What do you think are your favorite characters's biggest flaws?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

So we all have our favorite characters, whom we like and root for. But we also (usually) accept that they have flaws too. So what do you think are your favorite character's biggest flaws. In my case:

- Stannis, who is probably my favorite character, I'd say his biggest flaw is entitledness in ACOK and ASOS and while he mostly gets rid of that in ADWD, there I'd say his biggest problem is his general social awkwardness, especially around women.

- Aegon, the King who I have the most hope for, seeing as Stannis's ark is basically about him abandoning his kingship for the greater good, I'd say by far his biggest problem is his impulsivity and his rashness.

- Jaime, honestly my favorite character. Jaime is actually working off most of his flaws as the story progresses, in what is probably my favorite character ark in the story, but I'd say that his pride and slight narcissistic tendencies are still a flaw, even though they're much tamer than at the beginning of the story.

- Jon. Out of the three endgame possibilities, he's the one I most hope becomes King, so anyways, his greatest flaw I think is, as I've outlines, his terrible communication with his underlings. Hope Ghost manages to put some communication skills into him while he's visiting at the beginning of TWOW.

So anyways, those are I think the biggest flaws of my favorite characters. How about yours?

[Daeron the Daring]

32 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So we all have our favorite characters, whom we like and root for. But we also (usually) accept that they have flaws too. So what do you think are your favorite character's biggest flaws.

-Jon: Joining the NW. Even tho it might (and will) play out well, I see it as his greatest mistake at this point.

-Jaime: Joining the Kingsguard. 

-Daenerys: Not leaving Meereen already.

-Benjen Stark: Dissapearing. Dude, how could you? 

-Tyrion: Blackmailing Cersei with Tommen.

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

I said flaws but oh well.

3 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

-Jon: Joining the NW. Even tho it might (and will) play out well, I see it as his greatest mistake at this point.

I'm not sure about that. I mean yes, it was a bad idea because of course, but look at Jon at the beginning of AGOT and Jon in ACOK. The Watch allows him to go from a whinny broody boy, to a mature adult.

4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

-Benjen Stark: Dissapearing. Dude, how could you? 

Yes, how dare you make us wait till TWOW for R+L=J :)))

5 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

-Tyrion: Blackmailing Cersei with Tommen.

Without a doubt a dumb move.

[Daeron the Daring]

8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yes, how dare you make us wait till TWOW for R+L=J :)))

He surely knows, and I think he might get the chance to tell him earlier than Howland could. The reasons for telling him I do not see, however.

[Curled Finger]

Stannis because of his many flaws.   He is a very funny humorless sort of guy.  I think his worst flaw is bitterness. 

Sam because he is a badass.  He has no clue and I feel his underestimation of his own abilities limits his growth.  

Cersei because she is so messed up despite all the privilege her life has afforded her.  She could use more vulnerability.  

Arya for her indominable sense of righteousness.  She can't keep applying her Stark senses in Braavos.  She needs to be home now.  

Brienne and Jon both spend too much time in their heads with too little confidence in themselves.  

Tyrion is simply way too smart and ambitious for his own good if he remains an advisor.  

Sandor Clegane's paralyzing fear.  

Dany thinks fast on her feet.  She regrets much and doubts herself.  She needs to think it through or own it completely.  

Bran's greatest flaw may well be his most charming aspect, his age.  I would like his story as seen through an older person's eyes.  

[Alyn Oakenfist]

7 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Stannis because of his many flaws.   He is a very funny humorless sort of guy.

I don't think he's humorless. His dry jokes are too many to be unintentional. He's smart enough to see and make humor, quite great humor, it's just that he's not particularly good at the laughing part.

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Arya for her indominable sense of righteousness.  She can't keep applying her Stark senses in Braavos.  She needs to be home now.  

Thank you for that. Been meaning to put into words why some of the things Arya does in Braavos are fucked up beyond the fact that she's killing people, especially in Daeron's case.

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Brienne and Jon both spend too much time in their heads with too little confidence in themselves.  

I mean by ADWD Jon had kinda overcome this particular flaw, though hopefully not so much as to make him unable to think back and learn from his fuck ups in ADWD.

12 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Dany thinks fast on her feet.  She regrets much and doubts herself.  She needs to think it through or own it completely.  

She also has her obsession with prophecy and betrayals, something that I'm sure is not going to affect her in any way when she meets Aegon. Nope, none what so ever.

13 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Bran's greatest flaw may well be his most charming aspect, his age.  I would like his story as seen through an older person's eyes.  

If by an older person you mean a thousands of years old tree entity, then you might get your wish sooner than expected.

[Arthur Peres]

Most of mine are already dead... Robb, Ned, Oberyn, Tywin...

I don't see anything too bad with Arya...

Euron... well is easier to say what is not wrong with him...

Davos I think is loyal to the wrong man.

 

[Nevets]

Arya - Righteous and impulsive with anger management issues.   Tends to lash out.  Way too willing to kill.

Jon - Poor communication.   Doesn't listen and is high-handed. 

Sansa - Naive, snobbish, and too biddable.  May be too nice for her own good.

Ned - Overly rigid sense of honor.  Too little flexibility and pragmatism. 

Brienne and Sam - Lack self-confidence.   Sam's lack effectively paralyzes him.

Sandor Clegane - Rough, gruff, mean, and nasty.  Couldn't be nice to save his life.  Prone to violence.

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

Sansa turns everything into a story, and it clouds her judgement, like convincing herself that Littlefinger is her real father. I think all characters have a story they tell themselves that affects their judgement, but with Sansa, she fanfics the bad dudes as her helpers, husbands, and fathers.

[Curled Finger]

51 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Thank you for that. Been meaning to put into words why some of the things Arya does in Braavos are fucked up beyond the fact that she's killing people, especially in Daeron's case.

I mean by ADWD Jon had kinda overcome this particular flaw, though hopefully not so much as to make him unable to think back and learn from his fuck ups in ADWD.

She also has her obsession with prophecy and betrayals, something that I'm sure is not going to affect her in any way when she meets Aegon. Nope, none what so ever.

If by an older person you mean a thousands of years old tree entity, then you might get your wish sooner than expected.

Arya's doing what she has been indoctrinated with in growing up Stark.  Her Northern justice belongs in the North where it makes sense instead of her very young mind trying to fit FM credo into her own truths about justice.  She doesn't kill for the joy of it, she's always got a reason.  

I'm listening to ADWD this weekend and enjoying the whole vibe these past hours.  Jon has to talk himself into so many things that he does do, just as Brienne's instincts are to fight despite what she fears or feels.  While he has made progress he's got to start believing all the things he says to himself. 

That's a good point about Dany.  She's very complicated and larger than life on my scale or realism.  She doesn't get a pass for that so much as I am often incapable of understanding her motives.  She's got brilliant forward thinking progressive ideals and a sweet heart but she got these impossible negotiations and politics she can't possibly have the education to deal with.  Like Brienne, Dany is instinctual in the way she is about her business.  She is plagued by prophesy in her sleep and hunger and wandering madness.  She's just met Quentyn in my listening.  He had the worst timing of anyone in all Essos.  Her whole Mereen game could have changed had he been only 3 months earlier.  At any rate, I look forward to hearing if she connects The Prince of Dorne to the Sun's Son of prophecy.  

Just an older person.  Someone who understood what was happening all the way around.  Not BR, though that would be bitchen, just someone with more experience to describe knowing his father sensed his presence in the past or being inside Hodor.  Bran has some amazing experiences, but little boys don't have all the words to describe them.    

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Sansa turns everything into a story, and it clouds her judgement, like convincing herself that Littlefinger is her real father. I think all characters have a story they tell themselves that affects their judgement, but with Sansa, she fanfics the bad dudes as her helpers, husbands, and fathers.

Totally true.  Wonder what the psychiatrists call people who can do that? 

[Tyrion1991]

Dany is extremely violent and is a character of extremes. For example I have to choose between being Neville Chamberlain and Genghis Khan in ADWD. Still not entirely sure why people in Westeros would suddenly become concerned about these things but hey.

Jorah is a selfish jerk to people he doesn’t love. He also is probably giving Dany bad advice. He’s misjudged her as this brave sweet young girl who needs to be taught harsh lessons of the world to toughen her up otherwise he thinks he will lose her “Rhaegar died”, “you have a gentle heart” when she’s actually extremely violent and from a family known for this. He should be using his bond and the fact Dany listens to him to push the other direction. It’s not a coincidence that Dany thinks of Jorah and his advice in the grass sea to remember who she is. I fully expect George will find some way to insinuate that Dany would have been invited to Westeros 1660 restoration style if she had simply waited with her Dragons for Aegon to fall.

Tyrion needs to hold his tongue and think before he speaks. 

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

4 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

- Jon. Out of the three endgame possibilities, he's the one I most hope becomes King, so anyways, his greatest flaw I think is, as I've outlines, his terrible communication with his underlings. Hope Ghost manages to put some communication skills into him while he's visiting at the beginning of TWOW.

I don't think he has terrible communication per se. He communicated his plans to his officers very well. I think it feels that way because he refuses to yield a single inch. 

As much as Jon and Dany run parallel to one another, she let the Green Grace and the Sons of the Harpy rule her. She locks up her dragons, she marries Hizdhar for the peace, she reopens the fighting pits.

Jon gives up nothing. For instance, he could have compromised with naming Satin his squire. He could have sent Satin to Long Barrow with Iron Emmett and kept Dolorous Edd back in his position. That's genuinely something he could have given his idiot officers. But he didn't. In the end, though, I don't think it would have mattered. The outcome was still going to be the same.

Cersei is actually one of my favorite characters. Her pride knows no bounds and she is batshit crazy.

[Darth Sidious]

Daenerys Targaryen.  Youth and inexperience.  

[Alyn Oakenfist]

38 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Totally true.  Wonder what the psychiatrists call people who can do that? 

I think the scientific term is a coping mechanism

[Alyn Oakenfist]

11 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego Targaryen said:

Daenerys Targaryen.  Youth and inexperience.  

Is that all? Do you like any other characters, or is that the whole list of main characters you like?

[Darth Sidious]

2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Is that all? Do you like any other characters, or is that the whole list of main characters you like?

You asked for favorite.  Yes, she is my favorite.  And those are her flaws.  I like Barristan, Brienne, Missandei, and a few others.  

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Just now, Oumuamua said:

You asked for favorite.  Yes, she is my favorite.

I could never have guessed. Who would have thought...

1 minute ago, Oumuamua said:

And those are her flaws.

Only those, right? Other then being young and inexperienced she's perfect, right?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Cersei is actually one of my favorite characters. Her pride knows no bounds and she is batshit crazy.

I think in her case it's more than pride. It's straight up narcissism, down to having a favorite kid she sowers with affection as an extension of herself and others she just ignore.

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

As much as Jon and Dany run parallel to one another, she let the Green Grace and the Sons of the Harpy rule her. She locks up her dragons, she marries Hizdhar for the peace, she reopens the fighting pits.

Yes, Dany has weird ideas on what compromise is, and in usual fashion she over does it, as you said, letting  those two rule her.

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Jon gives up nothing. For instance, he could have compromised with naming Satin his squire. He could have sent Satin to Long Barrow with Iron Emmett and kept Dolorous Edd back in his position. That's genuinely something he could have given his idiot officers. But he didn't. In the end, though, I don't think it would have mattered. The outcome was still going to be the same.

He should have changed his idiot officers. In Jon IX or X I think Bowen outright calls Jon an oathbreaker for letting the wildlings through, to which Jon reacts by reminding him his vows. He should have removed him from office then and there and put someone loyal in charge of the stewards to watch over them and make sure they're loyal.

Poor communicating wasn't his only mistake. Letting obviously disloyal people keep power thinking he could side step them was also a big mistake.

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

As much as Jon and Dany run parallel to one another, she let the Green Grace and the Sons of the Harpy rule her. She locks up her dragons, she marries Hizdhar for the peace, she reopens the fighting pits.

I dont think these are flaws, I think this is what ruling looks like when all you have is reconciliation. The dragons are just war machines and the plot was about putting them away, at least this is what I got from GRRM describing it: "They're very temperamental beasts, they represent power of course in the books. You know I don't believe any more than JRRT did in in fantasy novels as allegory, but there are certain things you can look at. The Dragons can win wars for you, that's established in the histories. But they can't necessarily produce peace or prosperity or help you rule the nation. You know Daenerys Targaryen is finding it out in Meereen when she defeats the cities of Slavers Bay with her three dragons. But then in trying to rule as Queen, she can destroy Meereen any time she wants by just unleashing the dragons, she could kill a lot of people, wipe out that most of the population of the city, reduce the entire city to a fiery inferno, but that doesn't help her come up with good laws or to establish peace between the original inhabitants and the the freedmen and people that she's brought in. So ruling is more than just the power to destroy, and that's a lesson that she's definitely learning" (x)