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Fury Resurrected

US Politics- Banana Republic President’s Day Sale

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The way I see it, Trump only agreed to a peaceful transition of power because his cabinet said he's be 25'd or impeached out of office if he didn't publicly agree to go quietly (for him). If he stand backed and stand by'd this thing I'm sure there would be enough Republican senators grumbling about thinking about voting to convict so as to make Trump's handlers not totally sure they wouldn't do it. But if it came down to it, I don't think enough of them would actually have the spine for it. So it's a bluff that worked, IMO. Even if the House now goes ahead and rapidly impeaches, nearly all Republican senators, apart from Romney I think, would just say he's agreed to a peaceful transition so let's just pretend none of this happened and not convict.

 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

What offences/likely sentences are available for forcing entry yesterday (assuming no other criminal offences were commited). 

Trespassing/entering a restricted government building is a misdemeanor and would result in $1,000 fine. Now, if those people had been Black or Native American/Indigenous, you would see charges elevated to a felony because using furniture/barricades as a battering ram during said trespass/entering a restricted government building would be seen as also employing a deadly weapon and can get you up to 10 years in jail. This will not happen, though, because these jackasses were white. Damage to government property is also a misdemeanor that carries $1,000 fine. this is all per this NBC post: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/live-blog/electoral-college-certification-updates-n1252864/ncrd1253128#liveBlogHeader

Edited by Xray the Enforcer

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1 minute ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The way I see it, Trump only agreed to a peaceful transition of power because his cabinet said he's be 25'd or impeached out of office if he didn't publicly agree to go quietly (for him). If he stand backed and stand by'd this thing I'm sure there would be enough Republican senators grumbling about thinking about voting to convict so as to make Trump's handlers not totally sure they wouldn't do it. But if it came down to it, I don't think enough of them would actually have the spine for it. So it's a bluff that worked, IMO. Even if the House now goes ahead and rapidly impeaches, nearly all Republican senators, apart from Romney I think, would just say he's agreed to a peaceful transition so let's just pretend none of this happened and not convict.

 

I agree it's something like this. Staffers have released stuff before that they wish he'd say but Trump comes out and blows it all up. It reads like those types of statements. Seen a number of analysts who agree that this is more to stave off the heat and a removal attempt but highly unlikely anything Trump has any intention of honoring, especially after what he did yesterday.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Well, as they saw it, replacing bourgeois democracy with worker democracy - Stalinist Marxism-Leninism had not yet been formulated, so these were literal Workers Councils. The Soviet Union itself would not actually exist for another two years.

Good point, I guess I got carried away looking at it with the knowledge of hindsight. Case in point, the movement was quite diverse and didn't have any kind of central leadership either. I guess the best they could possibly accomplish was autonomous local governments of worker councils similarly to... well, Italy before the fascists took them out. But yeah, deploying the same anti-democratic paramilitaries that just tried to topple the government and watch them go at them with extreme prejudice wasn't exactly the most democratic way to go about this.

Then again, as far as I can tell the guy in charge of the military there, Oskar von Watter, was a tacit supporter of the insurrectionists in Berlin and purposely escalated the situation thinking he'd throw a wrench into the social democrats' earlier call for a general strike that just went out of control after the Kapp Putsch was already over. It's beyond me why Ebert didn't replace him immediately after he was clearly disregarding the orders from Berlin.

Edited by Toth

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He'll spend the next 4 years motivating further acts of domestic terrorism.

America is completely fucked. The police force is chock full of white supremacists, and way too many of the politicians are willing to accept pretty much any travesty if it benefits them in some way.

I don't really see how that can be fixed.

 

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With all of the talk of Wray's and National Security's highlighting domestic terrorism lately and how Trump blew up it which raises even more eyebrows now, I have to guess that that prosecution will focus on that angle if they can get it.

So figure out whether they're self-radicalized joiners on or whether they're part of a larger organization. When it's a larger organization, maybe that looks like a RICO thing where they use lower level types to target the leaders to bring down the organization? Ted Cruz has tried to get Wray to open a RICO case against Antifa.

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Nah USA is fine, this is just a minor blip. I know all my Indian immigrant friends would give up their right arms before leaving USA and returning to their native country lol. Its still the best country for quality of life and opportunities. This polticial stuff happens everywhere from time to time. Weren't the riots in the 60s much worse? 

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2 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

He'll spend the next 4 years motivating further acts of domestic terrorism.

America is completely fucked. The police force is chock full of white supremacists, and way too many of the politicians are willing to accept pretty much any travesty if it benefits them in some way.

I don't really see how that can be fixed.

 

The USA leads the way in everything related to partisan democracy, including it's ultimate and permanent demise. Though this isn't the beginning of the end, nor is it the end of the beginning, it's the end of the beginning of the beginning of the end of the beginning. But it is a beginning and an end.

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I’ll start by admitting that I didn’t see this coming. I thought there’d be protests and some violence but I had in mind ‘regular’ stuff like throwing rocks at the cops and smashing a few windows. I didn’t account for the pusillanimity of the US police. Whoever was in charge of that security operation needs to be prosecuted. Bad as it was, this could actually have been a lot worse.

Trump and his enablers also need to be prosecuted, but will they? I don’t have time to get into that just now but I think it’s a more complicated question than people assume. Whatever you say about previous administrations, this is unprecedented.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Nah USA is fine, this is just a minor blip. I know all my Indian immigrant friends would give up their right arms before leaving USA and returning to their native country lol. Its still the best country for quality of life and opportunities. This polticial stuff happens everywhere from time to time. Weren't the riots in the 60s much worse? 

Depends on your definition of worse. If by worse you mean making white people a bit afraid of scary black people, sure they were worse. But if you mean the president of the country fomenting insurrection in an illegitimate attempt at remaining in power, enabled by a not insignificant number of elected representatives, and a complicit segment of the media promoting the falsehoods as fact as well as actions of police that need to be closely examined for complicity, no, this situation is significantly worse.

Also, I don't think the bolded is true anymore, if it ever was.

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

I don't really see how that can be fixed.

 

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

/humour (just in case...)

Edited by Spockydog

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Posted (edited)

Governments typically don't stay stable for long historically and rather than catastrophizing, this is maybe more the scales being removed from our eyes on that. The world's democracies have been lulled into a false sense of security they should never, never have as it kills vigilance. The Founding Fathers knew this would happen sometimes. Strength is in how you get back up and recover.

The Constitution is also a rebuilding document. By design. I saw this coming (rural folks are almost raised to see it as inevitable) and I expect worse yet. I'm very encouraged that rather than something serious, it more resembles an episode of Jackass.

Edited by Lollygag

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18 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

The Soviet Union itself would not actually exist for another two years.

Idea of exporting revolution was implemented in 1920. Polish - Bolshevik war was, from Bolshevik POV, a trial to get to German commerades. And non existence of SU does not mean Leninism was not formulated. Lenin wrote "What to do?" in 1903 and the Internationale III has been working since march 1919.

Maybe most German veterans did not have communist views? Especially officers. Thinking of pre-WWI Europe I imagine socialists in prisons rather, than in imperial armies' officer corpses.

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15 minutes ago, broken one said:

Maybe most German veterans did not have communist views? Especially officers. Thinking of pre-WWI Europe I imagine socialists in prisons rather, than in imperial armies' officer corpses.

The officers generally were monarchists, obviously since they were mostly recruited from aristocracy. But but for the grunt-work they drafted everyone who could hold a rifle straight, so you can imagine that the soldiers will be of every possible ideology. Generally the saying went that the army was monarchist, the navy communist and (later on) the airforce was nazi. Note that the Kiel mutiny that sparked the German Revolution that saw the Emperor ousted was modeled after the Russian revolution with soldier and worker councils taking command of northern Germany.

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Posted (edited)

That $750 billion the US spends on national defence, plus the couple hundred billion $ spent on law enforcement is clearly money well spent...

The US capital fell in a couple of hours to a bunch of morons, including one cosplaying as Chewbacca.

Edited by Derfel Cadarn

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4 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

That $750 billion the US spends on national defence, plus the couple hundred billion $ spent on law enforcement is clearly money well spent...

The US capital fell in a couple of hours to a bunch of morons, including one cosplaying as Chewbacca.

That budget is reserved for war against brown people internal and external. 

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2 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

The US capital fell in a couple of hours to a bunch of morons, including one cosplaying as Chewbacca.

Yeah, well, the death star must've cost way more than what we spend on defense and it got blown up by only a few morons and Chewbacca.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Depends on your definition of worse. If by worse you mean making white people a bit afraid of scary black people, sure they were worse. But if you mean the president of the country fomenting insurrection in an illegitimate attempt at remaining in power, enabled by a not insignificant number of elected representatives, and a complicit segment of the media promoting the falsehoods as fact as well as actions of police that need to be closely examined for complicity, no, this situation is significantly worse.

Also, I don't think the bolded is true anymore, if it ever was.

For immigrants it is though...The tough regulations on hiring , language barriers, and lack of high paying jobs in other countries still keep America the best in opportunities.. That's why I specified both aspects. One might argue on Canada with its immigrant friendly practices but 40% taxes and conservative employers (leading to under employment massively) means you can send little to none back home. Also the weather and healthcare sucks. 

Anyways this is a discussion for another thread so I'll stop :P but my point is that for most immigrants America still remains the best combination in terms of earning potential and quality of life...

However embarrassed and scared you guys mightve felt from this situation, I think it's a bit premature to herald your own country's start of a 'decline' cause of this presidency. 

Edited by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mormont said:

Trump and his enablers also need to be prosecuted, but will they? I don’t have time to get into that just now but I think it’s a more complicated question than people assume. Whatever you say about previous administrations, this is unprecedented.

Not to fear, his prosecution is already in motion:

Quote

Iraq’s judiciary has a slightly different idea about what to do with Donald Trump next. Associated Press report that an arrest warrant has been issued for the outgoing US president in connection with the killing of an Iranian general last year.

The warrant was issued by a judge in Baghdad’s investigative court tasked with probing the Washington-directed drone strike that killed Gen. Qassim Soleimani and Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the court’s media office said. They were killed outside the capital’s airport last January.

 

Edited by IheartIheartTesla

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So that's one thing the presidents since and including George HW Bush have collectively achieved, some deserving more credit than others: Iraq and Iran are now friends. I'm not entirely sure that's what was intended with the whole bringing peace to the Middle East thing.

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