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Malgoth

Why Aegon is a better ruler and leader than Daenerys and Jon combine

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Posted (edited)

Everyone knows that Aegon is an awesome and charismatic character, but not many readers know that he also a better ruler and leader than Daenerys and Jon combine.

What a make character/person a good, even potential, ruler and leader? Obviously the most important thing it's education. What we know about Aegon's education?

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Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.

That is quite impressive. I'm sure that most of Westerosi don't get half as good education. He also received practical skills, which makes him more independent and more closer to peasant class people, as well as more appealing to them, and knowledge of the multiple languages will surely helps with foreign diplomacy.

Heavy education in faith of the Seven and religiosity of Aegon is huge matter on it's on. Absolute majority of Westerosi is religious and most follow Faith of the Seven religion. As we know Jon is following old Gods, who is worshipped mostly in the North and Daenerys, wherever dark Gods of death and destruction she follows, unlikely would be popular in Meereen or Westeros.

Oh yes, Daenerys. What little Daenerys have been taught by Viserys, didn't helped her much considering that her kingdom Meereen is in the war with the entire Slaver's Bay, has huge economic and epidemic problems, not to mention social and cultural catastrophes. She failed at all fronts. Turns out not all problems can be dealt with dragonfire and an army of eunuchs. She still has support of the liberated slaves, but for how long? Maybe I'm too harsh on her, after all she is only 16. the same age Greta Thunberg was when became famous and quite similar to the Daenerys in character . Of course, if Greta had dragons, she would have solved all the world problems... Or would she?

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"I don't want your hope. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I do. Every day."  Daenerys Greta Thunberg

Not all the problems can be fixed right now, for some it takes several tomorrows and even years.

 

What about Jon, you would ask? Ah yes, Jon. He had good education, as good as he could have get in the North, which helped him get into position of power when he became Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, an elite Order of murderers, robbers and traitors, with some occasional volunteers. In this company he was, indeed, the best of the worst. Still, props should be given when they earned : Jon managed to make peace and recruit desperate free folk who was running for their lives from the Others.

For the majority of the Night's Watch Jon made a bunch of questionable decisions and Jon's determination to to desert from the Order and brake his oath, over some lunatic insult him, was the final straw which broke the direwolfs back and he was executed by his fellow brother. Which also, by the way, was completely by the word of the law.

 

What else make a good ruler? Well, it's a team. Loyal, competent team of professionals. This also the place where Aegon shines : lord Jon Connington, Haldon, Lemora, ser Rolly Duckfield, Franklyn Flowers, Lysono Maar, lord Laswell Peake with brothers and, the most important, Illyrio Mopatis and THE VARYS. Any ruler or leader who has full loyalty and support of the Spider, are 10 steps ahead of any other. The only person who close to Aegon and, likely, to betray him is Harry Strickland. Still, at least he isn't stabbed in the back and front by his brothers (Jon) or has entire list of prepared prophesied betrayals (Dany).

Edited by Malgoth

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Posted (edited)

I agree, Aegon is my favorite ruler too, and his short reign should be a brief ray of light in the shitstorm that is Westeros. He has a loyal and competent army not prone to war crimes (unless ordered too that is). He has good loyal advisors, he has a good education, and generally seems to be a decent honorable person. He will also have the support of the people due tot he faitha nd all the shit Cersei and the Lannisters pulled

However let's be honest with ourselves, his chances of surviving the end of TWOW and Dany are slim to none.

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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1 minute ago, Mithras said:

Next: Why Bran the Broken is a better ruler than the entirety of the Targaryens

Oh hell no

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9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

He has a loyal and competent army not prone to war crimes (unless ordered too that is).

Aren’t some of them

Spoiler

raping people? From the Winds chapter.

 

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10 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Aren’t some of them

 

Ah, I forgot that detail. Honestly it seems to be kinda strange. Stannis has no problem maintaining discipline in a ragtag crowd that worships 3 religions and had men from several parts of the realm, yet somehow, the Golden Company, the most disciplined fighting force in the world, behind only the Unsullied cannot.

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3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Aren’t some of them

  Reveal hidden contents

raping people? From the Winds chapter.

 

I'm certain that there wasn't raping. Lord Jon ordered so. Some girls, maybe, were persuaded to a completely consensual sexual relationship.

 

19 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

However let's be honest with ourselves, his chances of surviving the end of TWOW and Dany are slim to none.

Aegon will probably survived in TWoW. After all, it's silly to kill character who was just introduced in the series, not to mention all that hype and Varys with Illyrio standing behind him. 

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Posted (edited)

Why he is the worst leader than Maegor, Aegon the Unworthy and Aerys combined? 

Because he is the conceited puppet of a pair of gangsters, a bitter old lepper with grudges, exiled criminals, an army of Bronns and to follow religious fanatics, Sand Snakes and every opportunist with an axe to grind in the seven kingdoms. 

Westeros will welcome the Others as a sweet release before he is done. 

Edited by The Sleeper

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Malgoth said:

Aegon will probably survived in TWoW. After all, it's silly to kill character who was just introduced in the series, not to mention all that hype and Varys with Illyrio standing behind him. 

Now, as much as I like him, he's not a character, not really. He's a tool of GRRM to throw a wrench into everything Dany stands for. He's there to subvert the savior beyond the sea trope and ensure that Dany is viewed not a kind liberator, but as a cruel usurper and kinslayer, aka Maegor with teats

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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43 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Ah, I forgot that detail. Honestly it seems to be kinda strange. Stannis has no problem maintaining discipline in a ragtag crowd that worships 3 religions and had men from several parts of the realm, yet somehow, the Golden Company, the most disciplined fighting force in the world, behind only the Unsullied cannot.

Stannis' men were getting pretty rapey with Val. He should have shut that down. 

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I guess I just don't get why some fans feel the need to persuade other fans which fictional ruler is better. I mean I have my likes and preferences, but it ends there. I have zero investment in convincing anyone else Tommen is a good kid if he can just get away from Cersei or Stannis is the one true king. People act like they have a personal stake in who rules this fictional land and it's kinda silly.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I have zero investment in convincing anyone else Tommen is a good kid if he can just get away from Cersei

I mean he's a good kid even under Cersei, which is quite the feat

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Posted (edited)

Aegon is a still unproven 16 year old whose only action we've seen him take directly was flipping a cyvasse board over because he lost. Jury's still out on the boy's judgement.

Jon got the same education that Aegon got, and that Robb got. Education ain't everything. As recent events yesterday confirmed, when six supposedly well educated "leaders" helped whip up a mob which took over the halls of government. Educated people can be very dumb.

Why should we take anything Varys says at face value? He's probably wrong about half of it. Or maybe lying. We don't know.

Dany has the same amount of practical experience as Aegon, and also possibly more, since again, we only have Varys's word to go on. Also, Greta Thunberg is an activist, not a ruler. Your comparison is unfair.

Jon only had his sister threatened with rape by a well known sadist. He can maybe be forgiven a lapse in judgement? That was also exacerbated by wine his future assasains plied him with for some reason.

Anyway, I'm taking a "wait and see" approach with Aegon the Unconvincing. We'll wait until we die, and see what he does when the book comes out in the afterlife.

Edited by Nathan Stark

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I don't see what Aegon has actually done to warrant such praise. Wagons background is certainly described in a way that would make me say "Hmmm sounds like good King material!" But we have to consider who is describing him and who are the power players behind his appearance. Can we trust those involved in his upbringing to be honest about Shia heritage and training? Let's drop the whole question of wether Aegon really is who he was raised as and just focus on experience. We really don't know that much a about the guy so it's really hard to make a comparison with Lord Snow or Dany Stormborn. Although that doesn't mean that he doesn't have an equally impressive background of training and maturation through hardship. The Cyvasse scene with Tyrion I think means nothing and shouldn't be read into too deeply, remember that Tyrion goaded Lord Snow during the trip to the wall and got a rose out of him too.  I just don't think there is enough information to give even a slightly competent and rarified assessment of his abilities.

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Aegon is untried.  He failed an early but important test.  Patience.  Little Tyrion played him like a card.  He may have potential but that is all it is, potential.  Daenerys has already proven her leadership with the Dothraki, The Unsullied, and many of the Meerenese.  Jon can lead his peers and he's brave.  It's just too bad at the end.  He should have tossed Arya of out his mind altogether.  Do this.  Wait and see how Aegon [Blackfyre] behave towards Arianne before you make claims of his leadership skills. 

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11 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Stannis' men were getting pretty rapey with Val. He should have shut that down.

He has an iron ass for justice. But he is a misogynist too. Just like Randyll Tarly 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Now, as much as I like him, he's not a character, not really. He's a tool of GRRM to throw a wrench into everything Dany stands for. He's there to subvert the savior beyond the sea trope and ensure that Dany is viewed not a kind liberator, but as a cruel usurper and kinslayer, aka Maegor with teats

G. R.R. Martin told us that second Dance of Dragons gonna happen in asoiaf and I'm 90% sure that "dancing" will be Aegon with Dany. So, obviously, Aegon is pretty big deal for the series. I agree that when Dany will actually get to the Westeros, there will be beloved king Aegon, under whom many faction united. In this scenario, it's Daenerys with her horde of dothrakis, army of eunuchs and ironborns, will be viewed as foreign invader and usurper.

I'm also pretty sure that Varys kidnapped Tyrek Lannister during the riots in the KL, for his 4D chess political strategy, and later on recruited him. After all, considering that Varys killed Kevan in TDwD, which shortened line of succession of lordship of Casterly Rock even farther. Now, all what is stand between Tyrek and grand lordship is Cersei, her bastard children, Martyn and his sister Janei. If status of Cersei's children will become known and with Kevan's younger kids something happens, Tyrek could become a new lord of the Lannisters and the Westerlands. 

The same goes with the Stormlands. I don't actually believe that Jon Connington can become a grand lord of the Stormlands, more likely that Varys will try to get Edric Storm from Lys, true born son of the "beloved" Robert Baratheon. After all, Varys originate from Lys and likely has some spy network there. So, by putting Edric under the banner of Aegon, he will win stormlords.

The Vale and the Reach are tricky. If in the Vale Varys has an agent Shadrich "the Mad Mouse", who can snatch ether Robert Arryn or Sansa Stark, than in the Reach all what Aegon has mysterious "friends" of the members of the GK. If it's some Rowans or Peakes, then it's doesn't help much Aegon's cause, but if it's Randyll Tarly himself, who grew tired of his incompetent overlord, things will get pretty interesting.

So, Aegon has a very good chance to do what even Dany with dragons couldn't - unite Westeros, or at least most of it.

13 hours ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Aegon is untried.  He failed an early but important test.  Patience.  Little Tyrion played him like a card.  He may have potential but that is all it is, potential.  Daenerys has already proven her leadership with the Dothraki, The Unsullied, and many of the Meerenese.  Jon can lead his peers and he's brave.  It's just too bad at the end.  He should have tossed Arya of out his mind altogether.  Do this.  Wait and see how Aegon [Blackfyre] behave towards Arianne before you make claims of his leadership skills. 

Aegon also led his men into assault of the Storm End, it's takes a bravery, something Dany never did or had.

Also, statistically likely (80%) that Aegon is Targaryen :

  1. He a real Aegon, son of Rhaegar and Elia; 
  2. Descendant of Aerion Brightflame;
  3. Bastard son of Rhaegar and Ashara Dayne;
  4. Twin brother of Jon;
  5. Blackfyre (*_*)
Edited by Malgoth

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1 minute ago, Malgoth said:

I'm also pretty sure that Varys kidnapped Tyrek Lannister during the riots in the KL, for his 4D chess political strategy, and later on recruited by him. After all, considering that Varys killed Kevan in TDwD, which shortened line of succession of lordship of Casterly Rock even father. Now, all what is stand between Tyrek and grand lordship is Cersei, her bastard children, Martyn and his sister Janei. If status of Cersei's children will become known and with Kevan's younger kids something happens, Tyrek could become new lord of the Lannisters and the Westerlands. 

That's a distinct possibility. I like the idea a lot.

2 minutes ago, Malgoth said:

The Vale and the Reach are tricky. If in the Vale Varys has an agent Shadrich "the Mad Mouse", who can snatch ether Robert Arryn or Sansa Stark, than in the Reach all what Aegon has is a mysterious "friends" of the members of the GK. If it's some Rowans or Peakes, then it's does help much to Aegon cause, but if it's Randyll Tarly himself, who tired of his incompetent overlord, thing will get pretty interesting.

The way I see it, Mace will blunder into a discount Agincourt, and then Tarly, Rowan and Peake will turn cloak, thus securing the Reach, and the other Reachmen army to Aegon

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13 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Why should we take anything Varys says at face value? He's probably wrong about half of it. 

Is Varys... Preston Jacobs?

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1 hour ago, Malgoth said:

I'm also pretty sure that Varys kidnapped Tyrek Lannister during the riots in the KL, for his 4D chess political strategy, and later on recruited him. After all, considering that Varys killed Kevan in TDwD, which shortened line of succession of lordship of Casterly Rock even father. Now, all what is stand between Tyrek and grand lordship is Cersei, her bastard children, Martyn and his sister Janei. If status of Cersei's children will become known and with Kevan's younger kids something happens, Tyrek could become new lord of the Lannisters and the Westerlands. 

I think the exact same thing but with LF instead of Varys.

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