Nathan Stark Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 A thought came to me last night that I just needed to get out, so my apologies if this has been discussed before. But Gendel's children, the ones Ygritte tells Jon about, are totally wieghts now. That's what happened to the wildling army of old as they fled under the tunnels beneath the wall: they died and rose again. I fully expect Gendel's children to find their way back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_upton Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 What makes you think that they are wights now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Hm... Why do you think they became wights? I think if the writer wants to include wights, there are still plenty of the contemporary people beyond the Wall. I don't know if an ancient legend is needed for that. But I agree that the tunnels themselves are significant. Someone or something may well find the way through them, and that could be the reason why we are told that story of old. If it is wights that come through the tunnels, it is unlikely that we will know if they are Gendel's children or some more recent wildlings though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 You may be right, but I don't take the connection between Gendel's children and wights to be literal - I think it may be more literary or figurative. My own thinking is that, as two brothers who operate together as King Beyond the Wall, Gendel and Gorne are symbolic of the Targaryen and Blackfyre lines that seemed to represent two types of strengths under Aegon IV but became separated and clashed under subsequent Targ rulers. We see wildlings operate in caverns and tunnels - Ygritte leads Jon into a tunnel that branches off from Mance's feast hall, for instance. In that tunnel, Jon and Ygritte are naked for the first time in their lovemaking. I think this symbolizes the genuine joining of Jon and Ygritte - descendants of two branches of Stark / wildling northmen but, at the same time, two Targ branches (Jon the likely son of Rhaegar and Ygritte kissed by fire). Jon slept in a tower at Winterfell and as Mormont's steward. After his undercover interlude with the wildlings, he sleeps in Donal Noye's blacksmith quarters - the two extremes of tower and tunnel have been melded to put Jon at ground level. Similarly, we see Blackfyre and dragonseed descendants come up from underground. Rennifer Longwaters and Rugen (who is Varys in disguise) have been in the dungeon at the Red Keep, much like the dragon skulls that Robert Baratheon put into storage in the lower levels of the building. We know that Longwaters is a descendant of Elaena Targaryen so we might include other Elaena descendants (members of House Penrose, Plumm and Waters / Longwaters) in the likely "underground" Targaryen descendants that are parallel to Gendel's children. Elaena herself was trapped in a vault for a number of years. The Blackfyre line similarly created a possible (in my mind, likely) line of Targaryen descendants who have operated underground for generations. GRRM wrote a short story in which a hero defends his underground world against intruders after an apocalyptic disaster split a human population into people who dwell above ground and people who live in underground structures. Their source was shared but they subsequently evolved separately. There is a monster element in the split, so you may be right about the symbolism of wights and humans coming from the same initial source but evolving separately. But I think it's part of a larger set of parallels that take these different forms (Stark, Targaryen, human/wight, Gendel/Gorne) in ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 To me greatest problem is that Gendel and Gorne lived thousands of years ago and so any wights of that era should have turned to dust long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: To me greatest problem is that Gendel and Gorne lived thousands of years ago and so any wights of that era should have turned to dust long time ago. Yep It's just part of the wildling legend. World building, Nathan. That's all. But I'm open to more convincing arguments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted January 9, 2021 Share Posted January 9, 2021 More likely legend than anything else, but I do think it points to an extensive cave network and a route for Bran to return. It could also be a refference to Martin's short strory "In the House of the Worm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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