ThinkerX Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, DMC said: If the president were to visit my complex? ...Um, I'm not comfortable taking this conversation any further on the internet. It's not a comfortable subject. That said, my whole reason for bringing it up is there are a *lot* of far right folks who believe that 'Biden will never become POTUS,' and as of a few days ago even the crazy legal means of preventing Biden from taking office are exhausted. Given their nature... ...this mess has the potential to get worse. Much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, ThinkerX said: It's not a comfortable subject. That said, my whole reason for bringing it up is there are a *lot* of far right folks who believe that 'Biden will never become POTUS,' and as of a few days ago even the crazy legal means of preventing Biden from taking office are exhausted. Given their nature... ...this mess has the potential to get worse. Much worse. I get all that. Just don't know what I or my building have to do with it is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 11 minutes ago, DMC said: Well, no measure is perfect, but it certainly conclusively demonstrates Biden was not a conservative Democrat throughout his Senate career, which is all that matters in this context. I don't think it exonerates him from the charge of being a conservative Democrat, it just shows that he may not be THE most conservative Democrat. What I will say that it shows is that for all his faults, Biden is a party loyalist. He has made a career of staking a position slightly to the left of the political center and just sitting there and making deals, whether those deals are good or bad could be debated, but I'd say that that is the best characterization of Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Ryan Grim has a twitter thread on the plans that right wing groups are making for next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Re that 60 Minutes with Pelosi -- as brought up even on the previous thread, now they really know what it's been like for school kids for three decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: I don't think it exonerates him from the charge of being a conservative Democrat, it just shows that he may not be THE most conservative Democrat. Again, it shows conclusively that he wasn't even close to the group of Democratic Senators that most frequently vote with the Republicans, or against their own party. And by any reasonable person's definition, that means he's not nor ever has been a conservative Democrat. Unless your definition of conservative Democrat is that most Democrats were/are "conservative," in which case I'd say your view of ideology and the recent history of the Democratic party is fundamentally warped. 12 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: He has made a career of staking a position slightly to the left of the political center and just sitting there and making deals, whether those deals are good or bad could be debated, but I'd say that that is the best characterization of Biden. More accurately, and importantly, he's made a career of staking out a position among the median within the Democratic party. Which means that, yes, he's been pulled left over a half century in national politics. This 50 year consistent pattern of behavior overwhelmingly suggests that is how he will govern as president - from the median of the current Democratic party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 20 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: Ryan Grim has a twitter thread on the plans that right wing groups are making for next weekend. Is Ryan Grim related to you? Something I have mentioned elsewhere, but not here, is that I thought the PGA should ban all future tournaments from any Trump golf course. I see, scrolling down that twitter feed, that the PGA executive is planning to meet and do that. I hope the British do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 At least 25 people under investigation for terrorism in connection with Capitol riot The official said some troops – active and reserve duty – may have been involved in the riot, and the military will investigate them as necessary. ... “We are engaged in identifying all of those who took part in breaching the Capitol, regardless of their affiliation,” Justice spokesman Marc Raimondi said Sunday. The Pentagon also has been asked to review all members who will be a part of the security detail for the Jan. 20 inauguration to ensure the are "not sympathetic to domestic terrorists," Crow said. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/01/10/25-troops-under-investigation-terrorism-related-riot-capitol/6618295002/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Man Armed With Assault Rifle Texted Plans To Shoot Nancy Pelosi, Officials Say Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. relayed plans to hurt the House speaker while traveling to attend Wednesday’s pro-Trump rally near the Capitol, authorities said. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cleveland-grover-meredith-charged-nancy-pelosi-threat_n_5ffb4922c5b656719886c1e5 Quote A Georgia man texted people his intentions to shoot House Speaker Nancy Pelosi “on live TV” while making his way to the nation’s capital with an assault rifle for Wednesday’s pro-Trump rally, authorities said. Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. was arrested at a Washington, D.C., hotel on Thursday after his disturbing plans were discovered in text messages that he had sent to friends, The New York Times reported, citing federal documents. Meredith’s alleged text messages included him bragging of having a “ton of 5.56 armor piercing ammo” and wanting to run over the Democratic leader. He texted one person saying he had planned to attend Wednesday’s rally near the Capitol, but had vehicle trouble. Authorities said he arrived after the rally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 46 minutes ago, DMC said: Again, it shows conclusively that he wasn't even close to the group of Democratic Senators that most frequently vote with the Republicans, or against their own party. And by any reasonable person's definition, that means he's not nor ever has been a conservative Democrat. Unless your definition of conservative Democrat is that most Democrats were/are "conservative," in which case I'd say your view of ideology and the recent history of the Democratic party is fundamentally warped. More accurately, and importantly, he's made a career of staking out a position among the median within the Democratic party. Which means that, yes, he's been pulled left over a half century in national politics. This 50 year consistent pattern of behavior overwhelmingly suggests that is how he will govern as president - from the median of the current Democratic party. It really depends on how we are defining conservative. I tend to look at things a lot more in a global sense, and to be frank, on a global scale most American politicians in the modern age are center right at best. If we're going to talk about warped ideological perception, I'd argue that viewing it only through a American lens is the actually warped perspective. The Republican party is a far right party, and the Democratic party is a center right party with some center left members, and that is reality. As for the voting thing, all that proves is that Biden can be expected to vote similarly to the center of the party, it does not mean that Biden's political positions are not conservative. Biden can still be conservative while being a party loyalist, as evidenced by the fact that he took an active role in the deal making culture that inevitably leads to watering down bills. Just look at what happened back in 2013 when he absolutely fucked Harry Reid and the Democrats during the budget negotiation by making a deal with McConnell behind Reid's back. Do you think that someone who is constantly orienting to the center can only be looked at as proof of him being pulled left? It can be argued just as easily that it is political opportunism and shows a lack of strongly held positions. Now, I chose to believe that Biden is a basically good person, and while I do think it is indeed political opportunism, it comes from a place of seeing his being in the center as a way to do good. Of course I think the way he actually does "good" is wrong and at times harmful, I do think it is genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 Alanis Morisette is in my head right now. Josh Hawley served on the Senate Committee on Armed Services, Emerging Threats and Capabilities. And the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Apparently the wackos picked the 17th because Q is the 17th letter of the alphabet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, GrimTuesday said: I tend to look at things a lot more in a global sense, and to be frank, on a global scale most American politicians in the modern age are center right at best. If we're going to talk about warped ideological perception, I'd argue that viewing it only through a American lens is the actually warped perspective. The Republican party is a far right party, and the Democratic party is a center right party with some center left members, and that is reality. Extending the ideological definition out globally is rather impossible. One can make somewhat easy comparisons with Europe, but once you get into Latin America, Southeast Asia, definitely Africa, the entire endeavor of comparing parties between countries becomes way too murky. It's frankly absurd to try even among experts. You can certainly say the Democratic party is further to the right than most dominant "left" parties in the "western" world, but that doesn't change the reality the politicians that compose that party are still operating within the American context - and most importantly the context of the American electorate. Which means, yes, describing Biden's half century record as a "conservative" Democrat still means you have a fundamentally warped view of American ideology, if you want to qualify it that way. Given how he's updated/shifted his positions over that time, it's almost certain if he was a politician in a country with a more left-leaning party alignment, he'd be in the median of that dominant leftist party as well. 11 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: As for the voting thing, all that proves is that Biden can be expected to vote similarly to the center of the party, it does not mean that Biden's political positions are not conservative. Biden can still be conservative while being a party loyalist, as evidenced by the fact that he took an active role in the deal making culture that inevitably leads to watering down bills. Um, no, if you have a voting record that's in the center of that party that definitionally means you do not have political positions - on the whole - that are conservative within that party. You have no valid argument here. As for equating Biden being conservative because he's had the temerity to make deals with the GOP, that's just a particularly dumb view of how to legislate that I don't really care to entertain. 15 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said: Do you think that someone who is constantly orienting to the center can only be looked at as proof of him being pulled left? It can be argued just as easily that it is political opportunism and shows a lack of strongly held positions. I think the vast majority of politicians are motivated primarily if not almost solely by political opportunism - particularly their policy preferences within the party they wish to compete and seek office. Biden's record definitely reflects that, no argument there. Which is why I'm very confident he will govern from the center of the Democratic party. You may view that as a detriment, I view that as reassuring. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: I...I don't know... https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/a-letter-from-the-chairman/?v=7516fd43adaa Let the record reflect that the The Nye County Chairman that signed that letter is a freak named Chris Zimmerman. These people need to have the light of day on them as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Martell Spy said: Man Armed With Assault Rifle Texted Plans To Shoot Nancy Pelosi, Officials Say Cleveland Grover Meredith Jr. relayed plans to hurt the House speaker while traveling to attend Wednesday’s pro-Trump rally near the Capitol, authorities said. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cleveland-grover-meredith-charged-nancy-pelosi-threat_n_5ffb4922c5b656719886c1e5 18 months suspended sentence incoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I keep seeing right wingers invoking George Orwell and 1984 in their weeping about how oppressed they are and once again one must be in awe of the fact that people who so claim to love western culture know so little about it. The claims that Orwell would somehow on the side of these right wing fascists is hilarious, and if you want some proof to slap around your right wing friends with, look no further. Quote "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it." George Orwell "Why I Write" (1946). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: I just had this vision of Trump supporters demanding that, after his death, he be heavily embalmed and put on display, like Lenin. Let’s not wait that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Regarding the stimulus debates- American personal disposable income is at pathetic and alarming lows according to this article stating that fewer than 4 of 10 Americans can even scrape together the funds to cover an $1000 emergency/unexpected expense. https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/despite-stimulus-help-fewer-4-050105458.html Scary times we're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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