Dresden Files: (Spoilers) will “Mirror Mirror” be better?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

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It's a blink and you'll miss it moment but Harry and Lara don't burn each other anymore:

"Shake on it, wizard?"

I nodded and traded grips with her. “Agreed.”

And a flickering something went between us. It wasn’t White Court mojo, I didn’t think. Just . . . a shivering note of energy. A harmony. It was a promise both of us had put a measure of will behind. It was a promise both of us meant to keep. We both had the same feelings about family.

That implies several things:

1. Harry and Murphy were not really in love; or

2. Winter Court magic offered protection; or

3. It’s a serious continuity error (which wouldn’t shock me an he will retcon later).

PT/BG (more BG than PT remain disappointing to me)

@C.T. Phipps
 

[C.T. Phipps]

I don't think the true love protection will last long after one party is dead.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

58 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I don't think the true love protection will last long after one party is dead.

Why?

[C.T. Phipps]

19 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why?

Why would it? It's never been established as working that way.

Loving someone dead is very different from loving someone alive. Much is made of the bond between subjects and one of the subjects is gone.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Why would it? It's never been established as working that way.

Loving someone dead is very different from loving someone alive. Much is made of the bond between subjects and one of the subjects is gone.

Love is love.  My Grandfather mourned the death of my Grandmother profoundly for three years until he passed as well.  Death would change that.  Hence, the protection of “true love” doesn’t exist all that often.

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

@Ser Scot A Ellison Lara was wearing gloves at that time

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“At Mab’s suggestion, I took it upon myself to run the keys down to you,” Lara said. “I pointed out to the good Baron how it made everything happen in front of witnesses, very official and aboveboard, and avoided any possible moments of . . . negative emotional interaction between the two of you.” I grunted and said, “Between the two of us, eh?” “Oh, Marcone is furious with you, in his own way,” Lara said. “I’d say you won the round.” Which did not make me feel a little surge of petty satisfaction. At all. Ahem. “But you’ve got the keys?” I asked her. She held them up. She was wearing white gloves to go with the business suit.

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (S.387). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle-Version.

As for the title: "Mirror Mirror" will not be released in quite a while I suspect. The next book is called "Twelve Months" and will be about Harry having to deal with the (psychological) fallout from "Battleground" (as well as dates with Lara). If I recall correctly, I will also be a series of interconnected shorter stories set over the course of a year rather than a single story taking place within a few days.

I honestly doubt however that it will be better, BG really felt like regression in a lot of aspects to me only with higher powerlevels.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Okay, that makes sense (the gloves).  I’m still hopeful for improvement.  Do you have a link regarding the book of shorts?

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

https://thelegendarium.podbean.com/e/a-conversation-with-jim-butcher/

Starting at arround 17:00 he announces it.

I do exactly remember if he confirmed that it will be short stories, but it is the impression I get of how it will turn out in the end

EDIT: Here is also a bit about it

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So in terms of-we talked before we went live here you were thinking twenty two books plus the big trilogy, do you have a rough idea for the titles of the books between Battle Ground and the trilogy?

Not really. I know some of the titles, I know the next one's coming up-I'm not writing Mirror Mirror next I'm writing a different book next in the Dresden Files because I decided that after Battle Ground if we just jumped forward into an alternate reality rather than actually seeing what happened to this one that I really think it would undermine a lot of cool story stuff. As it is I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take a little bit of time and I'm gonna write something different than the normal Dresden. Normally Dresden is I write a book that's about his worst weekend of the year and that's what the Dresden Files is really about, Harry Dresden's worst weekend of the year. But the next one I think I'm gonna write is gonna take place over the course of a year and it's going to kind of show what it's like-

We'll follow him for a whole year?

Yeah, yeah. Essentially what I'm gonna do is write once a month I'm gonna be writing a book and it's like "this is how you recover when your world gets blown up" and that's what happened to Dresden whether you like it or not. That's what happened in the last book and you don't just take that and move along, just keep moving along with the themes you've got to stop and look at things once in a while, you've gotta stop and look at yourself once in a while. So I think that's what we're going to do in this next book there's g- I mean we will have the normal Dresden Files nonsense Brutus comes in with a toy here's Brutus everybody in case you wondered if you would get to see Brutus today. We'll be doing a lot of the normal Dresden Files nonsense but it'll be a little bit more spread out and he's got to survive twelve dates with Lara Raith and a bunch of stuff like that so it's gonna be busy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/kblcwm/dresden_files_podcast_episode_77_transcript/

As a side not: I still find the whole engagement to Lara really really creepy.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

https://thelegendarium.podbean.com/e/a-conversation-with-jim-butcher/

Starting at arround 17:00 he announces it.

I do exactly remember if he confirmed that it will be short stories, but it is the impression I get of how it will turn out in the end

EDIT: Here is also a bit about it

https://www.reddit.com/r/dresdenfiles/comments/kblcwm/dresden_files_podcast_episode_77_transcript/

As a side not: I still find the whole engagement to Lara really really creepy.

It makes no sense.  She eats people.  Why would she marry a human?  I’m not going to marry a pizza.

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Well there is the possibility that the engagement was purely Mab's idea and that Lara too was suprised by it

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“Excellent,” said Mab from behind us. “Lady Lara, upon due consideration, your third favor is granted. You have my permission to court my Knight. The wedding will commence at sundown.” “

Uh,” I said, “what?”

Lara arched an eyebrow. “What?” “

WHAT!!??” sputtered Molly.

I blinked at her. Then at Mab. Then at Lara. And then Lara and I both more or less simultaneously jerked our hands out of the grip they’d been in.

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (S.388). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle-Version.

Still that does not explain why Butcher thought it would be a good idea. If he intended to be a "fun" way to torture Harry, then it is extremly tasteless to introduce that plotpoint in the same book where his True Love^TM died and I can not imagine a way for Lara to become sufficiently not-evil that she and Harry could have an actual real relationship

And I am still pissed that Butcher threw away the opportunity to have Harry in a more involved and serious relationship.

[Lord Patrek]

I'm happy we'll get a book dealing with the aftermath of BG instead of MM. 

And I know most of you disagree, but I firmly believe that Murphy is coming back. One way or the other.

You'll see!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

On 1/31/2021 at 10:10 AM, Lord Patrek said:

I'm happy we'll get a book dealing with the aftermath of BG instead of MM. 

And I know most of you disagree, but I firmly believe that Murphy is coming back. One way or the other.

You'll see!

I’m curious to see Murphy run into her Dad.

[C.T. Phipps]

I confess, I am exactly not the audience for complaining about this because I hated Murphy and Harry as a love interest with a fiery sun. I do fully expect Murphy to show up in Mirror, Mirror, though. She's not out of the books. I'm sure that Alt-Murphy who HATES Evil Harry will be there while he attempts to navigate his hellish alternate reality.

I don't know if she'll end up in Harryland afterward but wouldn't be surprised.

It's just Jim's way of getting rid of the Harry and Murphy relationship and good riddance.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

13 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I confess, I am exactly not the audience for complaining about this because I hated Murphy and Harry as a love interest with a fiery sun. I do fully expect Murphy to show up in Mirror, Mirror, though. She's not out of the books. I'm sure that Alt-Murphy who HATES Evil Harry will be there while he attempts to navigate his hellish alternate reality.

I don't know if she'll end up in Harryland afterward but wouldn't be surprised.

It's just Jim's way of getting rid of the Harry and Murphy relationship and good riddance.

What was wrong with Harry/Murphy?  They trusted each other and were a good match.  Neither put up with the other’s crap.  They were equals without any of the teacher student power differential problems that exist with the Molly/Harry ship you favor.

[Lord Patrek]

When I say Murphy is coming back, I don't mean in that silly bizarro Jerry world of MM.

She's coming back in the main sequence. Her death doesn't make sense otherwise. . .

[C.T. Phipps]

41 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What was wrong with Harry/Murphy?  They trusted each other and were a good match.  Neither put up with the other’s crap.  They were equals without any of the teacher student power differential problems that exist with the Molly/Harry ship you favor.

It destroyed one of the better platonic relationships in fiction and played up to the obnoxious idea that the only way the main female and male characters in a work of fiction can relate is romantically. Harry already had multiple female characters better suited for him ranging from Luccio to Elaine to, yes, Lara. They had a mature conversation about what they wanted from relationships with Murphy emphatically saying she didn't want a serious relationship after her failed marriage and Harry being clear he did. She had a better sort of relationship for her stated needs with Kincaid.

It also plays into a rather nasty undercurrent of fiction that if you just pine LONG ENOUGH that a woman will eventually come around to liking you.

Its funny because I really do have the exact sort of "Nope, nope, nope" reaction to them others do for Molly and Harry. Which, you know, I've come to respect.

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

27 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

She's coming back in the main sequence. Her death doesn't make sense otherwise. . .

I mean he does claim that he has planned Murphy's death for 10-15 years, which quite frankly I do not believe

5 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

They had a mature conversation about what they wanted from relationships with Murphy emphatically saying she didn't want a serious relationship after her failed marriage and Harry being clear he did. She had a better sort of relationship for her stated needs with Kincaid.

That conversation took place in Proven Guilty, years before they eventually get together at the end of Skin Game and still years before the end of Changes where they decided "screw it".

19 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

It also plays into a rather nasty undercurrent of fiction that if you just pine LONG ENOUGH that a woman will eventually come around to liking you.

Would a Harry/Molly relationship not be the same with the genders flipped?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 minutes ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

I mean he does claim that he has planned Murphy's death for 10-15 years, which quite frankly I do not believe

That conversation took place in Proven Guilty, years before they eventually get together at the end of Skin Game and still years before the end of Changes where they decided "screw it".

Would a Harry/Molly relationship not be the same with the genders flipped?

Precisely 

[C.T. Phipps]

I've pretty much backed away from my support of the ship. Not because I don't think that Goth Girl snarky girlfriend plays off well with Harry but because it seems to hit so many fans I've talked to with VISCERAL disgust. While I see a 25+ gal and a 30+ gal of rough parity and magical parity, others see a old man creeping on his friend's teenage daughter.

If it's going to invoke that kind of emotion, best to avoid it. I'll find my Goth Girl witch romances elsewhere or write them myself.

Best to avoid that kind of fan reaction.

[Tygafifty]

On 1/18/2021 at 8:50 AM, C.T. Phipps said:

Why would it? It's never been established as working that way.

Loving someone dead is very different from loving someone alive. Much is made of the bond between subjects and one of the subjects is gone.

I just finished re-reading Blood Rites And they mention if the white court killed Genoa’s unidentified fiancé, the white court could regain control of him. Which they didn’t have while he was in love.