Jump to content

Watch, Watched, Watching: My Queen's Gambit brings all the boys to the yard


Veltigar

Recommended Posts

Tried watching El Cid yesterday... Good lord what a stinker, I'm surprised I managed to finish even one episode. I blame the fact that I knew that there was going to be a joust at the end. That was something I wanted to see, it turned out to be pretty shitty and anachronistic as well, but less so than the rest of the episode. The writing quality was below even GoT and on top of that, it lacked the great cast; VFX and production design that were GoT saving graces.

To get the bad taste of El Cid out of my mouth, I went on to watch Soul. I can only describe it as a triumph. Pretty sure that this is my favorite Pixar movie of all time and will become one of my all-time favorite animated movies, which is quite a feat. I would usually describe myself as a Pixar skeptic, for two reasons.

Firstly, I don't know what the official name is for the style of animation used by Pixar, Shrek and now Disney as well in stuff like Frozen and Wreck it Ralph, but I just don't like it. I prefer the pre-Toy Story style of 2D-animation by a mile. Secondly, I often feel that many of the greatest Pixar movies (e.g. Inside Out) are somehow to analytical to connect with me. It's a bit the same feeling I have with many of Stanley Kubrick's films. I can watch 2001 (or Inside Out) and recognize its brilliance but it somehow doesn't connect with me. 

Soul proved the exception on both counts. Firstly, the story was as intellectually brilliant as Peter Doctor's other great Pixar films, but the story resonated far more with me than any of his previous works. It finally checked of the emotional box for me. Secondly, I also loved the animation in the film. The scenes set on earth were the usual shit of this style, but everything outside of earth was brilliantly done. I really loved the design of the Terry's and Jerry's which actually to me showed the added value of the type of 3D animation that has become the standard of this period in animation history.

Anyways, to summarize, Soul is a wonderful work of art. Superbly imaginative animation, great voice-acting, an emotionally resonant and deeply intellectual narrative with magnificent characteristics, great humor and important lessons for young and old. Give me more of this!

19 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I  really enjoyed Queens Gambit, but I didn’t see it as flawless at all. It was certainly very well paced and as a mini series it felt very complete. It was well acted and looked great most of the time.

If it had flaws I’d say it’s because it felt pretty safe, like I’ve seen this story a thousand times before in other guises. It’s basically the heroes tale but with Chess and it’s a girl. 
 

Add to that I think there was an element of style over substance when it came to some of the topics. Her drug problem was really only touched on at a surface level and I don’t feel was really explored properly, the script didn’t really allow for too much depth because it was more of a visual show.

Also I really had to try to not be annoyed by the extreme cheese of that final episode with everyone cheering for her and working together to get her to win. It was all a little too smug at times, feel good, but smug.
 

But mostly it just didn’t feel like it was was pushing any boundaries or doing anything especially memorable. To me it was just an extremely well crafted piece of TV.

The Great however is not only well crafted, it really does feel unique, it has a sense of language and this wonderful world it has created that I can’t get enough of. 
 

Queens Gambit would be in my top shows of the year, but I also didn’t see it as perfect.

I think you are underestimating the impact of the gender dimension on the overall importance of the series! These type of stories are indeed a dime-a-dozen with a male genius at the center (although even if the Queen's Gambit was about a man, it would be far better than the average as these type of stories usually tend to be terribly unimaginative), but with a fully fleshed and well realized female protagonist at its center? That is exceptionally rare indeed.   

What's more, the Queen's Gambit is able to sell its take on the age-old story of the dangers of obsessive genius and how to counteract it (e.g. by tethering yourself to something real like the emotional support of a family) without denigrating the innovative celebration of feminine genius that lies at the heart of this show's uniqueness. It panders to neither MRA's nor SJW's which is just a refreshingly mature.

The fact that it does so without creating imaginary enemies, as so many of the stereotypical films in this genre often do (e.g. the horror that was that Turing biopic with Benedict Cumberbatch) and instead opts for a human portrayal of all the antagonists in the series is also a joy to see. After all, all the players in the series share one characteristic that overrides gender, time, space and class, which is the pure love of chess! 

The criticism that the show was too visual is something I do not get. Would you criticize a work of opera for containing too much singing? Film is a visual medium, so the fact that they used it so stylishly to build up her transition from surly orphan to the self-confident Queen of chess who plays not for others or even income, but purely for the joy and beauty of game is pretty much the gold standard for any visual medium. 

As to the theme of substance abuse

Spoiler

Here too, I feel like we differ. The substance abuse is not the only thing going on in this character's life, but it is definitely an integral aspect of the show and the series has some profound insights to offer on it.

It starts with the deeply unsettling realization that she never had to grow up to be a pill-swallowing drunk. Instead, she was forced into it by a careless (or indeed uncaring) institution which didn't want to invest resources in sorting our her emotional issues and instead preferred the quick fix of drugging their charges. This fundamental breach of responsibilities is something that should resonate with everyone, but particularly US citizens in the light of their Opioid crisis. It was good to see that this show dared to tackle that.

It then goes on to showcase Elizabeth Harmon becoming her own worst enemy, because she starts to believe that the pills and booze are the crux she needs to maintain her edge/talent, which is something many addicts will attest to. The trouble begins when you start to see a certain type of drug as the gatekeeper to happiness and for Harmon chess was happiness and the drugs enabled her to play her best game. That was the tragedy of the character throughout the series and the thing that kept her down, especially because her problem is exacerbated by the lack of satisfying human relationships in her life. Something she clearly understands on a subconscious level, which is why she again seeks out crutches like her twisted mother/daughter relationship with Alma or her ultimately unsatisfying sexual adventures with Belchick and Benny.

It was only when she reconnected on a deeply human level with Jolene and Tomnes that she was able to overcome her own weakness and mold them, as well as the memory of Shaibal and all the other characters she had friendly encounters with over the years into the support network she needed to overcome her addiction long enough to rise to the challenge and play her best game, thus fulfilling her destiny.

Whether her addiction was gone for good, we cannot be sure off, as the show stops at her high point. The series before had shown her addiction receding and returning in various degrees during the time that we followed her (provoked by the emotional stresses in her environment). That would probably be a trend during the rest of her life, although her newfound family would probably help her to not have it escalate beyond her control.

That's a more grounded understanding of addiction and some of its triggers and enabling factors than I remember in most films.

I think that is what I would say about the Queen's Gambit. For me The Great, while wonderful, did have some flaws in it. It also felt less important to the times we live in. It depends a bit on what your tradition is, but for me The Great's approach was a throwback (though probably a bit more imbued with post-modernism) to great British sitcoms of old like Allo Allo which also used real-life events to tell a daft and irreverent story to great effect. I like that The Great has taken up the mantle, but it still has room to grow and improve :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Veltigar Firstly I'll say that I totally agree with your points on El Cid and Soul, one being an empty soapy trailer trash version of history and the other being a wonderful joy inducing piece of art. 

On Queens Gambit, I get where you are coming from but I tend to disagree. On the female angle, I thought it was reasonably well done after watching the show, I enjoyed the way the show navigated her relationships with other male chess players, I didn't think it was coming across as some sort of 'female empowerment' tale or trying to rub messages in my face. I was slightly disappointed afterwards to learn that Harmon didn't actually exist, and that the whole story was fictional. I found it harder to reconcile it then as it was less powerful from that point.

I also don't think there any great exceptional value in a tale about a female taking on a traditionally male role in 2020, when that story is being told in many many films and tv shows. That Queens Gambit did a far better job it than others is to it's credit. 

The drug stuff I just felt was a little brushed over at times and others a bit heavy handed, her using the drugs almost like Asterix's special potion to gain powers of vision didn't exactly ground the show in reality, which is maybe my issue with it. If she really did have a problem with drugs and drink then I would expect it to take a far greater toll on her and be far harder to break free of. The story used a set of devices to get her over those hurdles which to me felt like they were story devices rather than a piece of reality. 

But anyway, each to their own, I think we both agree both shows were very good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We watched Hungerford last night - closest comparison I guess would be Cloverfield, but don't be put off because of that, I personally did not enjoy Cloverfield - and it you're looking for some low budget, shaky cam, relatively dark English horror you might give this a go. It does start out looking a little puerile, like it's going to be a sort of horror version of The Inbetweeners*, but it quite rapidly all gets a bit 'real' for the protagonists. It's something a bit different anyway, bit of a palate cleanser. It's an obvious homage to Shaun of the Dead but in a scfi way rather than a zombie way.

 

*which I have never watched by the way

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now that the Christmas period is over and all those films are done, I've returned to the tv show backlog.

Shows I watch with my wife are Better Call Saul S2, X Files S8 are the two I'm currently watching. Once BCS S2 is done I'm gonna finally start Cobra Kai and rotate between all three shows. Once they are all done I will start the 2 shows I've been meaning to watch for years. Buffy and Orange is the New Black.

The ones I watch alone are Gotham S1 and X Men S4 (The 90s cartoon). After X Men and Gotham S2, I'll finally try Agents of Shield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will not watch:  new Sex and the City.  HBO must be getting reeaally desperate to green light putting this on the air.  For everything there is a season....and the time for this show has passed according to me, a huge fan of the original and the 1st movie. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watched The King of Staten Island. It could have been about 20 minutes shorter, but overall I liked it. I don’t watch SNL, so I wasn’t at all familiar with the lead (Pete Davidson), he was pretty good though. Judd Apatow is usually kind of hit or miss for me, but I thought this one was better than most of his stuff. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched the first episode of Lupin on Netflix. It's a new French series about a Senegalese immigrant plotting revenge on the rich family who cause his father's death, inspired by the final gift from his father - a copy of Arsène Lupin, Gentleman Burglar. It was a fun heist story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/9/2021 at 8:30 AM, Veltigar said:

I finished The Queen's Gambit yesterday. Search seems to be down, so I wasn't able to locate a dedicated thread about it on here, but that was one hell of an experience. My initial take has not shifted in the slightest, I just absolutely adored this series from beginning to end.

It's a shame that it's only 7 episodes. They might be perfect, but they are still so few in number. I think it would be difficult to recapture the magic of that limited run, but if they were to try a second season, I would be on board 100%. If any series earned a reprisal, it is this one.

There is so much to love about it, that it's quite hard to begin making a list of it. There are the uniformly brilliant performances, in particular of Ana Taylor Joy, who is an old-fashioned Hollywood grandee in the making if you ask me. Watching her play Elizabeth Harmon reminded me of the first time I saw John Boyega in Attack on the Block. You knew that guy had it in him to become a movie star and with Taylor Joy, I have that same feeling, only more intense. I am eagerly anticipating her role in Furiosa and the overall development of her career.

Apart from the performances, there is the fact that this series is magnificently directed and filmed. You feel the love that is poured into it. There is also the wonderful set design and costuming.  I have never really been nostalgic about 60s style and interior design, but this series makes me want to jump in a time machine to experience it all. The way they use the sets and costuming to build narrative and character is textbook perfect (

  Reveal hidden contents

e.g. her outfit at the end of the final episode which transformed her into a living representation of the Queen's piece.)

On top of that, you could really feel the love for chess ring out of every corner of this series. I have never been more than a basic amateur, but they sold the purity and beauty this game must have to the grandmasters in a way that was just enthralling. 

Finally, I can say that I thought the narrative was perfect. The only (and utterly invalid) knock on it that I can give is that it wasn't based on a true story. Sparkling dialogue throughout, believable character motivations and growth and just a resoundingly empowering story.

  Reveal hidden contents

They flirted with the cliched stereotype of the troubled genius (think Crowe as Nash), but by bringing in Harmon's gender and examining how that impacted her career path as a player and her development as a human being, they somehow managed to wring profound insights out of that old cliche.

They really rode a fine line throughout the whole series and they stuck the landing perfectly. At one point in the finale I was worried, because I thought they would upend the tale of Harmon's gender-stereotype breaking genius by having her rely on the support crew of (all male) former adversaries to figure out Borkov's next move.

If the show had left it at that, it would still have been great (and a good continuation of the theme of individualistic Americans crumbling against the cooperative Soviet chess spirit) but it would have reverted back to the white knight trope it had fought so hard against.

Luckily, it didn't do that and instead the show became transcendent as Borgov just threw the aid she got from her prep team completely out of the window, after which she defeated him easily completely on her own. Talk about the show being able to have its cake and eat it too!

By solving her stand-off with Borkov in that way, Harmon's exceptional genius was preserved and celebrated without denigrating the support of her male support crew whose help wasn't the intellectual prep they gave Harmon (as Borkov upended that in one move) but the fact that they acted as a family when she needed them and thus saved her from self-destructively taking pills or alcohol.

A lesser show would not have recognized that the support Harmon needed to realize her full potential wasn't intellectual in nature, but rather emotional. It brought the entire series full circle. Absolutely wonderful writing. 

The only question I still have in the end is

  Reveal hidden contents

What happened between Harmon and Townes? Do they imply he's gay? I feel like they left their interaction a bit ambiguous. 

EDIT: One other thing I forgot to praise was how much I appreciated the internationalism of this series. There were groups (the US government, the Soviets and the Christian group) which sought to misappropriate the spirit of chess and use it for its own end, but I loved how

  Reveal hidden contents

Harmon managed to stay above that. Not only because that preserved her agency and independence, but also because it rightly treated chess as a universal achievement of mankind, something to be celebrated by the peoples of all nations for bringing people together (as perfectly shown in the end when she goes on to play the random Russian recreational chess players in the parc).

Borkov might have been scary, but he wasn't evil. He served the same role as Ivan Drago in IV without ever being treated or behaving as an inhuman, uncaring enemy.

 

I'm not sure a second season is really necessary from a story perspective but I will most certainly watch one if produced. In addition to the costuming and the set design, I also really liked the classical music soundtrack (particularly in the last chess scene and the walk through the park).  

Also, the depiction of the Russians was great particularly in the current world climate. They rose above petty politics and it felt respectful and sincere and was a nice message of unity. The park scene was also great in that it didn't feel like there was some Russian or American divide or distinction. Everyone is just a normal person that happens to enjoy the same game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Isis said:

We watched Hungerford last night - closest comparison I guess would be Cloverfield, but don't be put off because of that, I personally did not enjoy Cloverfield - and it you're looking for some low budget, shaky cam, relatively dark English horror you might give this a go. 

This looks interesting, will give it a go.

Speaking of low budget English horror, The Borderlands (2013) is well worth a watch. Tense and atmospheric, with a hecc of an ending, this is one of my all time favourite British horror movies.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We watched a three part doc on Netflix called Fear City: New York vs The Mafia at the weekend. Topical for me because I am listening to the Talking Sopranos podcast currently and at the end of S2 there's the bit where someone (trying not to spoil - it's 20 years old not sure that's necessary but whatever) chooses to get into bad debt with the mafia and what happens to them. It's also topical as it features Rudy Giuliani being the figurehead for making the case to take down the heads of the five families. By the end you're like, yes, that was absolutely fascinating from an historical and procedural perspective BUT ALSO WTAF happened to Giuliani since 2001, how did he fall so far? My mind, it boggles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, williamjm said:

I watched the first episode of Lupin on Netflix. It's a new French series about a Senegalese immigrant plotting revenge on the rich family who cause his father's death, inspired by the final gift from his father - a copy of Arsène Lupin, Gentleman Burglar. It was a fun heist story.

Same. My wife was reminded of The Heist, so looks like this may be a show we can watch together.

We finished last season of Blindspot. Was an ok show, nothing special. Interestingly, one of the writers also did Stargate. Bill Nye (the science guy) played himself, as the father of Paterson; Blindspot is linked to Stargate in that Nye’s wife/Paterson’s mother is co-writing a book with Stargate’s Mackay!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, williamjm said:

I watched the first episode of Lupin on Netflix. It's a new French series about a Senegalese immigrant plotting revenge on the rich family who cause his father's death, inspired by the final gift from his father - a copy of Arsène Lupin, Gentleman Burglar. It was a fun heist story.

Watched it last night - great entertainment! Main actor is excellent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, WarGalley said:

I'm not sure a second season is really necessary from a story perspective but I will most certainly watch one if produced. In addition to the costuming and the set design, I also really liked the classical music soundtrack (particularly in the last chess scene and the walk through the park).  

Also, the depiction of the Russians was great particularly in the current world climate. They rose above petty politics and it felt respectful and sincere and was a nice message of unity. The park scene was also great in that it didn't feel like there was some Russian or American divide or distinction. Everyone is just a normal person that happens to enjoy the same game.

Agreed on all counts! :) I'm going to read the novel to tide me over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Vaughn said:

Watched it last night - great entertainment! Main actor is excellent.

I agree that Omar Sy is good in the lead role, he's got plenty of charisma and he's showing some versatility as well with the different roles Assane is adopting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mexal, Alice in Borderlands was a great recommendation. Enjoyed very much.

Currently watching CounterpartPretend It's a City, and other randos that pop up.

Not sure I've seen recommendations here for How to ... with John WIlson. It's absolutely awesome. One of the best shows of the year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched Fighting with my Family about WWE diva star Paige, her relationship with her wrestling family, and her training and entry into the WWE. Feel good family movie with some (on the more adult-side) humor that surprised me with how well it landed. Nick Frost and Lena Headey were the best parts of the movie in my opinion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Veltigar said:

Agreed on all counts! :) I'm going to read the novel to tide me over.


I was gonna do that but I read a quick 'what differs' account and it's put me off coz apparently the book is a much colder and less feelgood enterprise than the show with the characters more unlikeable and while there's nothing wrong with that and it might ultimately be better, with what the show ended up being I would definitely be disappointed if I ended up not liking Beth.

Anyway on the discussion I do think its storyline of substance abuse lagged some, in large part because there just wasn't the time to do it properly (the show's rapid-fire timejumps were probably its main flaw overall, I said back when I watched it I had issues with how segments that could probably stand alone in shorter episodes were instead crammed together into 40-minute episodes with other bits that didn't need to be so compressed). But also her big spiral before Jolene shows up was depicted badly, I found it slapstick hilarious and I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to be.

On your spoiler question:

Yeah, Townes is implied to be gay. They talk around it, but when you combine with 'if only they knew' with the half-naked bloke showing up in his room when she thinks he's coming on to her in their earlier meeting, it's fairly definite I feel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, WarGalley said:

I watched Fighting with my Family about WWE diva star Paige, her relationship with her wrestling family, and her training and entry into the WWE. Feel good family movie with some (on the more adult-side) humor that surprised me with how well it landed. Nick Frost and Lena Headey were the best parts of the movie in my opinion. 

I only watched this because of Florence Pugh, but I thought it was pretty decent. Liked it more than I thought I would. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I only watched this because of Florence Pugh, but I thought it was pretty decent. Liked it more than I thought I would. 

Yeah this is actually the first time I've seen Pugh in a movie. She didn't blow me away in this but didn't do poorly either. I just couldn't get a good enough sense in this particular role and this type of movie to properly gauge her.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...