Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 So one of Jaime's biggest regrets is the deaths of Elia, Rhaenys and presumably Aegon in the Sack, best showed in his fever dream in ASOS. So the question is, how will he react when Aegon's claimed identity is revealed to him. Keep in mind that by the end of AFFC he has basically said fuck it to any relationship with Cersei. During AFFC he tells himself "I need to get this done to get back to Cersei", but by the end when Cersei only calls him back when she needs him, he finally says fuck it, and continues his campaign towards Raventree Hall. So given all of that, will he stay by Cersei's side or will he go to Aegon trying to gain catharsis for everything that happened with Aerys? (it would also be a nice set up for Jon Conn blowing up KL, as Jaime would need to explain himself and thus reveal the wildfire) Also, it's worth pointing out that Barristan will have pretty much the same dilemma, though in his case it's far more likely he will defect to Aegon. So what do you think Jaime will do? Presuming he survives Stoneheart that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 13 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: So what do you think Jaime will do? Marry Brienne, have lots of kids, settle down in a cottage, farm fish eat sleep shit fuck repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: Marry Brienne, have lots of kids, settle down in a cottage, farm fish eat sleep shit fuck repeat Very funny. Also I can't really see him marry Brienne, what with the Kingsguard vows and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Jaime is a Lannister all the way. Guilt for his failure in the past is not going to make him jump into Aegon's arms. He wouldn't be welcome even if he did. Aegon's backers and allies have no love for the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Biggest regrets? I think he feels some guilt but as far as I remember from his retrospections of moments after killing Aerys - the children were Aerys' blood and so he did not want to see any of them on the IT. Maybe even he did not want to see them alive. With his knowledge on "Arya" he probably wont believe this is Aegon. Moreover, after meeting LSH all his worries may end or his life may go in some strange and unexpected direction and many things will become unimportant / out of date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Give him the same treatment he gave Aerys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweaty_P Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1v1 with jon con who he kills in single combat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Very funny. Also I can't really see him marry Brienne, what with the Kingsguard vows and all that. Thank you for the first emboldened part Second... You talking Kingsguard vows with a man called the KINGSlayer!? Oath breaker!? And besides... Quote So many vows...they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or the other. And another besides, love is crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 hours ago, TheLastWolf said: Thank you for the first emboldened part Second... You talking Kingsguard vows with a man called the KINGSlayer!? Oath breaker!? And besides... And another besides, love is crazy It doesn't matter if he wants to break the vows. The marriage would be considered fake by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: It doesn't matter if he wants to break the vows. The marriage would be considered fake by everyone. Not only that, Jaime, or at least the part of Jaime that is still good and is becoming ever more prominent, does take his vows quite seriously, he only breaks them in the most dire circumstances, when frankly breaking them was the best option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 57 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: It doesn't matter if he wants to break the vows. The marriage would be considered fake by everyone. Jaime doesn't strike me as someone who gives a damn about what others think of his actions. He did long ago. Now he's seeking redemption for his own conscience. And with all the queens and kings being claimants, i think one victor might pardon him for reasons (speculative, calculated guess/prediction) I'll divulge soon. 51 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Not only that, Jaime, or at least the part of Jaime that is still good and is becoming ever more prominent, does take his vows quite seriously, he only breaks them in the most dire circumstances, when frankly breaking them was the best option Own conscience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said: Jaime doesn't strike me as someone who gives a damn about what others think of his actions. He did long ago. Now he's seeking redemption for his own conscience. Then what's the purpose for a marriage? If it's considered fake by everyone, why not just be with Brianne, just not married. And Jaime doesn't want to be dismissed from the Kingsguard, he wants to stay and do thinks worthy of the white book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, CamiloRP said: And Jaime doesn't want to be dismissed from the Kingsguard, he wants to stay and do thinks worthy of the white book His conscience comes first. His nightmares and visions say as much. If someone relieves him of the white cloak AFTER he has assuaged his conscience and done a dozen white book worthy deeds, he'd gladly accept it 1 minute ago, CamiloRP said: Then what's the purpose for a marriage? If it's considered fake by everyone, why not just be with Brianne, just not married. Sure. Live in relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 8:58 AM, Alyn Oakenfist said: So one of Jaime's biggest regrets is the deaths of Elia, Rhaenys and presumably Aegon in the Sack, best showed in his fever dream in ASOS. So the question is, how will he react when Aegon's claimed identity is revealed to him. Keep in mind that by the end of AFFC he has basically said fuck it to any relationship with Cersei. During AFFC he tells himself "I need to get this done to get back to Cersei", but by the end when Cersei only calls him back when she needs him, he finally says fuck it, and continues his campaign towards Raventree Hall. So given all of that, will he stay by Cersei's side or will he go to Aegon trying to gain catharsis for everything that happened with Aerys? (it would also be a nice set up for Jon Conn blowing up KL, as Jaime would need to explain himself and thus reveal the wildfire) Also, it's worth pointing out that Barristan will have pretty much the same dilemma, though in his case it's far more likely he will defect to Aegon. So what do you think Jaime will do? Presuming he survives Stoneheart that is. The author has already suggested the answer... After leaving Harrenhal but before returning to rescue Brienne Jaime had a dream. We know this dream was inspired by Bloodraven since Jaime rested his head on a weirwood stump. He is forced down into a cave by hooded figures brandishing spears. (A foreshadowing of Jaime's coming encounter with Catelyn) He is shoved into a pit with Brienne, who fears a bear. (A foreshadowing of Jaime's rescuing the maiden not so fair later in the (chapter) Tywin, Joffrey, and Cersei then appear. This predates the Red Wedding so Tywin and Joffrey are still alive at this point, but he and Joffrey will soon die, suffering deaths for which Jaime must later feel some blame, since he released Tyrion, who killed Tywin, and he was the Lord Commander of Joffrey's Kingsguard but unable to protect him. And of course Jaime is the leading candidate to be Cersei's valonqar. So this might be a foreshadowing of deaths of Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei. The trio departs but not before Tywin gives Jaime a sword. Keep in mind that the sword Tywin actually gives to Jaime is one of two made from Ice and Jaime gives his sword, in turn, to Brienne. In the dream Brienne gets a sword like Jaime's and they both burn--silvery blue, like ice, real ice, not the sword of course, but the allusion is there. Then Bloodraven, who sided with the red dragon against the brother he loved, sent Jaime's fallen Kinsguard brothers to hammer home Jaime's crime when he betrayed Aerys, notwithstanding Jaime's defense that Aerys planned to burn King's Landing. Rhaegar reminded him that he left his wife and children in Jaime's hands. Bloodraven seems to be preparing Jaime to raise up Jon, Rhaegar's heir, as king. Quote And all for naught. They found only darkness, dust, and rats. And dragons, lurking down below. He remembered the sullen orange glow of the coals in the iron dragon's mouth. The brazier warmed a chamber at the bottom of a shaft where half a dozen tunnels met. On the floor he'd found a scuffed mosaic of the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen done in tiles of black and red. I know you, Kingslayer, the beast seemed to be saying. I have been here all the time, waiting for you to come to me. And it seemed to Jaime that he knew that voice, the iron tones that had once belonged to Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone. Jaime I, Feast Jaime identifies with the Warrior... Quote Why would Cersei need the Warrior? She has me. Jaime II, Feast And the Warrior protects children... Quote The Warrior stands before the foe, protecting us where e'er we go. With sword and shield and spear and bow, he guards the little children. Samwell II, Storm Jaime wants to make good on his failed duty to protect Rhaegar's children, but Jaime doesn't believe that Rhaegar has any living children. Quote "... So long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. So we go on century after century, with us hating the Brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never be an end to it." "There could be." "How, my lord? The old wounds never heal, my father says." "My father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don't claim vengeance." "Their sons do," said Hoster, apologetically. "Not if you kill the sons as well. Ask the Casterlys about that if you doubt me. Ask Lord and Lady Tarbeck, or the Reynes of Castamere. Ask the Prince of Dragonstone." For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks. Jaime I, Dance But the George strongly hinted that Jamie will be a kingmaker... Quote "They belonged to Criston Cole, who served the first Viserys and the second Aegon." Jaime closed the White Book. "They called him Kingmaker." Jaime II, Feast Perhaps Jaime will believe Aegon's claim? Here is a telling quote from Barristan on his path to redemption after taking Robert's pardon... Quote "That was when I knew that to redeem myself I must find the true king, and serve him loyally, with all the strength that still remained me." Daenerys II, Dance And here's Jaime telling Lancel what he thought of Robert... Quote "Robert was no true king." Jaime IV, Feast And here is what he was wearing when he said that... Quote When he descended for the feast that night, Jaime Lannister wore a doublet of red velvet slashed with cloth-of-gold, and a golden chain studded with black diamonds. He had strapped on his golden hand as well, polished to a fine bright sheen. This was no fit place to wear his whites. His duty awaited him at Riverrun; a darker need had brought him here. Jaime IV, Feast Black on Red, like the Blackfyre dragon. Assuming Jaime is Cersei's valonqar, this quote would tie in nicely with Jaime unwittingly supporting the black dragon... Quote Black had never been a happy color on her. With her fair skin, it made her look half a corpse herself. Cersei II, Feast Then we get this moment in Baelor's Sept (keep in mind that Bloodraven is associated with mist)... Quote Dawn caught Jaime almost unawares. As the glass in the dome began to lighten, suddenly there were rainbows shimmering off the walls and floors and pillars, bathing Lord Tywin's corpse in a haze of many-colored light. The King's Hand was rotting visibly. His face had taken on a greenish tinge, and his eyes were deeply sunken, two black pits. Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body. The septons were the first to see, when they returned for their dawn devotions. They sang their songs and prayed their prayers and wrinkled up their noses, and one of the Most Devout grew so faint he had to be helped from the sept. Shortly after, a flock of novices came swinging censers, and the air grew so thick with incense that the bier seemed cloaked in smoke. All the rainbows vanished in that perfumed mist, yet the stench persisted, a sweet rotten smell that made Jaime want to gag. Jaime I, Feast So we see that as a mist forms about Tywin's corpse, a man so intimately associated with the deaths of Rhaegar's children, Jaime wants to gag on a sweet rotten stench. It seems to me that Jaime will turn on his family, and Cersei in particular. Quote "I dreamed about the queen," he said. "I was on my knees before her, swearing my allegiance, but she mistook me for my brother, Jaime, and fed me to her dragons." Tyrion II, Dance This could foreshadow Queen Daenerys, not Cersei, feeding Jaime to Drogon. But note that Drogon is black, if Aegon and Daenerys ally before they dance, and if Jaime helps Aegon ascend to the throne by killing Cersei, perhaps Aegon's Queen Daenerys will allow Jaime to take the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 8:47 PM, Sweaty_P said: 1v1 with jon con who he kills in single combat That's one way for Jaime to get the Rock. A hand of gold versus a man of stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 You should be asking what Aegon would do to Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Quote "Shall I proclaim a new king as well?" Crakehall asked, and Jaime read the question plain: Shall it be your father, or Robert Baratheon, or do you mean to try to make a new dragonking? He thought for a moment of the boy Viserys, fled to Dragonstone, and of Rhaegar's infant son Aegon, still in Maegor's with his mother. A new Targaryen king, and my father as Hand. How the wolves will howl, and the storm lord choke with rage. For a moment he was tempted, until he glanced down again at the body on the floor, in its spreading pool of blood. His blood is in both of them, he thought. He'll probably think his blood is "tainted" and could become a crazed nut like Aerys, like he does here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egged Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 He is the king slayer, I don't think it would boost Aegon's claims to have him as a supporter. Would Jaime hope to change things or the perception people have of him? Maybe, but Aegon's close supporters would have no interest in seeing that happen. I imagine part of Aegon's success in taking the throne, if he manages to, would rely on a good narrative to support him, including whatever propaganda would favor him. Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, have probably no favorable future with Aegon as ruler. Even Tyrion being hated by Cersei is probably not enough to convince the public that he isn't a monster. The Mad King's reputation probably has to be salvaged as well, which would imply a bit of rewriting history, and it would favor Jaime even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 16 minutes ago, Egged said: He is the king slayer, I don't think it would boost Aegon's claims to have him as a supporter. Would Jaime hope to change things or the perception people have of him? Maybe, but Aegon's close supporters would have no interest in seeing that happen. I imagine part of Aegon's success in taking the throne, if he manages to, would rely on a good narrative to support him, including whatever propaganda would favor him. Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, have probably no favorable future with Aegon as ruler. Even Tyrion being hated by Cersei is probably not enough to convince the public that he isn't a monster. The Mad King's reputation probably has to be salvaged as well, which would imply a bit of rewriting history, and it would favor Jaime even less. Jaime will have a hard time convincing Aegon. “Boy, I killed your grandpa to stop the wildfire from burning the city.” He will sound like a man making excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I doubt the two will ever encounter each other. Jaime probably won't enjoy being made an attainted traitor and banned from the Kingsgaurd when Aegon the Unconvincing takes over. And if Jon Connington gets his hands on Tommen, the child is gonna be very dead very quickly. I doubt Jaime would be open to supporting Aegon after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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