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U.S. Politics: Leaving On A Jet Plane


Martell Spy

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3 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Can someone please explain to me what (not why) the phrase “the US is not a democracy it’s a republic” is supposed to mean to Americans these days?

I can’t count the number of times when I’ve seen someone lament the damage done to democracy in the US only to have that response thrown in the person’s face.

All it means to those people who say it is that they're cool with Republicans being best friends with their corporate overlords. They believe because they're white they're in the "in group" and will be taken care of. If you were to press them on the definitions of republics and democracies about 1 in a 1000 could accurately provide that, and even less would attempt to rationalize it.

But your last sentence is the true answer. It's a common technique used to shut down a person's valid point by attacking them as unintelligent. If you watch closely...this happens a lot in political discussions!

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Conservative Reddit is a weird place these days. I mean, it’s always been a weird place, but it’s become weird by its own standards. It feels significantly smaller; I think a lot of the fantasists backed off after their fantasies invaded the real world in the most egregious way possible. But that’s left the most dedicated fantasists and the true believers alone in the echo chamber with no one to push back on their wilder theories. Anyway, two theories are being passed around about what happened on the 6th, and why it’s not the Trump Cult’s fault:

1) the Left orchestrated the riot as cover for enacting sweeping legislation to strip us of all our rights

2) establishment Republicans orchestrated the riot as a way to get rid of Trump

No doubt you’ve already heard both these theories, but now they are beginning to merge into a unified theory: establishment Republicans came up with the plan, then cut a deal with the Left to use their antifa army to pull it off.

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40 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Conservative Reddit is a weird place these days. I mean, it’s always been a weird place, but it’s become weird by its own standards. It feels significantly smaller; I think a lot of the fantasists backed off after their fantasies invaded the real world in the most egregious way possible. But that’s left the most dedicated fantasists and the true believers alone in the echo chamber with no one to push back on their wilder theories. Anyway, two theories are being passed around about what happened on the 6th, and why it’s not the Trump Cult’s fault:

1) the Left orchestrated the riot as cover for enacting sweeping legislation to strip us of all our rights

2) establishment Republicans orchestrated the riot as a way to get rid of Trump

No doubt you’ve already heard both these theories, but now they are beginning to merge into a unified theory: establishment Republicans came up with the plan, then cut a deal with the Left to use their antifa army to pull it off.

Now I want the Trump spawn to attend the inauguration. Just wait 'till the MAGA chuds implicate Don Jr. and Ivanka in all this.

Biden should invite them. They can seat them right behind the Clintons. :D

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1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Now I want the Trump spawn to attend the inauguration. Just wait 'till the MAGA chuds implicate Don Jr. and Ivanka in all this.

Biden should invite them. They can seat them right behind the Clintons. :D

Then Hillary should turn around and give a wink and nod to them.  They'll never be trusted by the cult again.

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6 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Can someone please explain to me what (not why) the phrase “the US is not a democracy it’s a republic” is supposed to mean to Americans these days?

I can’t count the number of times when I’ve seen someone lament the damage done to democracy in the US only to have that response thrown in the person’s face.

This illogical juxtaposition of a Republic as in someway in opposition to democracy is a core belief of the Right that democracy is "mob rule." It has been used to justify everything from purges of voter rolls to why we must keep the Electoral College at all cost. Its use is a recognition of the fear on the Right that demography and voter mobilization spells the end to minority rule in the US. In that only they are telling the truth - the demographic trends, and expansion of voter participation in elections do threaten their power. But this is a lie they tell each other over and over again to justify all manner of sins and crimes. They think they uphold a Republic in the face of the mob.

Of course, we witnessed true mob rule on January 6th and it has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.

Often this phrase is used in combination of Franklin's quote about having a republic if we can keep it. Of course this is ripped out of any historical context and meaning. Franklin was not posing a Republic against an alternative of democratic rule, but instead was speaking of it as opposed to the rule of monarchs.

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2 hours ago, Myshkin said:

Conservative Reddit is a weird place these days. I mean, it’s always been a weird place, but it’s become weird by its own standards. It feels significantly smaller; I think a lot of the fantasists backed off after their fantasies invaded the real world in the most egregious way possible. But that’s left the most dedicated fantasists and the true believers alone in the echo chamber with no one to push back on their wilder theories. Anyway, two theories are being passed around about what happened on the 6th, and why it’s not the Trump Cult’s fault:

1) the Left orchestrated the riot as cover for enacting sweeping legislation to strip us of all our rights

2) establishment Republicans orchestrated the riot as a way to get rid of Trump

No doubt you’ve already heard both these theories, but now they are beginning to merge into a unified theory: establishment Republicans came up with the plan, then cut a deal with the Left to use their antifa army to pull it off.

Paul Ryan clearly planned this all to get ready for his triumphant return. It is known.

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On Twitter, I've been seeing right wingers attacking 15 dollar minimum wage. The arguments I've see are that this would bring minimum wage workers to about 29,000 earned a year, and in Texas, starting teachers make 31,000 a year. How is this fair, they ask, that people with "no skills" make almost as much as college educated people? Thus, the 15 dollar minimum wage is bad. I don't know how to even respond to this "line of thought." I mean, that's the thing that might make sense in your head, but the moment you start writing it out for others, you realize, "Oh shit, right, teachers should probably make more than 30,000 a year when they start..."

And they should. And when I started teaching back when the Great Recession hit, I started at about 30,000 and it was not enough to live on 13 years ago. 15 dollar minimum wage is a good start (and I agree with Biden's sentiment--no one working full time should live in poverty--I would expand that to no one should live in poverty, but when we talk about incrementalism--this is actually incrementalism away from the right). In fact, Biden's statement is pretty close to something Bernie said back in 2015(?) in his first debate with Hillary and those other two people who were running. He said no matter what, a single mother of 5 who can't work full time should still make enough to not only survive, but to have some discretionary income left over each month. I know a lot of crazy "Dore" followers are feeling betrayed by AOC and Bernie, but Bernie's work behind the scenes has certainly paid off in Biden's proposed policies. I'm curious to see how it will play out.

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3 hours ago, Myshkin said:

Conservative Reddit is a weird place these days. I mean, it’s always been a weird place, but it’s become weird by its own standards. It feels significantly smaller; I think a lot of the fantasists backed off after their fantasies invaded the real world in the most egregious way possible. But that’s left the most dedicated fantasists and the true believers alone in the echo chamber with no one to push back on their wilder theories. Anyway, two theories are being passed around about what happened on the 6th, and why it’s not the Trump Cult’s fault:

1) the Left orchestrated the riot as cover for enacting sweeping legislation to strip us of all our rights

2) establishment Republicans orchestrated the riot as a way to get rid of Trump

No doubt you’ve already heard both these theories, but now they are beginning to merge into a unified theory: establishment Republicans came up with the plan, then cut a deal with the Left to use their antifa army to pull it off.

What are the Qs saying? I havent been able to find much since their entire Mike Pence getting arrest theory was shot down this week. 

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A republic, and especially republicanism, have tons of widely varying definitions in political theory.  In the American context, a republic can be distilled to a representative democracy guarded by basic liberties and equal protection under the law.  So, as has been mentioned by others, when people say "we're a republic not a democracy," this is a rather pointless distinction that's transparently raised because the person has no substantive argument and/or counterargument.

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3 hours ago, Myshkin said:

Conservative Reddit is a weird place these days. I mean, it’s always been a weird place, but it’s become weird by its own standards. It feels significantly smaller; I think a lot of the fantasists backed off after their fantasies invaded the real world in the most egregious way possible. But that’s left the most dedicated fantasists and the true believers alone in the echo chamber with no one to push back on their wilder theories. Anyway, two theories are being passed around about what happened on the 6th, and why it’s not the Trump Cult’s fault:

1) the Left orchestrated the riot as cover for enacting sweeping legislation to strip us of all our rights

2) establishment Republicans orchestrated the riot as a way to get rid of Trump

No doubt you’ve already heard both these theories, but now they are beginning to merge into a unified theory: establishment Republicans came up with the plan, then cut a deal with the Left to use their antifa army to pull it off.

this does more or less line up with what the far right trolls on my Facebook are saying.  They remain adamant that Antifa, not Trump fans were the prime movers behind the Capital Riot.  And they regard at least some republicans as traitors.

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15 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

this does more or less line up with what the far right trolls on my Facebook are saying.  They remain adamant that Antifa, not Trump fans were the prime movers behind the Capital Riot.  And they regard at least some republicans as traitors.

Just when you think they would hit rock bottom from their fall down the rabbit hole of delusion, we find there are hidden depths of stupidity for them to fall.

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2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Then Hillary should turn around and give a wink and nod to them.  They'll never be trusted by the cult again.

Just put up that famous photo of the Clintons with shoggoth and wife.  Plus-Plus you got 2/3 of the prezes impeached in the history of the nation in the same photo too!   Plus-Plus-Plus, Chelsea and Ivanka.

 

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8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Can someone please explain to me what (not why) the phrase “the US is not a democracy it’s a republic” is supposed to mean to Americans these days?

I find that is a dumb thing people say when they want to sound smart, like "The Electoral College makes sure cities don't elect the president!"

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

What are the Qs saying? I havent been able to find much since their entire Mike Pence getting arrest theory was shot down this week. 

Qs are not allowed on Reddit. To find them you must venture into 8kun, and that I will not do.

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2 hours ago, SFDanny said:

This illogical juxtaposition of a Republic as in someway in opposition to democracy is a core belief of the Right that democracy is "mob rule." It has been used to justify everything from purges of voter rolls to why we must keep the Electoral College at all cost. Its use is a recognition of the fear on the Right that demography and voter mobilization spells the end to minority rule in the US. In that only they are telling the truth - the demographic trends, and expansion of voter participation in elections do threaten their power. But this is a lie they tell each other over and over again to justify all manner of sins and crimes. They think they uphold a Republic in the face of the mob.

Of course, we witnessed true mob rule on January 6th and it has absolutely nothing to do with democracy.

Often this phrase is used in combination of Franklin's quote about having a republic if we can keep it. Of course this is ripped out of any historical context and meaning. Franklin was not posing a Republic against an alternative of democratic rule, but instead was speaking of it as opposed to the rule of monarchs.

Yes.

I’ve seen democracy be equated with mob rule.

Also when discussing individual rights from protesters I’ve seen people invoke mob rule. Either we embrace a more authoritarian government in order to deal with riots or we embrace mob rule.
The people who cry they are the silent majority—usually conservative— are often crying about the tyranny of the majority.

Now to be clear not everything should be left to a vote. 
50.6 of the population should not simply vote to simply enslave half the population.

One could see the danger of mob rule.

Just because something came about through democracy doesn’t mean it’s good 

But the way these people it’s very clear on some subconscious level they realize they’re not the majority given they immediately cry about more populous states—New York and California—controlling everything—people who they think they have less in common with socially and politically.

The majority would not be people who cry they are the silent majority.

 

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32 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Qs are not allowed on Reddit. To find them you must venture into 8kun, and that I will not do.

yet they almost certainly sneak onto Reddit anyhow...I know they've managed to wiggle back onto Facebook

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17 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Now to be clear not everything should be left to a vote. 
50.6 of the population should not simply vote to simply enslave half the population.

One could see the danger of mob rule.

Which is the virtue of a Constitutional Democracy in which individual rights are not subject to the ordinary process of majority rules. Just as a Republic is not in opposition to democracy, neither is majority rule necessarily in opposition to individual rights and freedoms. Mob rule is not synonymous with democracy. We decide together what those individual rights are that cannot be subject to change by a simple majority.

34 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Just because something came about through democracy doesn’t mean it’s good 

No, it doesn't mean that at all.

35 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

But the way these people it’s very clear on some subconscious level they realize they’re not the majority given they immediately cry about more populous states—New York and California—controlling everything—people who they think they have less in common with socially and politically.

The majority would not be people who cry they are the silent majority.

Yes. Most of this is code for seeing the world change and one's perceived place in it change. It's code for racism, sexism, xenophobia, and homophobia. It code for religious intolerance. Unfortunately, none of this is new in US history. But then neither is the constant struggle against bigotry. Obama likes to quote Dr. King about the "arc of the moral universe" bending towards justice, and it is a good thing to remember in dark times.

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