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Why Daenerys is a better ruler and leader than Jon


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3 hours ago, Ewan McGregor said:

Dany faced far more numerous problems.  The difference was that she faced them with her intelligence and strength.  She left Meereen in good hands, far better than she found it.  Jon on the other hand destroyed the Watch through his treachery and his abandonment of his duty.  Even with Bowen's intervention in putting him down the Watch might still fall due to his actions.

I. A. M.      R. E. S. T. R. A. I. N. I. N. G

3 hours ago, Ewan McGregor said:

Janos was not in open mutiny.  He accepted the illegitimate results of the elections, which is more than can be asked of him.  He should have been the Lord Commander, had he not been sabotaged

... Myself. Fck it 

3 hours ago, Ewan McGregor said:

There was no other way.  Robb was going to kill them all in his idiotic ambitious quest.  Roose did what needed to be done with him.  By guile if necesary

Triple post of :bs:

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On 1/5/2021 at 5:31 PM, Khal Rhaego Targaryen said:

Dany is the only character in ASOIAF who is really learning to rule through her mistakes and failures. Jon Arryn, Robert, Ned, Tywin, Rob and Jon snow are all dead for their own personal interests and not for the interests of the people who ruled/led! Cersei and Stannis are too busy digging their own graves! Its so funny that people say Dany is good at conquering but terrible at governing when her whole arc in ADWD is just the opposite. Her conqueror side brought more negative than positive results and that is why she chose to stay in Meereen and be a queen = ruler. She speaks several languages, the loyalty of her armies is not bought with gold, she knows how to deal with mercenaries and much worse people, she is charismatic, intelligent, fair, she cares about the needs of her people, she knows when to be relentless, she has sense of duty, she doesn't follow any religion but respects all of them, is skeptical of legends, myths and prophecies and has survived poisonings, assassination attempts, sieges, conspiracies and deadly diseases. Anyway, she is better than anyone in ASOIAF and I believe that Martin is preparing her to rule in the end.

:agree:

 

I don't see a path where he will get another chance to rule again.  I mean, if Jon can't even lead a small number of men as the watch was, he's not going to be king of a kingdom. 

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Folks, there has been a proliferation of rudeness and accusations of trolling or using alts. These are not things that should be happening in discussions. 

If you believe someone is breaking the rules, report them rather than engaging or making accusations. We can and will investigate and deal with these things.

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5 hours ago, Ran said:

Folks, there has been a proliferation of rudeness and accusations of trolling or using alts. These are not things that should be happening in discussions. 

If you believe someone is breaking the rules, report them rather than engaging or making accusations. We can and will investigate and deal with these things.

Honest question, is using alts considered breaking the rules?

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3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Honest question, is using alts considered breaking the rules?

Yes. 

I mean, if you leave the forum and come back and decide you want to start fresh, that's one thing.

But if you run multiple accounts to do things like back up your own arguments or stage fake arguments or just to troll people, that will get you banned.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

Yes. 

I mean, if you leave the forum and come back and decide you want to start fresh, that's one thing.

But if you run multiple accounts to do things like back up your own arguments or stage fake arguments or just to troll people, that will get you banned.

Kay, thanks. Didn't know, next time I'll be reportin'.

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18 hours ago, Ran said:

Folks, there has been a proliferation of rudeness and accusations of trolling or using alts. These are not things that should be happening in discussions. 

If you believe someone is breaking the rules, report them rather than engaging or making accusations. We can and will investigate and deal with these things.

Would harassing behavior and attempts to intimidate be considered breaking the rules?  I see a lot of those lately.  How do we report such behavior?  Is there a direct email to the site administrator?  Thanks

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/13/2021 at 9:24 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I cannot remember who those people are. He may be crowned by his mother with no formal recognition, that is why he had no Kingsguard when Jon had 3.

I don't think it was Jon who was born at the tower of joy.  Even if he was, those men were more than likely there to kill him. 

There are four possible fathers for Jon Snow:  Ned, Rhaegar, Brandon, and Mance. 

On 1/13/2021 at 9:24 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

 

As per Targaryen custom Dany cannot be an heir even if Viserys was the king, which he was not.

Custom is not important to Daenerys Targryen.  She would not be fighting against slavery if they mattered.  She would have gone to Vaes Dothrak if she cared about customs.  She chooses her own way.  She is Azor Ahai.  She has that right.

On 1/13/2021 at 9:24 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

The Starks are the oldest of the Great Houses and they were rulers of their domains for almost 10000 years.

The Starks were rulers of one of worst regions on the continent.  A land very few would want.  How they ended up there was because the Andals were stronger.  It is not at all flattering to dominate a land like the north. 

On 1/13/2021 at 9:24 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

Thus far no one except maybe the now extinct house Darry has proved to be loyal to the Tragaryen, unlike the people who endanger themselves to support the Targaryen.

The Starks bent their knees to the Targaryens.  Not the other way around.  A Targaryen has never knelt to a Stark.  The Targaryens are greater than the Starks.

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5 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I don't think it was Jon who was born at the tower of joy. 

Then who was it?

5 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Even if he was, those men were more than likely there to kill him.

Why?

6 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

There are four possible fathers for Jon Snow:  Ned, Rhaegar, Brandon

True. I mean, it's Rheagar of course, but you could make arguments for Ned and you could imply Brandon as Jon's father, if you squint, tilt your head and slam your forehead 50 times.

9 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

and Mance.

???

9 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Custom is not important to Daenerys Targryen.  She would not be fighting against slavery if they mattered.  She would have gone to Vaes Dothrak if she cared about customs.

Why does she adopt Dothraki, Quartheen and Meereenese custums, if she doesn't care about customs? She wants to end slavery, not end harmless customs like wearing silly dresses.

12 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

She chooses her own way.

True.

13 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

She is Azor Ahai.

Prove it.

16 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks were rulers of one of worst regions on the continent.  A land very few would want.  How they ended up there was because the Andals were stronger.  It is not at all flattering to dominate a land like the north. 

"The Targaryens were rulers of one of the worst islands in Westeros. An island very few would want. How they ended up there was because the Valyrians blew up their own homeland. It is not at all flattering to dominate a land like Dragonstone." 

See? We can make silly, dumb, bad faith arguments about the Targaryens too.

21 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks bent their knees to the Targaryens. 

True.

22 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

A Targaryen has never knelt to a Stark.

There's always a first time.

23 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Targaryens are greater than the Starks.

That's like, your opinion, man.

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1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

There are four possible fathers for Jon Snow:  Ned, Rhaegar, Brandon, and Mance. 

 

There is only one possible father for Jon Rhaegar. All the others are chronologically off especially Brandon who was dead one year before Jon's birth. In addition to that Brandon and Ned were Lyanna's brothers and not all families are into sister brother copulation. Some, normal, families view it as an abominiation. 

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

  Even if he was, those men were more than likely there to kill him. 

What are you talking about?

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

She would not be fighting against slavery if they mattered. 

She doesn't, she started like that but ended using slavery when she wanted.

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

She is Azor Ahai. 

Prove it.

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks were rulers of one of worst regions on the continent.  A land very few would want.  How they ended up there was because the Andals were stronger.  It is not at all flattering to dominate a land like the north. 

Quote

 

The Starks ruled the North way before the Andals arrive in Westeros, way before Valyrians were something more that sheep shepherds. They chose that region they were not sent there.  

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks bent their knees to the Targaryens.  Not the other way around.  A Targaryen has never knelt to a Stark.  The Targaryens are greater than the Starks.

They bent the knee to save their people because the Targaryens were bloodthirsty. They had chosen their people's lives over their vanity and that is why their people love them and fight to get them back. What do the Targaryen people did when the Targaryen lost? Nothing. They didn't cared. That is why the Starks are greater than the Targaryens.

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41 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:
 

There is only one possible father for Jon Rhaegar. All the others are chronologically off especially Brandon who was dead one year before Jon's birth. In addition to that Brandon and Ned were Lyanna's brothers and not all families are into sister brother copulation. Some, normal, families view it as an abominiation. 

What are you talking about?

She doesn't, she started like that but ended using slavery when she wanted.

Prove it.

 

The Starks ruled the North way before the Andals arrive in Westeros, way before Valyrians were something more that sheep shepherds. They chose that region they were not sent there.  

They bent the knee to save their people because the Targaryens were bloodthirsty. They had chosen their people's lives over their vanity and that is why their people love them and fight to get them back. What do the Targaryen people did when the Targaryen lost? Nothing. They didn't cared. That is why the Starks are greater than the Targaryens.

People bent the knee (ostensibly) to Robert Baratheon because the alternative was being killed.  He feared that if Viserys rolled up with an army, lots of his lords would defect to him.

As the story unfolds, we come across people plotting against him to reinstate the Targaryens.  The foundations of Robert’s government have as many holes as a Swiss cheese.

In any case, this is not Harry Potter, with the Starks being Griffindor, and the Targaryens Slytherin.  Both houses have their share of good and bad people.

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

In any case, this is not Harry Potter, with the Starks being Griffindor, and the Targaryens Slytherin.  Both houses have their share of good and bad people.

I don't disagree. Even if I don't remember as many bad Starks as bad Targaryens.

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

People bent the knee (ostensibly) to Robert Baratheon because the alternative was being killed.  He feared that if Viserys rolled up with an army, lots of his lords would defect to him.

As the story unfolds, we come across people plotting against him to reinstate the Targaryens.  The foundations of Robert’s government have as many holes as a Swiss cheese.

We see the Martells plotting only after they will have something to gain.  That being said, I am talking about the Starks not Robert.

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20 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I don't disagree. Even if I don't remember as many bad Starks as bad Targaryens.

We see the Martells plotting only after they will have something to gain.  That being said, I am talking about the Starks not Robert.

What I’m getting at is that the failure to stage an uprising in favour of a deposed House is not really an indicator of unpopularity.  People need to weigh up the risks of doing so.  The Boltons’ hold on the North is much weaker than Robert’s position seemed, after the sack of Kings Landing, and the near-destruction of the royal family.  The Boltons still have a powerful and respected enemy in the field, namely Stannis.

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21 minutes ago, SeanF said:

What I’m getting at is that the failure to stage an uprising in favour of a deposed House is not really an indicator of unpopularity.  People need to weigh up the risks of doing so.  The Boltons’ hold on the North is much weaker than Robert’s position seemed, after the sack of Kings Landing.  The Boltons still have a powerful and respected enemy in the field, namely Stannis.

Remember that House Stark is not deposed.

House Bolton/Roose Bolton was named Warden of the North and Lord Paramount, ruling from the Dreadfort. If he'll ever have another trueborn son, the would be the next Lord of the Dreadfort, Warden of the North, and Lord Paramount, while Ramsay would inherit nothing.

However, Ramsay is married to "Arya Stark", the heir to Winterfell, or more likelier the Lady of Winterfell, partilinearry. That means that there would be House Bolton of Winterfell and House Bolton of the Dreadfort too, if Roose ever gets another heir. If not, Ramsay inherits the Dreadfort and the titles too (LP, WotN)

That means, that the two lands (Winterfell and what belongs to it, and the same with the Dreadfort) would be divided between his heirs. The firstborn likely getting Winterfell and the titles, and the second one likely getting the Dreadfort.

I mean, this would happen, if everything goes as they plan, but this won't work out, thank God. Mostly because Sansa, Rickon, and Bran have stronger claims, and 'Arya' is fake too. 

What I see happening is Rickon getting Winterfell with the help of Wyman Manderly, and getting married to a Manderly girl, or something.

Anyway, what I'm tryna say with all this is that House Stark is not deposed as Lords of Winterfell, they are acknowledged rulers of Winterfell, that's why they married 'Arya' to Ramsay, and that's why the Stark boys have an acknowledged claim (and stronger than 'Arya's') even by the current Lord of the Seven Kingdoms too.

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32 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said:

I don't disagree. Even if I don't remember as many bad Starks as bad Targaryens.

Well, that means that you don't really know history.

And we also don't know as much Starks as much Targaryens we do. I mean by personality.

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:32 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Sure but Dany is still better at ruling. 

It's kind of like arguing which toddler is a better marathon runner. There's going to be stumbling, crying and messes and everyone getting involved in this is just going to look silly. 

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