Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said: Daario and Drogo make for interesting lover choices. Hey look on the bright side, by now she deffo doesn't have to worry about getting STD's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TedBear Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: As @Nathan Starksaid earlier, Jon is just trying to save the world from Apocalypse, Armageddon. Heh, daily routine boring stuff. Meanwhile Dany has a very important task. To Satisfy her desires with handsome rapist pillagers. Emphasis on Handsome. To seat her pretty ass on the Iron Throne which rightfully belongs to her. Valyrian pure blood. Racist rabid sheep worshippers ignored. What saves the world from apocalypse is the wall, all Jon needs to do is stay on the right side of it, he’s not playing a game of thrones, the group of people he has to deal with and command is small, the effect of his actions could have on the Others is small, gathering information about the enemy is the most he could do with what he has and trying to alert the rest of the kingdom, Jon is dealing with men not with Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: I always use pretty ass to describe her IT aspirations. No other FOCUS on looks. About sexuality... LOL. Daario and Drogo make for interesting lover choices. Drogo wasn't a choice tho. And again dude, you're starting problem when no one said anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 22 minutes ago, TedBear said: What saves the world from apocalypse is the wall, all Jon needs to do is stay on the right side of it, he’s not playing a game of thrones, the group of people he has to deal with and command is small, the effect of his actions could have on the Others is small, gathering information about the enemy is the most he could do with what he has and trying to alert the rest of the kingdom, Jon is dealing with men not with Others. Are you sure the Wall is what's saving the world and not what's threatening it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: Are you sure the Wall is what's saving the world and not what's threatening it? Also isn't it super hinted that the magic of the Wall is dependent on the Nights Watch itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, TedBear said: What saves the world from apocalypse is the wall, all Jon needs to do is stay on the right side of it, he’s not playing a game of thrones, the group of people he has to deal with and command is small, the effect of his actions could have on the Others is small, gathering information about the enemy is the most he could do with what he has and trying to alert the rest of the kingdom, Jon is dealing with men not with Others. THE WALL IS ONLY AS STRONG AS THE MEN GUARDING IT He mentioned it @Alyn Oakenfist 1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Also isn't it super hinted that the magic of the Wall is dependent on the Nights Watch itself? Yep 1 hour ago, CamiloRP said: Drogo wasn't a choice tho. She didn't chose to marry him, but chose to love him later on. A rapist, pillager, Conqueror mass murdering genocidal leader of toxic patriarchal macho chauvinistic society. He may have been a product of it, doesn't change his status 1 hour ago, CamiloRP said: And again dude, you're starting problem when no one said anything Take a second look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 15 hours ago, TedBear said: The situations are very different from one another to make a comparison between they two, IMO It's as if Dany is trying ns they are leading are very very different.to lead a multinational and Jon runs the corner store, we have a more complex and difficult situation in Meereen. Yep. While you can certainly debate their leadership styles, the situations they are trying to lead are very very different and not really comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: THE WALL IS ONLY AS STRONG AS THE MEN GUARDING IT He mentioned it @Alyn Oakenfist Yep She didn't chose to marry him, but chose to love him later on. A rapist, pillager, Conqueror mass murdering genocidal leader of toxic patriarchal macho chauvinistic society. He may have been a product of it, doesn't change his status Take a second look You can’t choose who you love. Drogo was a manly man, who was kind to Daenerys. Joanna was a good woman who loved Tywin, after all, a man whose behaviour was at least as brutal as Drogo’s. Daario? Well, I do think our girl could have done a lot better for herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 It's the kind of story where characters are lucky if they find one person where the age gap isn't too weird and it's consensual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 27 minutes ago, SeanF said: Drogo was a manly man, who was kind to Daenerys. Raping her every night after they married is not what I would call kind. That being said it is true that Drogo gave her something truly precious. Power and power to have a personality and a will, and the power to have agency, all things she sorely lacked before, and that turn her into who we see from ACOK forward. That being said he still raped her a lot, and was in general an awful piece of shit. 31 minutes ago, SeanF said: Daario? Well, I do think our girl could have done a lot better for herself. I literally struggle to think how she could have done worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Just now, Rose of Red Lake said: It's the kind of story where characters are lucky if they find one person where the age gap isn't too weird and it's consensual. Ehhh, Cersei and Jaime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 1/2/2021 at 12:29 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said: So as I outlined previously Jon and Dany are mirroring each other through ADWD, and by the end they're both pretty much fucked. Still, the question stands, which one is the better ruler, at least in ADWD. I would say Jon, for the following reasons: - Food and Economy. So after military and political control, which we are going to touch very soon, the most important part of ruling a medieval realm is securing food and money. And in that regard it's pretty clear who is the better ruler. Now tbf, Dany does have the massive problem of being stuck with a blockaded, burned out landscape, but, she constantly refuses many of the actions that could help out, from trying to burn the ships, to seizing Xaro's, to sallying out to take Yunkai. She also spends very little time actually thinking about that, unlike Jon for whom food and money are one of the biggest concern, second only to evacuating the wildlings. Jon, must be said is no better then Dany from the get go, maybe even a bit worse, yet by the end he has secured the Watch, at least for the Winter. True the debt might be an issue come Spring, but at least they'll be alive by then, something that isn't certain for Meereen. - Use of diplomacy. So Dany is kinda bad at diplomacy. Her idea of a peace deal in which the enemy cannot really harm her, is to gives up a lot of her power, and allow her enemies to both, regain their privileges and get even more power. She also has no guarantee her enemies will actually honor the peace. Jon on the other hand actually does a pretty good peace deal with Tormund. He is able to turn the wildlings to his side, making sure they will comply with him, out of both self interest, and with hostages. He also secures money out of the peace deal, something that never even crosses Dany's mind. And remember Dany is the one dealing with the mega rich traders as opposed to the savages. - Dany refusing to do anything with the hostages. Yes it's fucked up, but between not taking hostages, or taking hostages and executing them, she choose the worst option imaginable, taking hostages but doing nothing. That projects weakness. A lot. It would have been ten times better if she never took the hostages at all. Yes, what she does is the hallmark of a good person, but not that of a good leader. The two are different. - Jon didn't mindlessly kill out of vengeance. So I can already hear the name Janos Slynt on your lips, and yes I do agree that no doubt Jon was itching to kill the bastard, but really consider the two situations side by side. Dany killed 163 masters out of hand when she came into power, no trial, no reason, no guilt, no nothing. Jon on the other hand, only killed Janos when the man was in open subordination. Not only that but he gave the man plenty of chances, only killing him when he insulted him in public and refused his orders. At that point not killing him would make Jon look very weak. - Jon doesn't scoff at compromise. He actually realizes that compromise is inevitable. When thinking of his deal with Tycho he thinks "by the end both were unhappy. He though of it as a good sign". Dany on the other hand has an active revulsion to compromise. Now there is however one major thing Dany does waaaay better then Jon. Actually deal with her subordinates. She knows how to inspire loyalty and explain herself. Jon may take advice in to consideration and may be right, but he is terrible at showing it, and even more terrible at bloody communicating with his underlings. Still I don't think that's enough to tip the scales. But how about you? What do you think? Jon doesn't have the experience for ruling. Dany has. Meereen is comparable in size to King's Landing. The watch consists of a tiny fraction of that. Jon's resume is limited. He was the commander of a garrison. Dany is the queen of Meereen and a khaleesi of the Dothraki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Ehhh, Cersei and Jaime? A 5 min age gap and I'm pretty sure it's consensual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: A 5 min age gap and I'm pretty sure it's consensual Definitely the healthiest relationship in ASOIAF then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Raping her every night after they married is not what I would call kind. That being said it is true that Drogo gave her something truly precious. Power and power to have a personality and a will, and the power to have agency, all things she sorely lacked before, and that turn her into who we see from ACOK forward. That being said he still raped her a lot, and was in general an awful piece of shit. I literally struggle to think how she could have done worse Martin thinks Drogo/Dany is a true romance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Just now, SeanF said: Martin thinks Drogo/Dany is a true romance. Did I say before the Martin has quite a few loose hinges? I can think of no better example than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Did I say before the Martin has quite a few loose hinges? I can think of no better example than this Oh, but think how many romance novels involve pretty dubious consent. Or, take Cirri and Mistle in The Witcher. Sexual assault or genuine love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Definitely the healthiest relationship in ASOIAF then, right? That seems to be the bar for healthy relationships, at least in terms of living characters in the ASOIAF books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Just now, SeanF said: Oh, but think how many romance novels involve pretty dubious consent. Oh, but think how many romance novels are completely fucked up. Seriously though, there is no better eternal romance breaker then one party forcing itself on another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: 8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Definitely the healthiest relationship in ASOIAF then, right? That seems to be the bar for healthy relationships, at least in terms of living characters in the ASOIAF books. I mean Ned and Cat are somewhat healthy, as are Robb and Jeyne, Asha and Qarl, Renly and Loras and few more that I can't recall right now probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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