Ewan McGregor Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: She's very protective of the people who adore her, but that's not quite the same as having a firm ideological opposition to slavery and a commitment to abolition. I think she just has a commitment to winning against "enemies," whoever they are (can change). She is very protective of all people. Her actions throughout the books are clearly about ending slavery and not only that, but feudalism too. She will be what Westeros needs against whoever comes on top between the Lannisters and Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ewan McGregor said: She is very protective of all people. Her actions throughout the books are clearly about ending slavery and not only that, but feudalism too. She will be what Westeros needs against whoever comes on top between the Lannisters and Starks. Why didn't she affirm her commitment to being anti-slavery and anti-feudalism (??) in the final Dance chapter. If she cared, she would mention this in her thoughts. But she doesn't. Not once. Her thoughts are consumed by Drogon, why she's not in Westeros, guilt about locking up dragons, eagerness to leave Meereen, dragons not planting trees, and more of the same "remember who you are" mumbo jumbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewan McGregor Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Her thoughts are consumed by Drogon, why she's not in Westeros, Drogon and departing for Westeros are both manifestation of her duty to do what she must. Drogo is both a tool and a reminder of what her purpose is. 2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Why didn't she affirm her commitment to being anti-slavery and anti-federalism in the final Dance chapter She does very often. It's who she is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I don't think we can close the book on Dany's skill as a leader until we see the manner in which she leaves Slaver's Bay and the state of the place when she leaves it. So far she's accomplished little in Mereen other than occupying the city and then being manipulated by its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ewan McGregor said: Drogon and departing for Westeros are both manifestation of her duty to do what she must. Drogo is both a tool and a reminder of what her purpose is. Horseshit. Duty is staying in Meereen, sitting her ass down, and ruling after she conquers it. She broke it, she bought it. 4 minutes ago, Ewan McGregor said: She does very often. It's who she is It might be good to include quotes from last chapter, where we are 100% in her head for many, many pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewan McGregor Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Horseshit. Duty is staying in Meereen, sitting her ass down, and ruling after she conquers it. She broke it, she bought it. Her duty is with her people and the righful throne of her ancestors. Meereen was just the setting ground to her becomign a great ruler, expanding her already great intelligence and skills. Her duty however lies in Westeros, both as the rightful Queen and as Azor Ahai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, Ewan McGregor said: She is very protective of all people. Her actions throughout the books are clearly about ending slavery and not only that, but feudalism too. She will be what Westeros needs against whoever comes on top between the Lannisters and Starks. She is protective of her followers. She is not above killing or torturing innocents. 32 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: In addition to that, she told Xaro to go buy slaves from the Dothraki and buy the people working in the fields (without pay??). She's very protective of the people who adore her, but that's not quite the same as having a firm ideological opposition to slavery and a commitment to abolition. I think she just has a commitment to winning against "enemies," whoever they are (can change). I agree. Her actions so far are mostly focused on the people who follow her not the common people and this is apparent from many of her decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ewan McGregor said: Her duty is with her people and the righful throne of her ancestors. Meereen was just the setting ground to her becomign a great ruler, expanding her already great intelligence and skills. Her duty however lies in Westeros, both as the rightful Queen and as Azor Ahai Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that she is Azor Ahai and she has God's mandate to Westeros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, Jay21 said: I don't think we can close the book on Dany's skill as a leader until we see the manner in which she leaves Slaver's Bay and the state of the place when she leaves it. So far she's accomplished little in Mereen other than occupying the city and then being manipulated by its citizens. There is a chance for freedom for the first time in that part of the world. At least 250K slaves were liberated from their masters. Dany's skills as a leader are already proven. She successfully took a khalasar of old men, women, and children to safety. She rescued more than eight thousand eunuch soldiers from their masters. Jon's inadequacy, on the other hand, has been proven. His short time as the leader of the watch ended in failure. The very damaging consequences of Jon's actions while in command will be seen in the Winds of Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 29 minutes ago, Jay21 said: I don't think we can close the book on Dany's skill as a leader until we see the manner in which she leaves Slaver's Bay and the state of the place when she leaves it. So far she's accomplished little in Mereen other than occupying the city and then being manipulated by its citizens. Also what happens, after she leaves... Here's a preview that I copied from GRRM's 8" floppy disks: Quote Repulsive Shrimp entered the war room on Dragonstone. "My Queen, we have word from your colonies" he said, bowing low like the shrimp he was. "It appears that Khal Banjo has razed the cities you entrusted to a Council of Useless People. The survivors who weren't slaughtered or burned alive by your dragons in the Battle of Meereen, are now enslaved." If I look back I am lost, thought Daenerys. "Westeros has need of my skills!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 @Lilac & Gooseberries You didn't ask my opinion but I wrote a thorough essay on the subject of Azor Ahai. Dany is Azor Ahai. I don't know about "god's mandate" but she is the heir to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: @Lilac & Gooseberries You didn't ask my opinion but I wrote a thorough essay on the subject of Azor Ahai. Dany is Azor Ahai. I respect your opinion bbut from what I have read so far Jon is more likely to me to be Azor Ahai when Dany is the Stallion who mounts the world. 2 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: @Lilac & Gooseberries I don't know about "god's mandate" but she is the heir to Westeros. As per the Targaryen tradition she is not, while Jon is. In her own words when you leave your house, you leave any right you have behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I respect your opinion bbut from what I have read so far Jon is more likely to me to be Azor Ahai when Dany is the Stallion who mounts the world. That's alright with me. I think Dany is Azor Ahai. You think Jon is Azor Ahai. We will just agree to disagree. Quote As per the Targaryen tradition she is not, while Jon is. In her own words when you leave your house, you leave any right you have behind. I suppose that applies to the Starks because they lost Winterfell. They lost any right they had to Winterfell. Jon is most probably the son of Mance Rayder with Lyanna Stark. He has no rights to the throne of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 57 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: I suppose that applies to the Starks because they lost Winterfell. They lost any right they had to Winterfell. I somewhat agree, they will need to take it back. However Winterfell is their home for thousands of years, there are people who actively fight for them albeit from the shadows and there is a big possibility that their blood is connected with the Wall and Winterfell. While the Targaryens were in Westeros for less than 400 years, lost most of their power when their dragons died, they have next to no supporters in Westeros and they are overall more connected with Essos than Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Fenimore Cooper XXII Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I somewhat agree, they will need to take it back. However Winterfell is their home for thousands of years, there are people who actively fight for them albeit from the shadows and there is a big possibility that their blood is connected with the Wall and Winterfell. While the Targaryens were in Westeros for less than 300 years, lost most of their power when their dragns died, they have next to no supporters in Westeros and they are overall more cosnnected with Essos than Westeros. There are people who have never stopped working in the background to restore the Targaryens. King Viserys III was crowned on Dragonstone, which is Westeros. He was king in every legal way. His heir, Princess Daenerys, was his heir. Robert's conquest was not complete because the heir to the throne managed to avoid him. The Starks, at their highest achievement, were just the "kings" of the least-desirable lands in Westeros. They are one of the poorer of the Great Houses. They are not the equal of the Targaryens in achievement. The Starks have claims to the North and Winterfell, and so do the Targaryens because those places are part of Westeros. The Targaryen claim to Westeros continues to this day. Yes, ofcourse any Targaryen claimant will have to take back the control from the Lannisters by force. But that is the nature of claims. It's only as good as one's ability to make good on that claim. The Boltons will have to be evicted by force too. Claim alone is not enough to win but it is the basis for what the public will see as "rightful." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: There are people who have never stopped working in the background to restore the Targaryens. King Viserys III was crowned on Dragonstone, which is Westeros. He was king in every legal way. I cannot remember who those people are. He may be crowned by his mother with no formal recognition, that is why he had no Kingsguard when Jon had 3. Quote “Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him.” “Ser Willem is a good man and true,” said Ser Oswell. “But not of the Kingsguard,” Ser Gerold pointed out. “The Kingsguard does not flee.” “Then or now,” said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm. “We swore a vow,” explained old Ser Gerold. 2 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: His heir, Princess Daenerys, was his heir. As per Targaryen custom Dany cannot be an heir even if Viserys was the king, which he was not. 3 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: The Starks, at their highest achievement, were just the "kings" of the least-desirable lands in Westeros. They are one of the poorer of the Great Houses. The Starks are the oldest of the Great Houses and they were rulers of their domains for almost 10000 years. 21 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said: Claim alone is not enough to win but it is the basis for what the public will see as "rightful." Thus far no one except maybe the now extinct house Darry has proved to be loyal to the Tragaryen, unlike the people who endanger themselves to support the Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Ewan McGregor said: Her actions throughout the books are clearly about ending slavery and not only that, but feudalism too Intentions not actions. And the road to seven hells is paved by good intentions. Quoting some forum member who posted this recently. And feudalism!? How the hell can she be a monarch and seat her pretty arse on the IT if she's against feudalism? Pfft, stop joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I cannot remember who those people are. He may be crowned by his mother with no formal recognition, that is why he had no Kingsguard when Jon had 3. As per Targaryen custom Dany cannot be an heir even if Viserys was the king, which he was not. The Starks are the oldest of the Great Houses and they were rulers of their domains for almost 10000 years. Thus far no one except maybe the now extinct house Darry has proved to be loyal to the Tragaryen, unlike the people who endanger themselves to support the Targaryen. This is not true at all. And Viserys was indeed crowned on Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, El Guapo said: This is not true at all. And Viserys was indeed crowned on Dragonstone. Might not be true but we haven't seen a Targaryen heiress and Viserys was crowned by his mother who was merely the wife of the King with no power and no support from the people or the Faith, similar to how Essie declared Gaemon the King and at least Gaemon had some followers. In Viserys' case he had only Willem Darry and not even one of the Kingsguards, they seemed to have someone more important to guard than the King's second son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Might not be true but we haven't seen a Targaryen heiress and Viserys was crowned by his mother who was merely the wife of the King with no power and no support from the people or the Faith, similar to how Essie declared Gaemon the King and at least Gaemon had some followers. In Viserys' case he had only Willem Darry and not even one of the Kingsguards, they seemed to have someone more important to guard than the King's second son. upon Rhaegar's death The KIng's second son was named his heir after Rhaegar's death. Whether or not the 3 Kingsguard at the TOJ knew that is not known. Not to mention the fact that those kingsguard don't get to decide who is king anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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