US Politics- One Flew over the Cuckcoup’s Nest

[Fury Resurrected]

Carry on

[Myshkin]

First in on the double-fisting!

ETA: the drinking term, you filthy pervs. Though, I mean, you could always PM me.

[Fury Resurrected]

I had to edit because I missed the opportunity to do Cuckcoup instead of coupkoo.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Great title!

[Larry of the Lawn]

30 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

First in on the double-fisting!

ETA: the drinking term, you filthy pervs. Though, I mean, you could always PM me.

Lemme slide into those dms

[Myshkin]

8 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Lemme slide into those dms

Please do. It’s far past time this board got another round of creepy PMs going. It’s a tradition that I fear may be dying. 

[Fury Resurrected]

5 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Please do. It’s far past time this board got another round of creepy PMs going. It’s a tradition that I fear may be dying. 

I assure you, they are not.

[Durckad]

29 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Lemme slide into those dms

Ah, an expert at the double-fisting I see.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Um, Politics?

[Myshkin]

32 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said:

I assure you, they are not.

Are you saying that you are all creepy PMing each other without me? 

ETA: that would be a real Ted Cruz move (there, politics).

[ants]

Haven't gone through the last thead, mostly happened overnight/during work here.  Did anyone post this, and any idea if its at all accurate?  Some seems to read as giving a pass to the cops, but some reads pretty bad for Trump/Trump fans.  Could all be rubbish. 

https://www.quora.com/Many-Donald-Trump-supporters-who-stormed-the-Capitol-today-took-selfies-and-allowed-others-to-post-photos-of-them-Since-this-could-prove-an-easy-way-to-identify-them-what-is-the-possibility-of-seeing-some-arrested

Quote

Actually stupidity has its costs, and its costs are huge.

Earlier today a FBI reaction and investigation team arrived at the Capitоl and started the process of prosecution subjects. An associated group is aimed at investigation of the Capitоl Police. Their first duty is to define the crimes, and from what I can figure and am told these are categorical.

At the top is 18 USC Ch. 113B related to domestic terrorism. Currently people I am talking to tonight see the breaking and entering into, or climbing onto the U.S. Capitol as a violation of 18 USC 113 because it is a common charge for anyone who tries to breach the grounds of Federal buildings and cause trouble. To prove the charge you have to show 1. that the suspect was part of a group who entered into a federal facility 2. in the process intimidating or interfering with the operations of the government, 3. and during that entrance damage and or death occurred (by anyone). The charge is increased by being a conspiracy, meaning you spoke with someone else about this.

Leaving the other stuff behind, death occurred during this fiasco, so we could see hundreds of these idiots getting to know what a cell with an Al Qaeda member looks like.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

It is possible those guards were ordered to open the gates. Please allow me to say sorry for my analysis being purposefully vague and not including details that I and other will know here.

By 3pm the terrorists were scaling the back side of the building and brandishing weapons at police while yelling that they would take the capital.

Police at some exposed locations told the press to beat feet as the terrorists had savagely beaten a young high school girl who was reporting, mistaking her for a professional, and damaged equipment, and there was increasing cases where the armed terrorists were engaging each other accusing the different groups as being undercover agents. The Oath Keepers issued a general order to other terrorists about this time to disarm and detain police “illegally” preventing entry into the buildings and to escalate use of force against anyone who resisted their authority. In the chaos more than a dozen militia leaders individually declared on their own in social media or in the public that they were now in defacto control of the legislative branch of government. Others wanted to search for sex slaves, find loot, kill police, protect police, find a place to take a piss (a lot of them talked about shitting in this or that office - or the gold standard in one of the high desks, and indeed most of these places where shat in as we are found out. Pissing and shitting on things is sort of a Trump supporter calling card now days.)

There were not enough police on that barricade in this anarchy and chaos - even I can see that, and the terrorists were not making much sense, so it looks like they called an Alamo.

An Alamo, called by all sorts of things, is a defensive tactic of surrounding your principal protective position then slowly allowing a collapsing sack maneuver to prevent casualties and allow time to get your innocents out of the line of fire. The gate is step one. The terrorists have been told that if they pass, they are terrorists and subject to the law. If they stay in the open area then all they could be charged with is minor stuff.

One of the police officers - tentatively identified as an off duty detective, began to take a series of selfies with the most violent of the terrorists. Another officer opened the gates and used his radio for something. It is possible this man was taking advantage of the comic opera of new dictators declaring themselves the new congress to get pictures ofd each idiot. It is what I would have done.

The main issue at that moment was that the President was not just hors d’ combat, he was in the bunker and had cut off communication with the outside world. Evidence, which will have to be confirmed, is that he went from the bunker to the West Wing then ducked back into the Bunker. He repeatedly authorized deadly force if anyone approached the White House, but at the same time was laughing at the congress and telling everyone on the D-List that the congress would never be able to vote now and by tomorrow it would be too late. Trump it seems did not want to change the motion of things because he may have

The effect of this was that repeated attempts to get him to make a statement or authorize Federal resources to aid what is in essence a Federal enclave turned into nothing, so the Capitol police unit at the Capitol were given the Alamo code words.

The Alamo code word is what we saw when the building was breached and was handled professionally. Basically you set a group of balk lines to hold terrorists back who are not yet active and try to form lines. You also collapse your forces back like a sack. Unfortunately there is supposed to be a rapid response team which was guarding the White House, and another which was stood down by Trump officials from the National Guard. Trump would be besieged by his staff to make a statement or release forces, but wouldn’t until quite late, often saying that this was what he was looking for.

Interestingly enough the Trump family was jumping on planes and getting out of Dodge.

Having only enough force to hold a small area and still get the congress out, the Capital police seem to have designated the doors and windows of the actual congress rooms and two snaking, L shaped corridors as their must hold lines. I will not publish this map but I have made one and what they did was remarkable and had to have some planning behind it. Remember, the Senate and the Congress leadership and the Vice President are removed first while the main bodies are held in place to avoid overloading transportation. Next a second group led the 31 odd congress people on the continuity team, then 50 odd staffers on continuity out.

The remaining congress huddled under threat of death while a SMALL team made two strong points at hallway and entrance doors and kept control of two egress routes. Slowly the remaining congressmen were rescued, but at one point they had to defend the hallway to the north of the chambers with gunfire.

One of the weirdest thing was that the crowd interfered with medical treatment for the four people who died. No one is sure why.

 

[Argonath Diver]

6 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Are you saying that you are all creepy PMing each other without me? 

ETA: that would be a real Ted Cruz move (there, politics).

I just checked my Inbox - my 3rd most recent PM here was received 12 years ago. I suppose this is one of the benefits to being a relatively milquetoast, non-combative forum-goer across several communities.

Tough to keep up with all the crazy shit flying around the internets the last 36 hours. Has someone pointed this one out? I don't keep up with the significant others of Supreme Court justices, nor do I care to. This seems, well, not the best of moves for her, though.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Facebook suspended Trumps accounts until after the inauguration. I'm still cancelling my account, Mark.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

@Argonath Diver Ginni Thomas has even off my radar for a while, but she's been a bit wing nut fringe for a while. This wold not surprise me. 

[DMC]

50 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

I don't keep up with the significant others of Supreme Court justices, nor do I care to. This seems, well, not the best of moves for her, though.

 

If you had you'd know Ginny Thomas has been an influential member of the batshit wing of the GOP for pretty much her entire adult life.  Her endorsement/support here is entirely consistent.  There's little chance she'll be apologetic about this - she never has before.

[Relic]

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

@The Anti-Targ

I didn’t get a chance to respond to you in the last thread.
Again nice ideas. Not even against pursuing them.

I Just recognize constantly referencing those nice things won’t defeat fascism.

Here’s the thing; people have tried humoring the far right. To show them leniency. Hitler despite his coup attempt served 9 months. He wasn’t reformed. It would have been good if he was at least cowed. But he wasn’t. He along with other nazis were allowed to re-enter society with no hard consequence. They didn’t learn anything. And when the nazis got in power they did not give an iota of mercy to those who showed them such when they weren’t in power.

You can cry about their hypocrisy and they will not care.

Reagan wasn’t impeached for selling weapons to terrorists. That did not make Republicans more reluctant to impeach Clinton over lying about having a BJ.

Biden and Obama acted very civilly to Trump and pence during their transition.

Trump did return this basic courtesy once in power. 

The most flagrant rioters should have their zeal be broken and reformed in Prison for hopefully ten years.

[Xray the Enforcer]

You're on a roll @Fury Resurrected

[The Anti-Targ]

10 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

@The Anti-Targ

I didn’t get a chance to respond to you in the last thread.
Again nice ideas. Not even against pursuing them.

I Just recognize constantly referencing those nice things won’t defeat fascism.

Here’s the thing; people have tried humoring the far right. To show them leniency. Hitler despite his coup attempt served 9 months. He wasn’t reformed. It would have been good if he was at least cowed. But he wasn’t. He along with other nazis were allowed to re-enter society with no hard consequence. They didn’t learn anything. And when the nazis got in power they did not give an iota of mercy to those who showed them such when they weren’t in power.

You can cry about their hypocrisy and they will not care.

Reagan wasn’t impeached for selling weapons to terrorists. That did not make Republicans more reluctant to impeach Clinton over lying about having a BJ.

Biden and Obama acted very civilly to Trump and pence during their transition.

Trump did return this basic courtesy once in power. 

The most flagrant rioters should have their zeal be broken and reformed in Prison for hopefully ten years.

Hmmm, there were so many posts I don't recall exactly which one, but I'm guessing the one about the things fascists don't care about?

The way you defeat fascism is to treat ordinary people with justice so that there is no fertile ground for it to grow in, you don't defeat it by throwing a bunch of thugs in jail for X number of years and imagining that will solve anything. Fascism arises because the masses are victims of an unjust system and the fascists show them who is to blame (which is always not remotely close to who is really to blame). People seem to think justice is punishing the angry mob, but it isn't because it hasn't dealt with the cause of the anger. Albeit not letting people get away with criminal behavior is important, it doesn't fix anything. Similarly getting rid of Trump, even impeaching and removing him tomorrow, does not deal with the reason Trump got to be president in the first place.

If you don't fix social and economic injustice, you might make fascism go away for a while, but it will only come back. My prediction, Biden-Harris won't fix much or anything, and we'll be back in 4 or 8 years with a trump figure, only this time they might actually be a bit smart, and thus even worse.

In 2008 I said Obama would not achieve the hope and change he talked about so much, he didn't partly because he couldn't as the system is resistant, but also partly because his politics was wrong in too many ways. Biden-Harris will be more of the same, or perhaps less of it. The collapse of this political order is coming, and this isn't limited to the USA. The world's political machinery is incapable of delivering the justice people so desperately seek. Until it is torn down and built anew on the unshakeable foundation of social and economic justice for all (the world) we are only going to see the last 4 years and the last 48hrs repeat, only with different players, and in a lot more countries, and perhaps with greater frequency.

Yet hope remains, while the company is true. The quest for a just society does not stand upon the edge of a knife, and no matter how much we stray it will not fail to the ruin of us all. But sadly there is a lot of straying going on, which is leading and will lead to the ruin of many.

I was reading an article about galactic civilisations, odd segue, but stay with me, The article was speculating that there were probably civilisations existing in the galaxy millions and billions of years ago, and the reason we don't see any is because, they speculate, all advanced civilisations eventually self-annihilate. Clearly the thinkers thinking these things believe that's where we're going, and probably in a geologically short time. This is hopelessly and horribly fatalistic, and I am not buying it. As bad as things will get, it's going to get better.

[Gorn]

5 hours ago, ants said:

Haven't gone through the last thead, mostly happened overnight/during work here.  Did anyone post this, and any idea if its at all accurate?  Some seems to read as giving a pass to the cops, but some reads pretty bad for Trump/Trump fans.  Could all be rubbish. 

https://www.quora.com/Many-Donald-Trump-supporters-who-stormed-the-Capitol-today-took-selfies-and-allowed-others-to-post-photos-of-them-Since-this-could-prove-an-easy-way-to-identify-them-what-is-the-possibility-of-seeing-some-arrested

 

To be fair to the rank-and-file police that we present on the ground, they did successfully protect the safety of all Senators and Congresspeople, they did use deadly force when that safety appeared to be in danger, and one of them died in the line of duty. I also remember thinking at the time (without knowing that this is an actual named security tactic), that the smartest thing to do once the outside line broke was to non-lethally de-escalate and delay until the evacuation is finished and reinforcements arrived.

None of this excuses the failures of the higher ranks.