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NFL 2021 By Henne Means Necessary


mcbigski

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25 minutes ago, KalbearAnon said:

Yeah no, that's not how this works. They have departments dedicated to those ends but if they're not in alignment with what the coach identifies as wants/needs they're useless, or worse than useless. Often the coach also wants to bring in their own set of scouts or scout leads. And then there's the whole dealing with contracts and other fun things.

There are a lot of problems if you don't do this; several programs hired their coaches late, and that first draft was completely pointless for them. And that's a big issue. It doesn't always have to be, but realistically if your program is hiring a coach at the end of the season you're already not a particularly well-run system, so having more time to get things working better is important.

Yep. This is spot on. I saw it play out first hand with the Bengals two years ago. They waited until the Rams were done playing in the Super Bowl to hire Zac Taylor, and not only did he have trouble putting together his coaching staff (I think Lou Anarumo was about his 4th or 5th choice for DC), but his first draft here was terrible. His second draft was much better (obviously having the 1st pick helps). The more time the better though. 

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30 minutes ago, KalbearAnon said:

Yeah no, that's not how this works. They have departments dedicated to those ends but if they're not in alignment with what the coach identifies as wants/needs they're useless, or worse than useless. Often the coach also wants to bring in their own set of scouts or scout leads. And then there's the whole dealing with contracts and other fun things.

The kind of overhaul needed for what you're describing can't be solved in four or so additional weeks. You need at one season to really understand your team, and that's why I always give coaches a pass on their first year. That's the period when they should be figuring out their plan and how to implement it. 

Anyways, a GM hiring a coach probably also has a team ready in place and their fingers will be all over things as well. 

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There are a lot of problems if you don't do this; several programs hired their coaches late, and that first draft was completely pointless for them. And that's a big issue. It doesn't always have to be, but realistically if your program is hiring a coach at the end of the season you're already not a particularly well-run system, so having more time to get things working better is important.

You overestimate how much the HC plays in drafting. It does for top end picks, but outside of that, some person we've never heard of probably plays a larger role than a lot of HCs these days. 

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In reality the NFL should not allow coaching hires until after the season is completed. Doing it this way really just gives the good teams a better chance at keeping their good coaches since most teams aren't patient enough to wait.

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And this seems insane to even speculate to me:

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Joe Marino, The Draft Network: QB Zach Wilson, BYU

  • TRADE: Miami Dolphins trade No. 3, No. 18, No. 81, Tua Tagovailoa, Xavien Howard, and a 2022 first-round pick to the Houston Texans for Deshaun Watson and pick No. 120. San Francisco 49ers trade No. 12, No. 44, No. 116 and a 2022 first-round pick to the Houston Texans for No. 3 overall.

Three first round draft picks and the guy who inspired the "Tanking for Tua" slogan?  (To say nothing of a third round pick and a quality starter in the defensive backfield?!!?)

I like Watson.  A lot.  But that just seems like an absurd amount.  

I'm also not keen on the second part of the discussion where the Niners move up that high for Zach Wilson.

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I agree that some of the offers flying around for Watson have gotten completely out of this world.  Watson is a great player, but is he really that much better than say, Matt Ryan or Cam Newton after four years?  Both those guys won an NFL MVP and led a team to the Super Bowl.  And yet it's pretty clear that neither of those guys is going to make an average team into a contender.  They can take an average team and lose in the divisional round, if that's your goal.  We've already seen the Texans do that too with Watson. 

And I don't compare Watson to Ryan/Newton as an insult at all.  Both of those guys in their prime were absolutely good enough to lead their team to a SB win.  It didn't happen because in both cases the teams (or coaches) around them weren't quite good enough to finish the job.  And if you trade away the farm for Watson, he's not going to do any better (and probably much worse, because those Falcons and Panthers teams were pretty talented). 

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1 hour ago, Rhom said:

I'm also not keen on the second part of the discussion where the Niners move up that high for Zach Wilson.

Yeah I don't want the Niners giving up that much to draft any of the three QBs (Wilson, Fields, or Lance).

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So, I have been very quiet this year, mostly because I did not think I was adding much to the discussion and most people seemed to agree.  It was a rough year for the Pats, but I'd rather not speak ill of the dead.

Tom Brady, as if it needed to be repeated, is the greatest football player who has ever lived and likely the greatest professional athlete ever.  Brady has won at almost every stage of his career in a league that is highly competitive and established with a host of viable and talented "rivals" who are not, in fact, his rivals.  While his SB performance was pitch-perfect (200+ yards, 3TDs, 0 picks- his first Superbowl with 0 turnovers since 2007 v Giants), it was his mere PRECENSE on the Bucs that seemed to have catapulted that team to "flash-in-the-pan" to "Champions."  Arians has told the story of how he had been telling his WRs to "pump their arms" when they come out f the their route so as to cue the QB that they are open.  HE said they would never do it.

Brady shows up, first practice, tells the WRs to "pump their arms" when coming out of their route so he can see them.... they do it immediately.  

Remember a long long long time ago when the Pats signed Antonio Brown?  Brown may or may not have sexually assaulted a woman.  He also acted like a pseudo terrorist against another woman who he owed money to.  Because of that the Pats were scored by the entire league for signing that horrible person Antonio Brown, the Pats released him after one game.  Brown was a pariah; and was to be exiled by the ENTIRE LEAGUE!  HOW DARE the Patriots not know this!!!  

And because of that  Antonio Brown was forever banished from the league, never to play football again because the media and the fans are very VERY consistent about these issues...

NAH!  I'm fucking with you!  Brown played on the Bucs and the caught a TD in the Superbowl.  Nobody gave a shit!  Nobopdy really vcare.  They just hated the Pats.  PLay for the Pats?  SHAME!  Play for the Bucs?  Meh... Because the media and the fans are horrible hypocrites!  

But my point?  Oh.. yeah... that... ah... Arians didn't want Brown on the team.  Brady did. 

Gronk.  Gronk was retire.  Brady wanted him on the team.

Brady's three TDs?  2 to Gronk and the other to Brown.  

By all indications, Brady ran much of the offense for the whole season, something he had been denied in NE.  The results speak for themselves.  

 

IIRC, Tom Brady is currently 4th all time in "Playoff Wins Against NFC Teams."  Let that stupidity sink in for a second.  

Since 2003, four teams have won the Superbowl and gone back to defend that title the next season - 2004 Pats, 2014 Seahawks, 2017 Pats and 2020 Chiefs.  All those teams were either QB's by Tom Brady or defeated in the Superbowl by Tom Brady. 

Tom Brady has ONE NFC Superbowl Win.  As many as: Aaron Rodgers, Drew Breese, Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Russel Wilson.  He has been in the NFC for like 9 months.  

 

Many Pats fans were rooting against Brady.  I could not do it.  The man brought far too much joy and happiness to my life over the last ... wait for it ... twenty years.  I was rooting for him as a surrogate to this horrid 2020 Pats season (we had a QB who short-hopped his passes... I wish I were making that up).  For the Pats, it really is "Wait Until Last Year" as there appears to be no end to our suffering at the QB slot.  Maybe Belichick's greatest sin is not merely allowing Brady to walk but in not having ANY plan for what to do after he was gone.  

And what's worse- how many QBs could have brought this Pats team to the Superbowl?  Dare I say... zero?  I don't think this team was one QB away.  

But then answer THIS - how many teams do you think would have won the Superbowl had Tom Brady been their QB?  I think we could name ten easy.  

 

For me, the moment of the playoffs was immediately after the Bucs defeated the Packers.  And Rodgers and Brady meet at the center of the field and Rodgers did this sort of "half hug, half 'try-to-walk-away'" thing.  And it was the LOOK on Rodgers' eyes- that dead-eyed, hollow, worn out look that said "I am doing THIS again..."  Ask any non-football or just casual football fans how many championships Aaron Rodgers has or how many Superbowls he ahs been to.  I BET you would get more than a handful of people to say "Two or three."  He's been to ONE!  And yet he is considered one f the greatest QBs of his era.  

Tom Brady ahs been to 10 and won 7.  You know you are good when you have to measure your rings in "Infinity Gauntlets."  

 

And this is seeping into other QBs; Russel Wilson has already started to grumble about getting out of Seattle and there may be a trend for the NFL to be more like the NBA - where QBs can decide where they play and not be tied to terrible organizations, bad contracts or worse, something named "Daniel Snyder."  

I rooted for Brady but I know how empty that is.  The Patriots have LOADS of cap space - ~$68 million which is around 3rd most in the NFL - and have a few players who will be back from COVID layoff.  And Bill Belichick is the greatest coach who ever lived.  But deep down inside, there is that realization that we are lying if we think we can right this ship.  For EONS we heard about the "Patriot Way" and how the Pats had guys who "played he game the right way."  But the truth?  The truth was that the Patriots Way was whatever Tom Brady did.  

And I am living in the cold shadow of that reality... 

 

 

Oh, and the Chiefs O-Line is to blame... 

 

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Dawg. The Patriots had a moderately bad year. Y'all are fucking tripping over there. They had the most Covid opt outs in the league, fuck all for cap space, and lost the greatest QB who ever lived. Give em one fucking year, playa. This season they've got lots of cap room and a moderately useful pick.

I say bring back Cam, but one of these WRs need to be brought in through FA. Something you silly fucking gooses seem to keep forgetting (straight up, as we were leaving the Pats-titans one of you fucking townies was mantalking at me about how Tommy was washed and Julian -goddamn- Edelman was a Hall of Famer) is that the offense was so talent poor that it weighs down the QB's performance. Idiot stupid headed morons with jizz (autocorrect tried to change jizz to 'kids', as if to suggest something but I ain't never taked no shit from no computer no how) for brains thought - and remember, people actually said this- that Brady couldn't play no more! That he didn't throw deep and couldn't hit receivers in stride. Nevermind that the receivers in questions were more suited to truck stop glory hole duties than NFL receiving work. Nevermind that BEN WATSON. - A man who once ran down Champ Bailey in his prime in 2005!- was maybe his go-to option in the playoffs. 

Cam had even less to work with last year. Give him a break. He's cheap, they can draft a nice defender who isn't from Temple for once. Maybe sign a lineman and a WR (TY Hilton won't break the bank) and see what you can cook up. The Bills aren't as great as folks are making them out to be. They're favorites in the division, sure. But they have gaping problems on their roster and sometimes a QB's performance varies a little from season to season. Let's hold off on anointing them kings of the East for now. 

Eh, rant over. 

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I agree- I sometimes am a little over-the-top.

But I cringe at another year with Cam.  He was horrid.  In passer rating, he was 28th, one above Nick Foles and behind Tua Tagovailoa and Nick Mullens; none of those started anywhere close to 16 games (Cam started 15).  He was DEAD LAST in yards/game and 20th in yards/att.  He was horrible,  I do not want him again.  

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I mean, Can is probably washed, but look he was throwing to.  The New England skill position players are a who's who of busts and nobodies.  

And it's not like you can trust them to draft well in that regard.  The last receiver they drafted who actually turned into anything was a quarterback in college drafted in the seventh round and is currently 34, and they picked Sony Michel, who is about a year away from being on a practice squad, in the first round over Nick Chubb, who will probably be a Hall of Famer if he has a reasonably long career.

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17 minutes ago, briantw said:

I mean, Can is probably washed, but look he was throwing to.  The New England skill position players are a who's who of busts and nobodies.  

And it's not like you can trust them to draft well in that regard.  The last receiver they drafted who actually turned into anything was a quarterback in college drafted in the seventh round and is currently 34, and they picked Sony Michel, who is about a year away from being on a practice squad, in the first round over Nick Chubb, who will probably be a Hall of Famer if he has a reasonably long career.

Not to quibble too much with the accurate assessment that Belichick sucks at drafting receivers, but Malcolm Mitchell, drafted in 2016, was productive and earned Brady's trust right away, which is unheard of. He contributed mightily in the Falcons Super Bowl, caught five passes, all for first downs, in the fourth quarter.

Then his bum knee gave out and he never played again. I guess that's what you get for bargain shopping for injured college players. Sometimes it gets you Gronk, but usually it gets you a guy who can't stay healthy. I was bummed, I really liked him.

Sony Michel was the wrong choice, but even more egregious is N'Keal Harry, a first round bust, when something like the next five WRs picked after him turned out to be good.

It's not that Belichick refused to get Brady weapons, it's that his choices (whether drafting busts in the first round or giving up a second for the ghost of Mo Sanu) sucked.

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I just think it's funny New England was the one team Stafford didn't want to go to. 

Cam, like other's have said, looked good at the start of season despite having no offseason or preseason to tune up. Given the lack of options, Cam is probably you're best bet. Either he turns it around or he's legit washed and then you should get a good draft pick.

Or you can believe the last rumor that Wilson wants out, and then god knows what you'd have to trade to get him. 

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Winningest Quarterback. Most Successful Quarterback. Greatest player of all time? Greatest athlete of all time? GTFO

Frankly, I think any definition of the latter two is so ill defined and subject to MANY biases that it's essentially pointless. Among the greats? Sure, whatever, who fucking cares.

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3 minutes ago, Week said:

Greatest athlete of all time? GTFO

Everyone knows the greatest athlete of all-time looks like this.

Brady is the greatest winner and thus the GOAT in football, but he's not even the five most talented at his position. Stop with the talk that he's the greatest athlete ever. Honestly I feel like only track and field and swimming are sports where you can actually gauge who the best ever is. 

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10 minutes ago, briantw said:

I mean, Can is probably washed, but look he was throwing to.  The New England skill position players are a who's who of busts and nobodies.  

And it's not like you can trust them to draft well in that regard.  The last receiver they drafted who actually turned into anything was a quarterback in college drafted in the seventh round and is currently 34, and they picked Sony Michel, who is about a year away from being on a practice squad, in the first round over Nick Chubb, who will probably be a Hall of Famer if he has a reasonably long career.

You get no argument here that the Pats' drafting has been horrid these last... forever.  Belichieck sucks at drafting offensive-impacting players.  Sony Michel is just one; N'Keal Harry over DK Metcalf is another bad move.  And the Pats are likely to spend some money this off season, but they will need to do it with somebody else under center.  

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