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Urrathon Night Walker


Bloodraven’s Spider

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ACOK Dany V:

“Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. But now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years.”

 

This Urrathon Night Walker has always made me wonder. Who and or what is this man/place of significance? It is the only time in ASOIAF and other text in WOIAF we hear of Urrathon Night Walker (and directly related to glass candles).

Xaro mentions the glass candles haven’t burnt in a hundred years, what happened a hundred years ago to make them burn? 

“Glass Candles” are only mentioned a handful a times throughout the entire series:

-twice in Dany (ACOK/ADWD)

-AFFC Prologue 5 times

-AFFC Sam IV/V 4 times (Citadel connection)

 

In The World of Ice and Fire, GRRM purposely left Qarth out, there is no mention of glass candles either (It could have been very easy to slip some detail in the world book...)Nor is there any mention of them in  Dunk & Egg (about hundred years before our current story... What during this time would make class candles burn in qarth? There were no dragons...). No mention of glass candles or urrathon night walker in Rogue Prince and Princess and the Queen.

 

The only other mention of “Urrathon”, The world of Ice and Fire: The Iron Islands- Driftwood Crowns

 

“Upon the death of King Urragon III Greyiron (Urragon the Bald), his younger sons hurriedly convened a kingsmoot whilst their elder brother Torgon was raiding up the Mander, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. To their dismay, the captains and kings chose Urrathon Goodbrother of Great Wyk instead. The first thing the new king did was command that the sons of the old king be put to death. For that, and for the savage cruelty he oft displayed during his two years as king, Urrathon IV Goodbrother is remembered in history as Badbrother.

When Torgon Greyiron returned at last to the Iron Islands, he declared the kingsmoot to be invalid because he had not been present to make a claim. The priests supported him in this, for they had grown weary of Badbrother's arrogance and impiety. Smallfolk and great lords alike arose at their call, rallying to Torgon's banners, until Urrathon's own captains hacked Urrathon into pieces. Torgon the Latecomer became king in his stead, and ruled for forty years without ever having been chosen and proclaimed at a kingsmoot. 

 

This like the Quiet Isle doesnt get enough attention. Any thoughts?

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On 1/10/2021 at 9:29 PM, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

ACOK Dany V:

“Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. But now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years.”

 

This Urrathon Night Walker has always made me wonder. Who and or what is this man/place of significance? It is the only time in ASOIAF and other text in WOIAF we hear of Urrathon Night Walker (and directly related to glass candles).

Xaro mentions the glass candles haven’t burnt in a hundred years, what happened a hundred years ago to make them burn? 

“Glass Candles” are only mentioned a handful a times throughout the entire series:

-twice in Dany (ACOK/ADWD)

-AFFC Prologue 5 times

-AFFC Sam IV/V 4 times (Citadel connection)

 

In The World of Ice and Fire, GRRM purposely left Qarth out, there is no mention of glass candles either (It could have been very easy to slip some detail in the world book...)Nor is there any mention of them in  Dunk & Egg (about hundred years before our current story... What during this time would make class candles burn in qarth? There were no dragons...). No mention of glass candles or urrathon night walker in Rogue Prince and Princess and the Queen.

 

The only other mention of “Urrathon”, The world of Ice and Fire: The Iron Islands- Driftwood Crowns

 

“Upon the death of King Urragon III Greyiron (Urragon the Bald), his younger sons hurriedly convened a kingsmoot whilst their elder brother Torgon was raiding up the Mander, thinking that one of them would be chosen to wear the driftwood crown. To their dismay, the captains and kings chose Urrathon Goodbrother of Great Wyk instead. The first thing the new king did was command that the sons of the old king be put to death. For that, and for the savage cruelty he oft displayed during his two years as king, Urrathon IV Goodbrother is remembered in history as Badbrother.

When Torgon Greyiron returned at last to the Iron Islands, he declared the kingsmoot to be invalid because he had not been present to make a claim. The priests supported him in this, for they had grown weary of Badbrother's arrogance and impiety. Smallfolk and great lords alike arose at their call, rallying to Torgon's banners, until Urrathon's own captains hacked Urrathon into pieces. Torgon the Latecomer became king in his stead, and ruled for forty years without ever having been chosen and proclaimed at a kingsmoot. 

 

This like the Quiet Isle doesnt get enough attention. Any thoughts?

@Bloodraven's Spider, sorry, @Bloodraven's Spider, damn there's someone else with same name different account, anyway, I thought it was a known fact that... 

It's Euron Grey joy 

Ironborn connections 

Known to sail everywhere 

Keeps false identities 

Lusts after dragons so has dragonglass candles 

More here... 

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1 hour ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

In The World of Ice and Fire, GRRM purposely left Qarth out, there is no mention of glass candles either (It could have been very easy to slip some detail in the world book...)Nor is there any mention of them in  Dunk & Egg (about hundred years before our current story... What during this time would make class candles burn in qarth? There were no dragons...). No mention of glass candles or urrathon night walker in Rogue Prince and Princess and the Queen.

What Xaro said is that this Urrathon Night Walker's glass candles are burning, tho they did not burn a single time in the last 100 years. 

There is nothing about anyone else's glass candles. I suppose glass candles aren't that widely known things at all. 

Then, the quote given determines the fate of only this person's glasscandles, in their latest 100 years. 

I am pretty sure this wasn't the first case in a 100 years for every glasscandle.

And when it comes to glasscandles, I always rely on what Quathie (who likely owes a few) said to Daenerys: Not to trust Archmaester Marwyn, who also has at least one. 

Who this guy could be? I don't know. Seems like Urrathon was a name used several times between the ironborn. This makes me wonder if this guy is also somehow connected to what is about to come.

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1 hour ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Any thoughts?

I think that Urrathon Night Walker is one of Euron Greyjoy's aliases.

In my opinion, Euron is a parallel to Urrathon Badbrother, and Theon is a parallel to Torgon Greyiron, who was Urrathon's nephew, same as Theon is Euron's nephew.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Urrathon_IV_Goodbrother

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Torgon_Greyiron

Those two had the same unlawful kingsmoot situation as Euron and Theon.

Also I think that both shadowbinder Quaithe and the Three-Eyed Crow is Shiera Seastar, and that Euron's other alias is the Crow's Eye because he is the third eye of the Three-Eyed Crow. Him and Shiera are binded by magic bond based on blood magic. She can see thru his dark eye, the one he keeps covered. I think he betrayed her and now he has to cover that eye to keep his ex-teacher from spying on him.

When Dany was in Qarth, soon after her 15th birthday (May of 299), she was approached by the Captain of the Cinnamon Wind, who brought her news about King Robert's death.  She asked him - " "When does your ship return to Westeros, Captain?" "Not for a year or more, I fear. From here the Cinnamon Wind sails east, to make the trader's circle round the Jade Sea." " Though they didn't sailed east, because months later the ship was at Braavos, where one of her crew met Sam, and offered him, Gilly and maester Aemon a passage to Oldtown. So I think that the Cinnamon Wind was supposed to sail to the Jade Sea, specifically to Asshai, to fetch from there Quaithe. Though Quaithe's glass candle ignited when Dany in AGOT had a dream about Drogon, after that dream his egg became warm, and Dany's physical condition also began changing. So the fire-magic returned to the world even before Dany's dragons actually hatched. Quaithe was able to use glass candle even before the appearance of the Bleeding Star. She used glass candle to get to Dany in AGOT, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego. This is Quaithe/Shiera Seastar: "Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade." - faded raiment of kings is red&black - traditional colors of Targaryen court, Quaithe's black cape and red mask. Swords of pale fire is actually a glass candle. Opal is stone with mixed green-blue coloration. There are blue and green, and blue-green bi-colored tournalines and jades. Amethysts have a secondary hue, it's either red or blue. Shiera Seastar has mismatched blue green eyes, like the color of those four stones.

So the Cinnamon Wind took Quaithe on board and they sailed to Braavos, where on her order they offered assistance to Sam and maester Aemon, who is Quaithe's grand-nephew.

Euron/Urrathon also has a glass candle, and thus he knew where his ex-teacher is going. So he sent his ships to catch her. In Sam's last chapter in AFFC crows were mentioned/appeared three times:

Spoiler

"Thrice longships were sighted by the (1) crow’s nest...

The ironmen had penetrated even to the sheltered waters of Whispering Sound. Come morning, as the Cinnamon Wind continued on toward Oldtown, she began to bump up against corpses drifting down to the sea. Some of the bodies carried complements of (2) crows, who rose into the air complaining noisily when the swan ship disturbed their grotesquely swollen rafts. Scorched fields and burned villages appeared on the banks, and the shallows and sandbars were strewn with shattered ships. Merchanters and fishing boats were the most common, but they saw abandoned longships too, and the wreckage of two big dromonds. One had been burned down to the waterline, whilst the other had a gaping splintered hole in her side where her hull had been rammed.

“Battle here,” said Xhondo. “Not so long.”

“Who would be so mad as to raid this close to Oldtown?”

Xhondo pointed at a half-sunken longship in the shallows. The remnants of a banner drooped from her stern, smoke-stained and ragged. The charge was one Sam had never seen before: a red eye with a black pupil, beneath a black iron crown supported by two (3) crows. “Whose banner is that?” Sam asked. Xhondo only shrugged." 

That was Euron's banner - black iron crown supported by two crows. Euron is the one who is mad enough to raid so close to Oldtown.

I think that when the Cinnamon Wind was stopped by the ship of Hightowers, shortly prior their arrival to Oldtown, Shiera switched ships and continued her voyage on board of the Huntress, and she sailed north to The Wall.

There's a Crow's Nest castle in 7K, owned by House Morrigen. It's a hint towards Morrigan, phantom queen and Crow goddess. It's a parallel to Shiera, who is a shadowbinder and the Three-Eyed Crow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badb

That deity is also associated with the banshee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee

From Old Irish it translates as "woman of the fairy mound". Those mounds are graves, also called long barrows.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumulus

When the wildling witch Morna arrived to Castle Black, Jon sent her to the Long Barrow.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Long_Barrow#A_Dance_with_Dragons

Mor in Morna translates from Old Irish or Welsh or Breton as "the sea", same as Morrigan and Morgan le Fay, and the Sea part in Shiera's name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_le_Fay#Etymology_and_origins

Morna is wearing a wooden mask, same as Quaithe. And she kissed Jon's hand. In ADWD Jon was also kissed by the moon, ADWD Jon VI - "You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall." In his dream the moon chased Jon, ADWD Jon I: " "Snow," the moon insisted. The white wolf ran from it, racing toward the cave of night where the sun had hidden". - In that dream the moon is Shiera, and the sun is Bloodraven, the cave of night is the Children's Cave. In Dothraki legends the Sun is a husband, and the Moon is his wife. They are also parallels to the Lion of the Night and his wife the Maiden-made-of-Light.

It's likely that Morna is one of Shiera's apprentices, same as Euron, maester Marwyn, Mirri Maz Duur, and Malora Hightower.

There's a hint in the books that Shiera previously visited the land of Wildlings, ASOS Jon I:

Spoiler

" “The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch,” said the King-beyond-the-Wall. “One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadowcat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?” He chuckled. “It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me.” He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. “But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears… and most of all, no red. The men of the Night’s Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said.

“I left the next morning… for a place where a kiss was not a crime, and a man could wear any cloak he chose.”"

Shiera is a cat-skinchanger, same as her mother Serenei/Larra Rogare. The grandmother to whom belonged that silk was actually Johanna Swann, Larra Rogare's mother. Shiera possessed a shadowcat, and made it to attack Mance. Then she used shadow-glamour and pretended that she's one of the wildlings. While she was treating Mance from his wounds, she was using magic on him, and because of that influence he deserted from Night's Watch, and unknowingly to him went to do Shiera's binding, by uniting all Wildlings into a single tribe, for Jon later to lead them as his army against the Others. Jon is the Promised Prince and Shiera orchestrated events beyong The Wall in his favour.

Because of Shiera Euron knows all about the prophecy and he is trying to use that knowledge to become the King of 7K.

This is from TWOW, The Forsaken:

"When he laughed his face sloughed off and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him.

The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits.” Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.”

“Never. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair!”

Why would I want that hard black rock? Brother, look again and see where I am seated.

Aeron Damphair looked. The mound of skulls was gone. Now it was metal underneath the Crow’s Eye: a great, tall, twisted seat of razor sharp iron, barbs and blades and broken swords, all dripping blood."

"The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire."

<- That's Shiera's "shadow" with a glass candle in her hands, she's spying after Euron.

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22 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years

I think that you are misinterpreting what is written there. For some reason some readers don't understand what GRRM wrote, like in that case with Rhaegar's departure from Dragonstone -

Spoiler

"As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon’s turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides."

GRRM meant that Rhaegar went away from Dragonstone in early 283, and then months later kidnapped Lyanna. Though many readers, what was written by GRRM, interpreted as if though Rhaegar both departed from Dragonstone and kidnapped Lyanna shortly afterwards, and all that happened in early 283, thus they also had a wrong understanding of the entire timeline of Robert's Rebellion.

 

What is written in the quote above means that the glass candles IN GENERAL have not burned in a hundred years.

For the past 100+ years they have not burned all over the world, not only in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker.

100 years ago, 50 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago that house in Qarth either didn't even existed, or the building itself was there, but it wasn't at that time called the House of Urrathon Nightwalker. Because Urrathon has only recently became a tenant of Qarth, maybe he bought (or build) that house only a year ago, or 3 years ago, or 5 or 10. And before Urrathon bought/build that house, that house didn't had glass candles in it. He brought glass candles there, when he bought/build that house.

The glass candles in general, all over the world, have not burned in a hundred years, because for a hundred years there was no living dragons in the world.

The last dragon died in 153 AC, and that was 146 years ago. 299 - 153 = 146. That phrase, about glass candles in Urrathon's house, was said in first half on 299, several months after Rhaego's birth/dragons' hatching/the appearance of the Bleeding Star. And the year 299 is a hundred+ (146) years distant from the time when there were living dragons in the world, dragons whose life-force served a role of a "spiritual fuel" for glass candles. No dragons = glass candles don't burn.

The dragons returned, and the glass candles (all over the world) reignited. In the Citadel, in Urrathon's house in Qarth, in Quaithe's residence, etc.

Now, when exactly did the "dragon magic" returned? Was it when Dany's dragons hatched in Drogo's funeral pyre? NO! It was even BEFORE that.

It happened since THIS moment (AGOT, Dany III):

"Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night…

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

And the next day, strangely, she did not seem to hurt quite so much. It was as if the gods had heard her and taken pity. Even her handmaids noticed the change. “Khaleesi,” Jhiqui said, “what is wrong? Are you sick?”

“I was,” she answered, standing over the dragon’s eggs that Illyrio had given her when she wed. She touched one, the largest of the three, running her hand lightly over the shell. Black-and-scarlet, she thought, like the dragon in my dream. The stone felt strangely warm beneath her fingers…or was she still dreaming? She pulled her hand back nervously.

From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather."

 

Dany was changed by a dragon magic. Thru her dream she formed a spiritual bond with Drogon's embryo. When Dany had that dream, the dragon magic has returned into the world, the embryo inside the egg started growing, the egg became warm, Dany's body started changing, she became stronger.

Same/similar thing happened with Aenys I Targaryen - At birth, Aenys was small, with spindly limbs and small, watery eyes. He was weak and sickly for the first few years of his life, and slow to grow, but once he was given the hatchling Quicksilver, Aenys began to thrive.[3][6]

Even though the dragons hatched only after Rhaego's birth, the dragon magic returned into the world 9+ months prior Rhaego's birth, shortly after Dany's wedding with Khal Drogo, in second half of 297, when she had that dream about Drogon and formed a bond with him.

That's why maester Marwyn and Shiera Seastar/Quaithe were able to use glass candles to "visit" Dany when she was giving birth to Rhaego. They both were assisting her with the childbirth. This is Marwyn, it's not Jorah, it's Marwyn, whos projection/spirit "teleported" into Drogo's tent, unseen by people who doesn't have a dragon-magic in them, Dany does, that's why she saw (AGOT, Dany IX):

"Ser Jorah’s face was drawn and sorrowful. “Rhaegar was the last dragon,” he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. “The last dragon,” he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone."

He wasn't just warming his hands, he placed his hands above fire/eggs and used their power like a battery, to recharge himself for a return trip/teleportation to the Citadel, where his body at that time was using a glass candle.

It was Marwyn's "apparition", it was transparrent / translucent, because he wasn't physically there, only his spirit/shadow "teleported" there by using a glass candle. Same as Quaithe did here (ADWD, Dany II):

Spoiler

"She closed her eyes and floated.

A soft rustle made her open them again. She sat up with a soft splash. “Missandei?” she called. “Irri? Jhiqui?”

“They sleep,” came the answer.

A woman stood under the persimmon tree, clad in a hooded robe that brushed the grass. Beneath the hood, her face seemed hard and shiny. She is wearing a mask, Dany knew, a wooden mask finished in dark red lacquer. “Quaithe? Am I dreaming?” She pinched her ear and winced at the pain. “I dreamt of you on Balerion, when first we came to Astapor.”

“You did not dream. Then or now.”

“What are you doing here? How did you get past my guards?

I came another way. Your guards never saw me.

If I call out, they will kill you.

They will swear to you that I am not here.

Are you here?

No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”

“Reznak? Why should I fear him?” Dany rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs, and gooseflesh covered her arms in the cool night air. “If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?”

Moonlight shone in the woman’s eyes. “To show you the way.”

“I remember the way. I go north to go south, east to go west, back to go forward. And to touch the light I have to pass beneath the shadow.” She squeezed the water from her silvery hair. “I am half-sick of riddling. In Qarth I was a beggar, but here I am a queen. I command you—”

Daenerys. Remember the Undying. Remember who you are.”

“The blood of the dragon.” But my dragons are roaring in the darkness. “I remember the Undying. Child of three, they called me. Three mounts they promised me, three fires, and three treasons. One for blood and one for gold and one for …”

“Your Grace?” Missandei stood in the door of the queen’s bedchamber, a lantern in her hand. “Who are you talking to?”

Dany glanced back toward the persimmon tree. There was no woman there. No hooded robe, no lacquer mask, no Quaithe.

A shadow. A memory. No one. She was the blood of the dragon, but Ser Barristan had warned her that in that blood there was a taint. Could I be going mad? They had called her father mad, once. “I was praying,” she told the Naathi girl. “It will be light soon. I had best eat something, before court.”

“I will bring you food to break your fast.”

Alone again, Dany went all the way around the pyramid in hopes of finding Quaithe, past the burned trees and scorched earth where her men had tried to capture Drogon. But the only sound was the wind in the fruit trees, and the only creatures in the gardens were a few pale moths."

" "How did you get past my guards?”

“I came another way. Your guards never saw me.”

“If I call out, they will kill you.”

“They will swear to you that I am not here.”

Are you here?”

“No. ..."

....

"Dany glanced back toward the persimmon tree. There was no woman there. No hooded robe, no lacquer mask, no Quaithe.

A shadow. A memory. No one."

 

That's why Jorah saw no one, only shadows, with Mirri Maz Duur, when she was performing that ritual to save Drogo, but Dany saw something, (AGOT, Dany VIII and IX):

"No, Dany wanted to say, no, not that, you mustn’t, but when she opened her mouth, a long wail of pain escaped, and the sweat broke over her skin. What was wrong with them, couldn’t they see? Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames."

 

“My son was alive and strong when Ser Jorah carried me into this tent,” she said. “I could feel him kicking, fighting to be born.”

“That may be as it may be,” answered Mirri Maz Duur, “yet the creature that came forth from your womb was as I said. Death was in that tent, Khaleesi.”

Only shadows,” Ser Jorah husked, but Dany could hear the doubt in his voice. “I saw, maegi. I saw you, alone, dancing with the shadows. “ "

 

Maester Marwyn and Quaithe-Shiera "teleported" into Drogo's tent, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, that is evidence that glass candles were reignited even before the dragons hatched. This is Quaithe with glass candle in her hands, a burning glass candle: "Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire... the ghosts cried as one"

 

The Ghosts cried as one, because it was ONE PERSON - Quaithe, with a glass candle in her hands, an ignited glass candle. The candles got ignited even before the dragons hatched, they were ignited after Dany had that dream in AGOT, Dany III, in second half of 297 AC.

The phrase about glass candles burning in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker was said in first half of 299, and Dany had that dragon-dream in second half of 297. Thus the glass candles were reignited sometime between second half of 297 and first half of 299. Either it happened immediately after Dany's dream, when Drogon's egg became warm, or it happened gradualy, in case if the dragon magic also was returning into the world gradually, becoming stronger with the passage of time, same as Dany was becoming a bit stronger every day after that dream.

So the glass candles were not burning all over the world for a hundred (~144-146) years, since 153 AC, when the last dragon died, and until they were reignited recently, in 297-299 AC, also all over the world, including in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker. And they got reignited because their "fuel"/the dragon magic has returned.

14 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

But any clue as to what she the candles to burn a hundred years ago?

The glass candles stopped burning when all dragons died, and they started burning again when the dragons/dragon-magic returned.

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3 hours ago, Megorova said:

So the glass candles were not burning all over the world for a hundred (~144-146) years, since 153 AC, when the last dragon died, and until they were reignited recently, in 297-299 AC, also all over the world, including in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker. And they got reignited because their "fuel"/the dragon magic has returned.

You're telling us that igniting a glasscandle is impossible when dragonmagic isn't present at any form in the world, but you forget that on the final test at the Citadel, to become a maester, you have to spend a night in a fully dark room, empty, with nothing but a glass candle. Near noone can light it. But Archmaester Marwyn succeeded on doing it, that's why he received one. And any student that is able to light it gets one. Archmaester Marwyn is pretty old at this point, he is a maester for several years now. How did he light then his candle? 

You seem to forget this piece. That people were able to do it even before dragonmagic came back. And you also forget that Urrathon Night Walker's candles only began to burn when Daenerys burned down the HotU.

You might be wrong at this part.

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2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

on the final test at the Citadel, to become a maester, you have to spend a night in a fully dark room, empty, with nothing but a glass candle. Near noone can light it. But Archmaester Marwyn succeeded on doing it, that's why he received one. And any student that is able to light it gets one. Archmaester Marwyn is pretty old at this point, he is a maester for several years now. How did he light then his candle? 

It's ridiculous how some readers manage to misinterpret even a basic simple things.

Quote

“The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper . . . only a candle of obsidian. He must spend the night in darkness, unless he can light that candle. Some will try. The foolish and the stubborn, those who have made a study of these so-called higher mysteries. Often they cut their fingers, for the ridges on the candles are said to be as sharp as razors. Then, with bloody hands, they must wait upon the dawn, brooding on their failure. Wiser men simply go to sleep, or spend their night in prayer, but every year there are always a few who must try.”

“Yes.” Pate had heard the same stories. “But what’s the use of a candle that casts no light?”

“It is a lesson,” Armen said, “the last lesson we must learn before we don our maester’s chains. The glass candle is meant to represent truth and learning, rare and beautiful and fragile things. It is made in the shape of a candle to remind us that a maester must cast light wherever he serves, and it is sharp to remind us that knowledge can be dangerous. Wise men may grow arrogant in their wisdom, but a maester must always remain humble. The glass candle reminds us of that as well. Even after he has said his vow and donned his chain and gone forth to serve, a maester will think back on the darkness of his vigil and remember how nothing that he did could make the candle burn . . . for even with knowledge, some things are not possible.”

What that guy said, that text in the quote, it's about their tradition at the Citadel, it's the ritual that is usually done by an acolyte prior he will say his vows. When years ago Marwyn was an acolyte, he also went thru this ritual, and same as everyone else for years before and after him, he failed to lit the candle. Because (until recently) it was impossible. Because without dragon-magic glass candles don't work.

That was THEN, and this is NOW:

"Lazy Leo burst out laughing. “Not possible for you, you mean. I saw the candle burning with my own eyes." "

Leo saw an ignited glass candle recently, and it started burning also recently.

You completely misunderstood what was happening in the book. The glass candle that Marwyn has, is not his private property, also he isn't the one who ignited it. All glass candles reignited by themselves, after the dragon-magic returned into the world, after Dany's dragon-dream. The glass candle that Marwyn has, wasn't ignited by him many years ago during his vigil, it got ignited on its own not long time ago.

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

And you also forget that Urrathon Night Walker's candles only began to burn when Daenerys burned down the HotU.

No, that's where you're wrong again.

Quaithe and Dany met second time in ACOK, Dany III. Quaithe mentioned glass candles:

Quote

“Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass. He had some small skill with powders and wildfire, sufficient to entrance a crowd while his cutpurses did their work. He could walk across hot coals and make burning roses bloom in the air, but he could no more aspire to climb the fiery ladder than a common fisherman could hope to catch a kraken in his nets.”

Dany looked uneasily at where the ladder had stood. Even the smoke was gone now, and the crowd was breaking up, each man going about his business. In a moment more than a few would find their purses flat and empty. “And now?”

“And now his powers grow, Khaleesi. And you are the cause of it.”

“Me?” She laughed. “How could that be?”

The woman stepped closer and lay two fingers on Dany’s wrist. “You are the Mother of Dragons, are you not?”

Dragonglass IS Valyrian glass, it's the same thing. Dragonglass, obsidian, volcanic glass. It's the material from which glass candles are made.

To "wake fire from dragonglass" means to ignite/use a glass candle.

Dany burned the House of the Undying in Chapter IV, and that conversation with Quaithe happened one chapter before the burning of HotU, in Chapter III. So no, the candles burned even before Dany fried the Undying.

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20 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Dany burned the House of the Undying in Chapter IV, and that conversation with Quaithe happened one chapter before the burning of HotU, in Chapter III. So no, the candles burned even before Dany fried the Undying.

First of all, nope. I've just checked, and Urrathon NW was mentioned in DaenerysV, while she was in the HotU in DaenerysIV. It is also what the Wiki says. And Xaro said this to Daenerys among those other warnings for what she had done in the HotU. Still, we can't know what he meant by saying that.

 

24 minutes ago, Megorova said:

When years ago Marwyn was an acolyte, he also went thru this ritual, and same as everyone else for years before and after him, he failed to lit the candle

I did not say that the candles are his own property. They are given to him to use. Why would the Citadel give it to someone who can't use it? And if he can't use it, and the candles ignite themselves, then how would he get any more permission for using them than anyone else in the Citadel? How?

 

30 minutes ago, Megorova said:

What that guy said, that text in the quote, it's about their tradition at the Citadel, it's the ritual that is usually done by an acolyte prior he will say his vows

It became a tradition because nearly noone was able to lit them. But the candle is originally placed there for igniting it.

 

33 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Leo saw an ignited glass candle recently, and it started burning also recently.

Leo mentions this months after Xaro talked about the Qartheen glasscandles.

 

34 minutes ago, Megorova said:

All glass candles reignited by themselves, after the dragon-magic returned into the world, after Dany's dragon-dream.

Any actual proof for that?

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@Megorova are you sure it's magic the thing that's returning to the world because dragons came back and not the dragons that came back because magic is returning to the world?

Ice magic is also growing stronger, apparently without something to trigger it, and 'every song must have it's balance'. Would the world be without balance if Dany would have let Viserys take the eggs?

 

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15 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

are you sure it's magic the thing that's returning to the world because dragons came back and not the dragons that came back because magic is returning to the world?

Ice magic is also growing stronger, apparently without something to trigger it, and 'every song must have it's balance'.

In Essos Azor Ahai killed all the Others with his Lightbringer, but in Westeros the Children and the Last Hero (a Stark) just pushed them back into far North and they build The Wall to keep them there. The Others lived/existed beyond The Wall all this time, for thousands of years since the First Long Night ended. Dragons hatched in Valyria shortly after FLN ended. I think that Azor Ahai and his people migrated from Asshai thru Valyria to Dorne, where they build Starfall. Dawn of Daynes is AA's Ligtbringer, and Valyrians are AA's children/descendants. The dragon reappered in the world as an aswear against the Others. Dragons existed on Planetos even millions or thousands years ago, though by the time of FLN they became extinct. I think that AA had prophetic fire-vision and thru them he found out that in the future there will be another Long Night, and that his sucessor, the Promised Prince, will finally defeat all the Others all over the world by using dragons, and Lightbringer. Also in a vision he saw what he has to do to forge Lightbringer (to sacrifice Nissa Nissa), and later how to hatch dragons (in Valyria), and that he has to build Starfall, at the place where crashed meteorite from which he forged Lightbringer.

So both Ice magic and Fire magic existed on Planetos in various forms for thousands of years, since the First Long Night. When the dragons became extinct, after the Dance of the Dragons war, fire magic became substantially weaker. For example, glass candles stopped working. Though the fire magic existed even before dragons were hatched at Valyria. Azor Ahai was something like R'hllor's priest. He forged Lightbringer in a temple, in sacred flames. The fire is sacred in R'hllor's religion, and AA was forging Ligtbringer for 6 months. To be able to spend so much time at the temple, and all that time to have access to their sacred fire, he had to be one of them, a priest of R'hllor. Isn't it logical?

AA's abbilities and him forging Ligtbringer is an evidence that fire magic existed even when there was no dragons. Furthermore, the prophecy about the Promised Prince and the Second Long Night was given at Asshai 5.000 years ago shortly prior the dragons hatched at Valyria.

So, in my opinion, the fire magic existed always, even before dragons. Though, when there's dragons, the fire magic is stronger.

15 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

are you sure it's magic the thing that's returning to the world because dragons came back and not the dragons that came back because magic is returning to the world?

The magic in general isn't returning to the world, it was always there, it never went anywhere. What is returning is specifically dragon-magic, a brand of fire-magic. Besides dragon-magic, there always were other forms of fire-magic. For example, dragonseeds had prophetic abbilities even when there was no dragons. Egg's brother Daeron had dragon-dreams even after dragons became extinct. Same with Daemon II Blackfyre. So the dragon-dreams are not exactly "dragon-based", more like they are "fire-based". There was no dragons in the world, but people with dragon-blood still were able to see prophetic visions/dreams. This is an evidence that "dragon-dreaming" is based on fire magic not on dragon-magic, and also that fire magic always remained in the world even when there was no dragons. Though with return of the dragons the fire-magic became stronger. Reapperance of dragon-magic reignited glass candles, etc.

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18 hours ago, Megorova said:

All glass candles reignited by themselves, after the dragon-magic returned into the world, after Dany's dragon-dream.

The last dragon died 153 under the rule of Aegon the Dragonbane, so in 153 all the glasscandles stopped working. This means the maesters had roughly 150 years to forget that in their final ritual the candles always burned, and think of a aphorism instead. A society dedicated to wisdom, this does sound like a flaw in your theory.
 

Quote

To "wake fire from dragonglass" means to ignite/use a glass candle.

So, what now, do they ignite themselves or do they have to be ignited?

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14 minutes ago, TheSamsa said:

this does sound like a flaw in your theory.

I personally attacked his theory before with actual facts and logic, and he didn't even care to respond, instead wrote another comment here that even confutes itself and ASOIAF history at several points.

 

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2 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I personally attacked his theory before with actual facts and logic, and he didn't even care to respond, instead wrote another comment here that even confutes itself and ASOIAF history at several points.

 

Might be, but do you know the saying:
"If one guy tells you you have a tail ignore him. If one hundred guys tell you you have a tail, look behind you."
:D

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3 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I personally attacked his theory before with actual facts and logic, and he didn't even care to respond, instead wrote another comment here that even confutes itself and ASOIAF history at several points.

 

I ignored your post because you don't read/understand what I wrote earlier. So, what's the point of me wasting my time on answering to you, if you won't understand it, same as you haven't understood it before?

You just don't undestand what you're reading.

1. Previously you didn't comprehended what was the point of the ritual, that Lazy Leo described to Sam, that the point of that nightly vigil with a glass candle is to make an acolyte to realise that some things are impossible, same as it's impossible to ignite a glass candle.

Though now, after the dragon-magic has returned, that ritual is pointless, it lost its sense because now it's not impossible to lit a glass candle. So now that tradition became useless, even though majority at the Citadel are still unaware of it (that the glass candles are working again).

2.

22 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:
23 hours ago, Megorova said:

Dany burned the House of the Undying in Chapter IV, and that conversation with Quaithe happened one chapter before the burning of HotU, in Chapter III. So no, the candles burned even before Dany fried the Undying.

First of all, nope. I've just checked, and Urrathon NW was mentioned in DaenerysV, while she was in the HotU in DaenerysIV. It is also what the Wiki says. And Xaro said this to Daenerys among those other warnings for what she had done in the HotU. Still, we can't know what he meant by saying that.

And AGAIN you just don't read. Actually READ what I wrote.

I wrote there, in the quote above - "that conversation with Quaithe". What conversation with Quaithe? -> The one that I quoted, where Quaithe said "Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass." Dragonglass/obsidian is the material from which glass candles are made. So what is the meaning of a phrase "wake fire from dragonglass"? What other meaning could it have, besides igniting a glass candle? Does dragonglass make fire? Is there any instances in the books where dragonglass was burning, in some other form, not in a form of a glass candle? -> No, there was no instances like that. Thus, the only meaning of a phrase "wake fire from dragonglass" is "to ignite/to lit a glass candle".

Thus, the conversation that Dany had with Quaithe in Chapter 3 of ACOK, is an evidence that glass candles became reignited BEFORE Dany burned the House of the Undying. That conversation happened in Chapter 3, the burning happened in Chapter 4, and the conversation in which Xaro mentioned Urrathon was in Chapter 5. 

But I didn't wrote in that previous post about Xaro's conversation with Dany, in which Xaro mentioned Urrathon, I wrote about Dany's conversation with Quaithe, the conversation in which there was no mentioning of Urrathon Nightwalker, or his house, or his glass candles.

So why are you answering to that post with  

22 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

First of all, nope. I've just checked, and Urrathon NW was mentioned in DaenerysV, while she was in the HotU in DaenerysIV. It is also what the Wiki says. And Xaro said this to Daenerys among those other warnings for what she had done in the HotU. Still, we can't know what he meant by saying that.

?

I wrote about Dany's conversation with Quaithe in Chapter 3. What you checked and posted afterwards is entirely unconnected to what is written in that my post to which you replied.

23 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I did not say that the candles are his own property. They are given to him to use. Why would the Citadel give it to someone who can't use it? And if he can't use it, and the candles ignite themselves, then how would he get any more permission for using them than anyone else in the Citadel? How?

Glass candles are valuable and useless. They are valuable because they are ancient magical artifacts. And they are useless because they don't work.

At least that's what the situation was until recently. Now they are not useless, now they work again.

Though, most likely, rather even DEFINITELY, other maesters at the Citadel are still unaware that glass candles are working again. Because Marwyn didn't shared this information with them. The only people at the Citadel that know that glass candles are working again are Marwyn and several of his closest acolytes - Leo, Alleras and fakePate.

If other maesters would have known that glass candles are working again, then they either would have destroyed them, or the opposite - they would have used them all the time, to spy after everyone all over the world, in which case Marwyn and his fellas wouldn't have had an access even to a single glass candle, all candles would have been taken by other observers, greater archmaesters and Marwyn's superiors.

Though until recently there was no reason for the supervisors of the Citadel to forbid to anyone (who has access to the Citadel's other resources) to take a glass candle, for whatever reason.

I think that they were not guarded, not kept somewhere hidden and under locks. Anyone (not anyone anyone, just anyone from the Citadel - maesters, acolytes, etc.) could have taken a glass candle without asking a permission to take one, without informing anyone what are they intending to do with it. No one cared if someone took one, because glass candles weren't working. By "someone took one", I don't mean took it away permanently, I  mean took it temporarily and without taking it outside of the Citadel's premises. Like a special library book that is forbidden to be taken anywhere outside of the library, but is allowed to be used in the library.

Thus, to answer your question - that glass candle wasn't given to Marwyn to use, it wasn't given to him at all. He himself took it. And no one prevented him from taking it, and no one even asked him why is he taking it, or what is he intending to do with it, because no one knew that it's working.

And Marwyn found out that the glass candles are working again, because his ex-teacher, Shiera/Quaithe, told him. And she found out that they are working again, because she's a dragonseed and she's a sorceress, so she felt it when the dragon-magic returned into the world, after Dany had that dragon-dream in AGOT-DanyCh3.

Shiera realised that glass candles are working again, and she used one of them (because it's likely that she owned one since way back, when she was a member of Targaryen court) to contact Marwyn. She came to him in a dream (like she appeared to Dany in AGOT, Dany IX and ADWD, Dany X) or in a vision (like she appeared to Dany in ADWD, Dany II and before that in one of the other books, don't remember which one was it, when Dany was on board of her ship, Balerion, and thought that she had a dream, but she wasn't sleeping at that time), and told him that glass candles are working again, and that he should take one for himself out of the Citadel's storages, or wherever they were keeping their ancient and valuable but useless artifatcs.

On 1/11/2021 at 10:14 PM, Daeron the Daring said:
On 1/11/2021 at 9:39 PM, Megorova said:

All glass candles reignited by themselves, after the dragon-magic returned into the world, after Dany's dragon-dream.

Any actual proof for that?

By "reignited" I meant started working again.

And it's entirely different matter whether now they are burning all the time, 24/7, or whether to use them the user has to lit one everytime he wants to use it, and to extinguish it every time after using. Also a different question whether the one who lits the candle has to have some special power, for example to be a dragonseed, or whether anyone can lit it by using a match or a normal candle or other non-magical source of fire.

The obvious answer is that either now 1. glass candles burn all the time, and they got litened on their own by a magical fire that appeared from within the dragonglass from which the candles are made, or 2. if they don't burn all the time, then it's likely that now, when they have a magic fuel inside them (dragon-magic), they can be litened and used by anyone.

5 hours ago, TheSamsa said:

This means the maesters had roughly 150 years to forget that in their final ritual the candles always burned, and think of a aphorism instead.

You're wrong. They created that ritual after glass candles became useless, after the last dragon died and it became impossible to lit a glass candle. The whole point of that ritual is to make acolytes to accept that some things are impossible, same as it's impossible to lit a glass candle (in the world where there's no dragons).

@Daeron the Daring I wrote my opinion, you are free to disagree with it. I already posted here what I wanted to say about Urrathon Night Walker, so I'm done with this thread. :cheers:

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9 hours ago, Megorova said:

Half a year gone, that man could scarcely wake fire from dragonglass.

This is what the book says, dude! Scarcely! Scarcely =/= not! You are the one that misinterpreted the actual text. It says lighting a glasscandle was scarcely reachable, but NOT impossible! 

Do you understand already? It wasn't impossible, and Marwyn might have managed to light them, that's probably why he is allowed ot use them. And, this also means that Quathie was able to light them before too, or at least knows someone that can

Instead, you created gigantic plotholes, so that everything would fit into your theory.

 

9 hours ago, Megorova said:

Thus, the conversation that Dany had with Quaithe in Chapter 3 of ACOK, is an evidence that glass candles became reignited BEFORE Dany burned the House of the Undying.

Yes, it says it, but we were especially talking about Urrathon Night Walker. 

 

9 hours ago, Megorova said:

So why are you answering to that post with this

Because: Urrathon Night Walker's glasscandles are mentioned in DanyV! 

Xaro told Daenerys about the glasscandles as a fucking warning, as a conclusion for her burning down the HotU! That's how it fits into the actual text of the books! Again you are who misinterpreted the text.

9 hours ago, Megorova said:

Previously you didn't comprehended what was the point of the ritual, that Lazy Leo described to Sam, that the point of that nightly vigil with a glass candle is to make an acolyte to realise that some things are impossible, same as it's impossible to ignite a glass candle.

That's what the ritual means for Lazy Leo! But not for someone being able to ignite it!

Your theory makes sense at several points, but also contradicts itself many times. Yet, I have several questions to you, now that our misunderstandings are clear on both sides: 

-How does the 100 year gap of Urrathon's candles not burning refers to every glasscandle? Read again the entire DanyV chapter, if you have, you might realise what I said.

-How can 146 years mentioned as 100 years? Instead it would've been said that in a 150 years, but no, it isn't!

-How could be Urrathon Night Walker be Euron, since Urrathon seems to be a well-known person in Qarth, and Euron only started his journey 2 years ago?

-Why would Marwyn be allowed to use glasscandles, if he, according to other maesters and you, wasn't able to light a candle himself?

-If he smuggled the candles into his room, how no master realized the candles missing, or saw them in Marwyn's room? At least there must be someone at the Citadel who keeps an eye on things, so that noone will stole anything!

-How are Marwyn and Quathie collaborating, when Quathie LITERALLY warns Daenerys not to trust in him!

Hope you'll understand what I meant when I said you're creating gigantic plotholes. These, totally absurd quotes are also hilarious:

10 hours ago, Megorova said:

Though now, after the dragon-magic has returned, that ritual is pointless,

 

10 hours ago, Megorova said:

No one cared if someone took one, because glass candles weren't working

 

10 hours ago, Megorova said:

Thus, to answer your question - that glass candle wasn't given to Marwyn to use, it wasn't given to him at all. He himself took it. And no one prevented him from taking it, and no one even asked him why is he taking it, or what is he intending to do with it, because no one knew that it's working.

 

10 hours ago, Megorova said:

They created that ritual after glass candles became useless, after the last dragon died and it became impossible to lit a glass candle

 

On 1/10/2021 at 8:51 PM, Megorova said:

I

On 1/11/2021 at 3:58 PM, Megorova said:

What is written in the quote above means that the glass candles IN GENERAL have not burned in a hundred years.

I think that Urrathon Night Walker is one of Euron Greyjoy's aliases.

 

On 1/11/2021 at 3:58 PM, Megorova said:

The glass candles in general, all over the world, have not burned in a hundred years, because for a hundred years there was no living dragons in the world.

Just think about glasscandles as what happened with the wildfire: After the death of the last dragon, making wildfire became pretty hard, not impossible.

 

On 1/11/2021 at 3:58 PM, Megorova said:

So the glass candles were not burning all over the world for a hundred (~144-146) years, since 153 AC, when the last dragon died, and until they were reignited recently, in 297-299 AC, also all over the world, including in the house of Urrathon Nightwalker.

While Urrathon is a pretty new person in Qarth, according to you.

I think you understand when I say you made up an entire story that contrsdicts even the books. Tho, your theory, as I said before, has several good points, still.

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6 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

-If he smuggled the candles into his room, how no master realized the candles missing, or saw them in Marwyn's room? At least there must be someone at the Citadel who keeps an eye on things, so that noone will stole anything!

-How are Marwyn and Quathie collaborating, when Quathie LITERALLY warns Daenerys not to trust in him!

While I agree with you (on this mater at least) and would warn you about arguing with Megorova, I got things to say with regards of these two points.

1. I imagine Marwyn would keep the glass candles regardless of his ability to light them, as he's the archmaester of higher mysteries. If you go to a college campus and need a microscope, you'd probably find it with the head of biology.

2. It's possible that Quaithe wasn't talking about Marwyn, as she speaks in metaphor, it's easy to misinterpret her. I don't think they are working together tho.

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2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I imagine Marwyn would keep the glass candles regardless of his ability to light them, as he's the archmaester of higher mysteries. If you go to a college campus and need a microscope, you'd probably find it with the head of biology.

That's actually a logical approach, and I find it acceptable, as a valid solution for this mistery.

2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

It's possible that Quaithe wasn't talking about Marwyn, as she speaks in metaphor, it's easy to misinterpret her. I don't think they are working together tho.

It might be te case. I seem to imagine Quathie the only character who can not have a bacfire on Daenerys. Her intentions seem to be the purest, and this is shown by her being emotional too around Daenerys.

 

2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

I would warn you about arguing with Megorova

I don't mind continuing this argument.

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