UK Politics: Oh Ambassador you are really spoiling us!

[Heartofice]

The title in reference to the greatest most iconic advert of all time.

But also in reference to the EU ambassadorial row that ended the last thread.

My two cents is the whole thing is pretty funny. It is a bit of a two fingers up to the EU, which is maybe a little bit much, but at the same time, the EU insists it is not a not a country.. yet wants to be treated as if it is a country in almost every other way, with a flag, parliament and anthem and ambassadors.

I thought the EU was just an international body during the referendum, but Michel Barnier is saying that the EU is not just an international body.

I do wonder if they did serve up Ferrero Rochers at those meetings though. Might have to be Cadburys Creme Eggs instead these days.

[Spockydog]

Oh, FFS man. Fucking grow a pair. Tell Biden what you really think of him.

He's like an actual Spitting Image puppet.

I still can't believe people actually voted for this idiot.

[Heartofice]

Is Joe Biden woke? What a question.

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

The title in reference to the greatest most iconic advert of all time.

But also in reference to the EU ambassadorial row that ended the last thread.

My two cents is the whole thing is pretty funny. It is a bit of a two fingers up to the EU, which is maybe a little bit much, but at the same time, the EU insists it is not a not a country.. yet wants to be treated as if it is a country in almost every other way, with a flag, parliament and anthem and ambassadors.

I thought the EU was just an international body during the referendum, but Michel Barnier is saying that the EU is not just an international body.

I do wonder if they did serve up Ferrero Rochers at those meetings though. Might have to be Cadburys Creme Eggs instead these days.

I suppose that the EU wants to be treated as the UN would be treated,

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, maarsen said:

I suppose that the EU wants to be treated as the UN would be treated,

In what way?

[Which Tyler]

I think the EU wants to be treated the way almost every other country treats the EU.

The denial is pure pettiness (it's a "fuck you" message, pure and simple), mostly designed to generate glee from the Daily Mail and condemnation from the Guardian; and distract from... probably Priti Patel launching her first skirmish in the bid to be next "Dear Leader".

 

Oh yes, there may also be an element of reacting to Biden's talk about putting the recent past behind us, being less aggressive, and starting a healing process.

Biden: "We will repair our alliances"
Johnson: "We bloody won't!"

[JoannaL]

1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

I think the EU wants to be treated the way almost every other country treats the EU.

The denial is pure pettiness, mostly designed to generate glee from the Daily Mail and condemnation from the Guardian; and distract from... probably Priti Patel launching her first skirmish in the bid to be next "Dear Leader"

from The Guardian

"Although the UK insists its position is not born of Euroscepticism, the UK is virtually unique in taking this position. The bloc enjoys full diplomatic status with 142 other countries around the world where it has delegations, and where its ambassadors are all granted the same status as diplomats representing sovereign nations."

also

"EU officials have privately accused the Foreign Office of hypocrisy because when the EU’s foreign service – known as the External Action Service – was set up in 2010 as a result of the Lisbon treaty, the UK signed up to proposals that EU diplomats be granted the “privileges and immunities equivalent to those referred to in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 18 April 1961”.

also

"Lord Adonis, a strongly pro-European Labour peer, said: “Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab have decided not just to leave the EU but to insult it – denying full diplomatic status to the EU ambassador being the latest insult. Very unwise."

[Raja]

Still waiting for her to tell me what 'counter terrorism offenders' means, tbh

 

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

In what way?

Ok, I see you amended your OP. You first suggested the EU was like NATO, right? Is that what you really think? The EU is like NATO?

[Varysblackfyre321]

https://www.ft.com/content/e8a781ca-449a-4dfc-befc-389c30ec2d14
Biden has removed a Churchill bust from the Oval Office.

I pretty sure this may be a grey area in terms of where it should go so I’m putting it here.

Also I found Boris Johnson’s reaction to Obama doing something similar interesting.

Quote

“Some said it was a snub to Britain. Some said it was a symbol of the part-Kenyan president's ancestral dislike of the British empire — of which Churchill had been such a fervent defender.” Mr Biden was Mr Obama’s vice-president.

Some say this is further evidence that Johnson is a racist chud.

And it may be. 

But I’d guess if Biden had been president in 2016 Johnson would have said “some say it was a symbol of Biden’s Irish blood dislike of the British.”

Maybe.

Though I don’t think that would have landed quite as well.

The larger goal of it was to get the readers’ xenophobia and racism hyped up to be open for his argument for Brexit.

He seems to be showing more tact now though when he’s Prime minister of a more US reliant U.K

[Heartofice]

Government could pay £500 to anyone with a positive Covid test

Hmm I wonder what the best way to encourage people to go out and catch the virus is? How about we pay them to do it? 

[Padraig]

7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

My two cents is the whole thing is pretty funny. It is a bit of a two fingers up to the EU, which is maybe a little bit much, but at the same time, the EU insists it is not a not a country.. yet wants to be treated as if it is a country in almost every other way, with a flag, parliament and anthem and ambassadors.

Trump did the same thing a few years ago.  Classy then.  Classy now.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu/us-returns-higher-diplomatic-status-to-eus-washington-mission-idUSKCN1QL177

The only funny part is that the best and brightest in the UK government can't figure out what the EU is.

[The Anti-Targ]

You grant the EU Ambassador diplomatic status because the EU is an entity you just signed a friggen substantial, though not comprehensive, treaty-level trade agreement with and you want to have ongoing, beneficial TO THE FRIGGEN UK, trade and political relations. It really doesn't matter what the EU is.

It's petty, pathetic and childish, which is only funny because hopefully the EU is a bit more mature and doesn't do anything in response, other than wait patiently for the UK govt to stop being a dick about it. 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Government could pay £500 to anyone with a positive Covid test

Hmm I wonder what the best way to encourage people to go out and catch the virus is? How about we pay them to do it? 

Not paying people, the current approach, is encouraging people to spread the virus.

And honestly, no, people are not going to deliberately catch a potentially fatal virus and sit at home alone while feeling like shit for two weeks for a measly £500. That's just silly talk. This isn't the Daily Mail comment section.

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, mormont said:

Not paying people, the current approach, is encouraging people to spread the virus.

And honestly, no, people are not going to deliberately catch a potentially fatal virus and sit at home alone while feeling like shit for two weeks for a measly £500. That's just silly talk. This isn't the Daily Mail comment section.

We’re already in a situation where people are going about their daily lives, going to parties etc as if the virus didn’t exist. Aren’t there about 100 posts by you laughing at the concept of ‘British common sense’? You genuinely don’t think there won’t be quite a few young people ( for whom the virus is very unlikely to have any ill effects) who will jump at the chance of a few quid and all they have to do is have a ‘Covid party’

 

12 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

You grant the EU Ambassador diplomatic status because the EU is an entity you just signed a friggen substantial, though not comprehensive, treaty-level trade agreement with and you want to have ongoing, beneficial TO THE FRIGGEN UK, trade and political relations. It really doesn't matter what the EU is.

It's petty, pathetic and childish, which is only funny because hopefully the EU is a bit more mature and doesn't do anything in response, other than wait patiently for the UK govt to stop being a dick about it. 

It is just very illuminating as to how the EU views itself. Clearly it really does see itself as a country. In which case good job we left.

[mormont]

13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

We’re already in a situation where people are going about their daily lives, going to parties etc as if the virus didn’t exist. Aren’t there about 100 posts by you laughing at the concept of ‘British common sense’?

Not sure what point you're making here, but it appears to be a very weak one.

I have scoffed, and will continue to scoff, at the idea that Government policy should be to rely on woolly appeals to 'common sense'. But this is the reverse: a specific policy to provide a specific solution to address a specific problem: that very few people with symptoms are getting tested, and the information we have suggests that this is often because they are economically unable to self-isolate.

Quote

You genuinely don’t think there won’t be quite a few young people ( for whom the virus is very unlikely to have any ill effects) who will jump at the chance of a few quid and all they have to do is have a ‘Covid party’

And then take two weeks off work and live in isolation while they suffer symptoms to a degree they can't predict.

Young people are of course more prone to indulge in risky behaviour - that's a known fact. However, my own experience (over two decades working with young people) and my experience of working with them throughout this pandemic suggests to me that few would voluntarily make themselves sick for £500. That doesn't even replace two weeks' wages at minimum wage, which is what they'll lose.

ETA - it's also worth pointing out that, even if I were wrong about this point, the situation at the moment (17% of those with symptoms getting tested) clearly must be addressed somehow. Even if one person were to deliberately catch the virus in order to get this payment, that would be more than offset by one person getting tested who wouldn't have done so without the payment, because they'll both now be isolating instead of spreading the virus.

Something has to be done to address this issue. I usually hate to say it, but in this case I think it has to be said - do you have a better suggestion?

[Varysblackfyre321]

24 minutes ago, mormont said:

Not paying people, the current approach, is encouraging people to spread the virus.

And honestly, no, people are not going to deliberately catch a potentially fatal virus and sit at home alone while feeling like shit for two weeks for a measly £500. That's just silly talk. This isn't the Daily Mail comment section.

You know this is kinda like saying disability and sickness benefits would get a lot of people  to cripple or blind themselves.

Yeah, some may do that.

The overwhelmingly won’t.

[ants]

53 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It is just very illuminating as to how the EU views itself. Clearly it really does see itself as a country. In which case good job we left.

Your logic is flawed.  You've taken an action (they want their ambassadors treated like diplomats) and then overlaid that with your own assumption on why they want that (that they see themselves as a country).  There is no factual basis for making that deduction.

Two alternative ones could simply be:

• Every man, her dog, or company would want the same, except the EU has the power to request it and get it; or
• That they see themselves as acting for a host of countries with those countries delegating them power to negotiate/act on their behalf in many ways (such as trade), and therefore as an extension of that and just for convenience they expect to be treated as diplomats.  

Both of those are pure speculation ... which is what you've done.  But they're equally as valid.  The second seems the most logical of the three. 

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Something has to be done to address this issue. I usually hate to say it, but in this case I think it has to be said - do you have a better suggestion?

UBI?

As well as helping in the fight to control Covid, it would solve an awful lot of societal issues (and, yes, HoI, before you start, I realise it's not a panacea).

It's certainly an idea that appears to be gaining traction around the world. Will Boris see the opportunity it presents? Not only for the country, but for his own personal legacy.

 

 

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

 

Something has to be done to address this issue. I usually hate to say it, but in this case I think it has to be said - do you have a better suggestion?

Hire everyone not in an essential job on a short term govt contract to do a new govt job, the job title is "stay the hell at home" and that is also the job description. Pay the same wage / salary as you were getting at your regular job. Aside from going out for essential reasons (food, health care, once per day socially distanced outdoor exercise), if you are caught not doing your job then you get a pay deduction for the week.

Personally I am opposed to UBI because it pointlessly gives money to people who don't need it, which inflates the govt's spending beyond what is necessary. A UMI, which can be set at a higher livable rate than a UBI I can get behind.

Put a UMI in place that is set at a living wage, and implement a penalty tax on any business that does not pay that to its employees. If you do that, then companies can have the freedom of not having a minimum wage, having zero hour contracts, and 90-day trial periods, all they need to do is convince people that those under-employment conditions are better than having the freedom to do the things you enjoy when you want to do them and getting the UMI anyway.