abduction, her mother, Demeter, in her misery, became unconcerned with the harvest or the fruitfulness of the earth, so that widespread famine ensued. Zeus therefore intervened, commanding Hades to release Persephone to her mother. Because Persephone had eaten a single pomegranate seed in the underworld, however, she could not be completely freed but had to remain one-third of the year with Hades, and spent the other two-thirds with her mother. The story that Persephone spent four months of each year in the underworld was no doubt meant to account for the barren appearance of Greek fields in full summer—after harvest, before their revival in the autumn rains, when they are plowed and sown.

Encyclopedia Brittanica

 

 

Persephone becomes Hades’ wife and Queen of the Underworld after her abduction. Sansa is Queen/Lady of Winter of the Northern Underworld but she ran to the South, the Summer Kingdom and away from her identity both literally and symbolically. She does have the blood of Summer in her but it is not her place. She can visit but it is not hers to rule, which is what she intended.

Winter queens are weakened in summer and this is what happened to Sansa. The North is the dominion of Winter as the South is the realm of the Summer Kings. However, Bran who like Sansa is of both the North and South has been marked as the ruler of Summer, not Sansa. This is indicated by the name Bran gave his direwolf upon waking from his coma. And Sansa is marked as the Lady of Winterfell when Ned sends her direwolf bones back home to be buried.

Jon also has been marked and like Sansa, his true identity is in the North. Sansa ran from hers and Jon is afraid to claim his. However, they both must do so if the war is to be won.

Quote

 

Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too.

The memory made Arya smile, and after that the darkness held no more terrors for her. The stableboy was dead, she’d killed him, and if he jumped out at her she’d kill him again. She was going home. Everything would be better once she was home again, safe behind Winterfell’s grey granite walls.

A Game of Thrones - Arya IV

 

Arya’s happy memories of playing in the Winterfell crypts hints not just at Jon’s death but also his return as a King/Lord of Winter. He is covered in flour like a ghost but he also steps out of one of the tombs that are specifically reserved for the Kings and Lords of Winter.  

In addition to hinting as Jon’s death and return as a King of Winter, there is symbolic importance in Sansa running away. She runs away from Ghost Jon who as the Winter King in the scene is also a symbolic Hades, the Lord of the Underworld. And so, Sansa’s running out of the crypts is metaphorically as if Persephone was attempting to escape from Hades and her place at his side as Queen of the Underworld where she belongs.  

This is why Sansa doesn’t eat the pomegranate offered to her by Petyr. He is not her Hades or rather Pluto as I think that Jon is symbolic of this more favorable aspect of the Lord of the Underworld . It’s also why when Jon descends to the lower levels of the crypts, I expect Sansa to be by his side. They both have to descend to claim their identity.

I’m going to end this section here because this has turned into an extremely long chapter. I’m splitting it into two with the second part coming tomorrow where we will pick right up with Persephone’s abduction from the Vale of Nysa, discuss a certain honey making tree and explore the role jonquils play in both her myth as well as Sansa’s arc.

________

This was the first section of Part 7 of my Florian and Jonquil essay series. If you are interested in reading more…including the clues that suggest the jonquil flower is the famous blue winter rose; how it ties into the myth of Persephone and Hades, why George placed Sansa in the Vale of Aryn, and further evidence that ties the flower to Nissa Nissa and honey as the food of the gods, you can check out part two HERE.

 

 

 

[Nathan Stark]

I read this essay with great interest. It is a great theory and your presentation makes quite a lot of sense. I will read the rest of your essays too. 

[Brandon Ice-Eyes]

Great essay, I think a lot of people underestimate how important symbolism is in ASOIAF.

[Nathan Stark]

There is also a lack of theories regarding Sansa generally. The only other theory regarding this character that I know of is the one about her green cloak being Sandor Clegane's Kingsgaurd cloak dyed green. This essay is a particularly interesting one because it ties Sansa to magic, which I haven't seen discussed very often.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

I’m excited for more.

6 hours ago, Stormy4400 said:

take the bull by the horn and jump into the fray.

As a fellow lurker myself I’ve learned any use of the word “Frey” can get heated.

[Stormy4400]

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

There is also a lack of theories regarding Sansa generally. The only other theory regarding this character that I know of is the one about her green cloak being Sandor Clegane's Kingsgaurd cloak dyed green. This essay is a particularly interesting one because it ties Sansa to magic, which I haven't seen discussed very often.

@Nathan Stark Thanks for reading. I'm glad that you found it an interesting theory. As I stated in the essay, I think that it's shortsighted to think that Sansa's arc is only about politics and that she won't be connected to the magical side of the storyline. There are so many clues in the books that suggest otherwise.

George has also assigned many of the same symbolism to her as he has to Bran. However, where with Bran, the symbolism is seen as connecting Bran to the magical storyline, with Sansa, it is assigned a political purpose. Don't get me wrong, the symbolism is not always obvious as George has been pretty tricksy in how he has hidden the comparison but it is there and once you see it, you can't unsee and you start seeing more and more.

Thanks again for reading.

[Stormy4400]

11 hours ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

Great essay, I think a lot of people underestimate how important symbolism is in ASOIAF.

@Brandon Ice-Eyes Thanks for reading.  Glad that you liked it. I agree with you about the underestimation of the symbolism in the story. George writes in symbolism and so it's very important to understanding his story. However, as important as symbolism is to the story, I think that sometimes something just the opposite occurs and people miss the trees for the symbolism. Everything becomes symbolic and what George is clueing us in about the story proper is missed.  This is something I think often happens in analysis of some character arcs...including Sansa.

[Stormy4400]

9 hours ago, Eliscat said:

I’m excited for more.

As a fellow lurker myself I’ve learned any use of the word “Frey” can get heated.

@Eliscat Thanks for reading and the pun warning.   Did you read the second section?

[Mourning Star]

There are so many great mythological parallels worth mentioning here!

A few of my favorites:

The Story of Acteon, is one I can only hope Ramsey Bolton lives up to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actaeon

It should be noted that Acteon was the son of Aristaeus, the god who taught man beekeeping. Acteon's death is often seen as an analogy for human sacrifice, something that obviously fits with the ASoIaF theme and House Bolton in particular.

Virgil wrote of Aristaeus and tells the tale of Eurydice, wife of the musician Orpheus. Aristaeus chases after her, and she steps upon a venomus snake, and promptly dies. After much weeping and traveling to the underworld, Orpheus is allowed to leave with Eurydice following, so long as he does not look back until after he leaves the underworld. Of course, at the last minute he looks back and she is lost to him until his eventual death reunites them. A tale with a striking parallel to that of Lot (and Lot's wife)... and to Dany trying to return a loved one from the underworld: "This was no god's work," Dany said coldly. If I look back I am lost. "You cheated me. You murdered my child within me."

But I digress, and should return to the topic at hand... the name Melissa, or Bee.

Melissa was the nymph who cared for Zeus, who was changed into an earthworm by Cronus as punishment and then changed into a bee by Zeus as a reward. According to the all knowing Wikipedia:  Under the guidance of Melissa, the Nymphs not only turned men away from eating each other to eating only this product of the forest trees, but also introduced into the world of men the feeling of modesty.

I cannot help but compare that to the House of the Undying: "No," Pyat screeched. "No, to me, come to me, to meeeeeee." His face crumbled inward, changing to something pale and wormlike. Before Dany reaches the heart room and the Undying try to eat her!

The Wikipedia quotes a bit of orphic poetry: Let us celebrate the hive of Venus, who rose from the sea: that hive of many names: the mighty fountain, from whence all kings are descended; from whence all the winged and immortal Loves were again produced.

The Hive of Venus, referring to the name Melitta (Melissa), is said to be the progenitor of kings. Much like Old Garth Greenhand!

Finally, for now anyway, the connection to the Sumerian Goddess of Inanna is worthy of note. First there is also a story which resembles that of Orpheus and lot, and her symbol (in cuneiform) is the twisted reeds of a doorpost.

One of Inanna's other major symbols is the eight pointed star (although the number of points did vary, seven pointed star obviously being the symbol of the new faith in Westeros), as seen in my user icon! The eight pointed star was directly associated with the Planet Venus, which when seen in the sky is also called the morning, and evening star. This symbol often appears near the symbol for the crescent moon, Sin, or Nanna, and the solar disc or sun, Utu/Shamash.

In Inanna's Descent to the Underworld, unlike any other deity, Inanna is able to descend into the netherworld and return to the heavens. The planet Venus appears to make a similar descent, setting in the West and then rising again in the East.

The potential for parallels abound in Inanna's tales, so I will conclude with this one straight from the old Wikipedia:

The myth of "Inanna and the Huluppu Tree", found in the preamble to the epic of Gilgamesh, Enkidu, and the Netherworld centers around a young Inanna, not yet stable in her power. It begins with a huluppu tree, which Kramer identifies as possibly a willow,[116] growing on the banks of the river Euphrates. Inanna moves the tree to her garden in Uruk with the intention to carve it into a throne once it is fully grown. The tree grows and matures, but the serpent "who knows no charm", the Anzû-bird, and Lilitu, the Sumerian forerunner to the Lilith of Jewish folklore, all take up residence within the tree, causing Inanna to cry with sorrow. The hero Gilgamesh, who, in this story, is portrayed as her brother, comes along and slays the serpent, causing the Anzû-bird and Lilitu to flee. Gilgamesh's companions chop down the tree and carve its wood into a bed and a throne, which they give to Inanna, who fashions a pikku and a mikku (probably a drum and drumsticks respectively, although the exact identifications are uncertain), which she gives to Gilgamesh as a reward for his heroism.

It doesn't take much of a stretch to see the parallel to a serpent as a dragon, the anzu-bird as a three eyed crow and Lilith as a daemon of the night who takes babies (Others!)... and the huluppu tree itself as a weirwood.

 

[Melifeather]

Are you asserting that Ellyn Ever Sweet and Ellyn Reyne are the same person?

 

I loved your essay, by the way. It was wonderful to read, informative, and you've quite won me over. I too love to pore over the symbolism, metaphors, and allegories in ASOIAF. The story is so much richer and I am always amazed that GRRM is able to draw from so much mythology, actual history, and even comics and tie it all together. It just works. It's extremely complex and intellectual. There's nobody that can write like him and he's ruined me for any other author! I look forward to the next segment! Bravo!  

[Melifeather]

Just a few quick thoughts regarding part 2...

Parallels don't have to be exact. In fact many of the parallels in ASOIAF are currently inverted. Jon and Sansa could still be modern parallels of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa and the inverted part is that he won't usurp her position. He'll be too busy fighting off the dead with his flaming sword encased in black ice.

In fact, all of history is reversing and sort of "un-doing" itself. Think of the order of migration to Westeros. The First Men came first, then the Andals with their Faith of Seven, then Nymeria led her Rhoynar to Dorne and inter-married, and lastly the Targaryens united the Seven Kingdoms. And where is the story now? The Targaryens are gone, replaced by the Andals again, but the Andals are being threatened by their own Faith. Arianne, representing Dorne, is on her way to propose a marriage alliance with Young Griff, who arrived to Westeros by way of the Rhoyne. The northern First Men are have gathered at Winterfell and are about to face off with Stannis, who I believe is reprising the role of King Sherrit the ancient King who called down his "curse" from the Nightfort. Meanwhile, the. current Lord of Winterfell has the King Beyond the Wall in a cage (maybe). Not quite an alliance, but who knows what happened the last time the King Beyond the Wall partnered with the Lord of Winterfell to take down the Nights King. Lord Commander Jon Snow appears to be about to become the new Nights King, but since history is rolling in reverse and undoing itself, I think the Nights King will prevail over the Lord of Winterfell this time and Jon can be "in the crypts" (since he's an undead creature) for Sansa like you suggest, waiting for her to become the Queen in the North - another inverted parallel to when the First Men were the only humans in town. The Nights King didn't marry this time, but he did marry off his cousin Alys Karstark to the Magnar of Thenn, who I believe represents the Others - a male Other this time.

[Melifeather]

Oh hey. Don't forget Elenei, in your Ellyn/Ellen/Helen/etc. She was the daughter of the sea god and goddess of the wind who became mortal to marry Durran Godsgrief. Another marriage that ended up taking a woman's power away from her.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

5 hours ago, Stormy4400 said:

@Eliscat Thanks for reading and the pun warning.   Did you read the second section?

Not as yet, I read the first before bed. Woke up thinking of Orpheus...and shall read the second tonight.

[Stormy4400]

4 hours ago, Melifeather said:

Are you asserting that Ellyn Ever Sweet and Ellyn Reyne are the same person?

 

I loved your essay, by the way. It was wonderful to read, informative, and you've quite won me over. I too love to pore over the symbolism, metaphors, and allegories in ASOIAF. The story is so much richer and I am always amazed that GRRM is able to draw from so much mythology, actual history, and even comics and tie it all together. It just works. It's extremely complex and intellectual. There's nobody that can write like him and he's ruined me for any other author! I look forward to the next segment! Bravo!  

@Melifeather Absolutely no about Ellyn Reyne being Elly Ever Sweet.

My point is that George is a very deliberate writer. He never writes anything without a reason. After telling us the brief legends of Ellyn Ever Sweet and her sister Rowan Gold-Tree, he drops a more modern take of a similar situation a few chapters later that involved characters with the same names. Even more interesting is that one of the participants in the more modern tale is from the same family started by one of the ancient daughters of Garth.  

I think that it's George's way of clueing us in that the two ancient stories of the two daughters of Garth Greenhand are connected and that it involved some type of triangle.  And any triangle from the ancient past—and so far there have been no additional ones hinted at, most likely was the original that is constantly symbolically referenced in the current storyline. It's very easy to miss the connection if you are not familiar with how George writes and drops clues.

Regarding your other posts...yes, things are definitely inverted this time around as the modern Azor Ahai is quite likely a woman in the form of Dany. And you are right, parallels don't have to be exact. However, I'm more incline to think that the Night's King was a relative of Azor Ahai and not AA himself. And as as I've proposed, I think that Jon and Sansa will be the modern day stand-ins for NK and CQ. Don't get me wrong, Jon symbolism positions him as both AA and NK.  However, I believe in the long run, it's NK who he most strongly represents.

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the read.

[Melifeather]

18 minutes ago, Stormy4400 said:

@Melifeather Absolutely no about Ellyn Reyne being Elly Ever Sweet.

My point is that George is a very deliberate writer. He never writes anything without a reason. After telling us the brief legends of Ellyn Ever Sweet and her sister Rowan Gold-Tree, he drops a more modern take of a similar situation a few chapters later that involved characters with the same names. Even more interesting is that one of the participants in the more modern tale is from the same family started by one of the ancient daughters of Garth.  

I think that it's George's way of clueing us in that the two ancient stories of the two daughters of Garth Greenhand are connected and that it involved some type of triangle.  And any triangle from the ancient past—and so far there have been no additional ones hinted at, most likely was the original that is constantly symbolically referenced in the current storyline. It's very easy to miss the connection if you are not familiar with how George writes and drops clues.

Regarding your other posts...yes, things are definitely inverted this time around as the modern Azor Ahai is quite likely a woman in the form of Dany. And you are right, parallels don't have to be exact. However, I'm more incline to think that the Night's King was a relative of Azor Ahai and not AA himself. And as as I've proposed, I think that Jon and Sansa will be the modern day stand-ins for NK and CQ. Don't get me wrong, Jon symbolism positions him as both AA and NK.  However, I believe in the long run, it's NK who he most strongly represents.

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the read.

While I’m not married to the idea that Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, I disagree it’s Daenerys. Daenerys is a dragonlord, but one that frees slaves. She’s also the mother of dragons - the origin. I seriously doubt she even comes to Westeros. In one of the tales Azor Ahai slays a great beast. And an important feature of Azor Ahai is a sword. Was it a literal sword? It could be metaphorical. Either way Daenerys isn’t associated with swords. At all.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Stormy4400 said:

It's very easy to miss the connection if you are not familiar with how George writes and drops clues.

I took offense to this comment that you so casually dropped. Hopefully it was innocently., albeit thoughtlessly done and without malice. I’ve only just met you and was enjoying the discussion up to this point.

[Stormy4400]

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

I took offense to this comment that you so casually dropped. Hopefully it was innocently., albeit thoughtlessly done and without malice. I’ve only just met you and was enjoying the discussion up to this point.

@Melifeather 

Hi, believe me, absolutely no offense intended and my apologies if it came across that way. The internet can sometimes suggest tone when none is intended.

When I wrote that sentence, I was actually relating the thought to myself and my experience at reading the series. George's writing is very dense and I totally missed the clues about Ellyn and Rowan the first and second time I read TWOIAF.  

My first reading of the ASOIAF was somewhat on a surface level. I knew that I loved the books and George's use of real-world mythology to build his world. However, I didn't truly appreciate the depth of his endeavor.  It's was only after I came back to series after the show launched and I started to interact with other fans online that I truly came to understand what he had accomplished.  

Interacting with the fandom enabled me to come to an understanding of George's writing style and how he hides his clues. It has helped me pick up on things that I totally missed on previous readings. I've read the series on many occasions over the years and even now, I discover something new on re-reads.  I'm constantly amazed when I notice something and it's a testament George's talent that 20 years after reading the first book, I'm still discovering something new every day.

I've had my own online experience with fans and "experts" who think their understanding of the text is the only one that makes sense to ever do something similar to others. Over the years of interacting with the fandom and lurking on boards, I've also seen the negative impact such behavior has had on others...many of whom just stopped participating. Such behavior is something I don't endorse and consciously strive to avoid.  

If I post an essay, I'm opening myself up to feedback—both positive or negative and I'm perfectly ok with that. I've often times had the latter over the years. I don't need anyone to endorse my theories because at the end of the day, George is the only one who can confirm them in either case. What I do truly enjoy is the discussion and it's why I delurked.

I'm here for the discussion and to expose myself to new ideas and theories. I don't consider myself an expert on the books. All I have are theories, opinions and some surface knowledge of mythology. Nothing more! Nothing less! And so, if you ever feel that I'm coming across as pompous in anyway, please feel free to say..."hey, Stormy, that might have sounded a bit condescending there." Believe me, I'll thank you for it...as is the case now. 

[Stormy4400]

1 hour ago, Melifeather said:

While I’m not married to the idea that Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, I disagree it’s Daenerys. Daenerys is a dragonlord, but one that frees slaves. She’s also the mother of dragons - the origin. I seriously doubt she even comes to Westeros. In one of the tales Azor Ahai slays a great beast. And an important feature of Azor Ahai is a sword. Was it a literal sword? It could be metaphorical. Either way Daenerys isn’t associated with swords. At all.

@Melifeather I think that symbolically, Dany's sword is Drogon. The dragons are often compared to swords in the text, the most popular one probably being the quote from Xaro.  I suspect that's why on the show, the dragon's flame shot out like a sword.

Quote

"When I went to the Hall of a Thousand Thrones to beg the Pureborn for your life, I said that you were no more than a child," Xaro went on, "but Egon Emeros the Exquisite rose and said, 'She is a foolish child, mad and heedless and too dangerous to live.' When your dragons were small they were a wonder. Grown, they are death and devastation, a flaming sword above the world." He wiped away the tears. "I should have slain you in Qarth."—A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys III

I think that she comes to Westeros. She's too important a character not to be in the final thick of things and George  has been building up her return to the land of her birth since the beginning of the books. 

[Nathan Stark]

One aspect about part 2 I don't really understand here is the timeline. The Others first arrived during the Long Night, which predates the Night's King and his Corpse Queen. So if they were Florian and Jonquil/Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, how could they have created the first Others? The Long Night would already have happened.

[Melifeather]

5 hours ago, Stormy4400 said:

@Melifeather I think that symbolically, Dany's sword is Drogon. The dragons are often compared to swords in the text, the most popular one probably being the quote from Xaro.  I suspect that's why on the show, the dragon's flame shot out like a sword.

I think that she comes to Westeros. She's too important a character not to be in the final thick of things and George  has been building up her return to the land of her birth since the beginning of the books. 

We’ll have to agree to disagree about Daenerys. Just as Azor Ahai is an Essos hero, I believe Daenerys will stay in Essos. If she comes to Westeros it would “restart” the migration cycle which I believe goes against what the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven set out to do. They foretold the demise of various groups and species and asserted that the direwolves would outlast them all which suggests the return to Spring and Summer will end with the Starks, not another Targaryen.

I appreciate your words in your earlier post. You need to keep in mind that this forum has been around many years and a number of members have been dissecting the text and discussing it for many years also. If anyone is familiar with the author and how he writes it’s the people here.