US Politics - It's a new dawn. It's a new day. It's a new life for US

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

12 hours ago, Myshkin said:

It’s less about the button and more about the Diet Coke. Rich guys will rich guy, but Diet Coke? Gross. If the button was for uncut cocaine, or gold dusted caviar, or pearls dissolved in vinegar, I’d just shrug and say, yep, that sounds about right. But using the button for Diet Coke is like owning a steakhouse and ordering the aged porterhouse well done with ketchup.

Trump likes Steak well done... with ketchup.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eater.com/platform/amp/2017/2/27/14748346/donald-trump-ketchup-steak

[Centrist Simon Steele]

 

Man, my fellow centrists on this board really can't quit stop talking about Bernie Sanders. Secret Bernie Bros in hiding, I think, who will make Biden's re-election campaign a damn near impossibility. Newsflash smart people: your memes of Bernie are only endearing him and making him stronger, and if our neo-liberal vision is to remain whole, Bernie has to fade into obscurity. DO.YOUR.PART.

On 1/21/2021 at 2:52 PM, The Great Unwashed said:

I think it’s pretty simple what @GrimTuesday is saying: Democrats need to use their power, and wasting time trying to get Republicans on board, or not getting anything actually passed except 2 reconciliation bills means Democrats will lose their Congressional majorities in 2 years.

Both Josh Marshall and Ezra Klein made the exact same arguments today (paywalls on both), so I don’t get why everyone is acting like @GrimTuesday is making an incoherent argument. If Manchin refuses to abolish the filibuster even after seeing what Republican obstructionism will be like, then Democrats obviously won’t have learned the lessons of Obama’s presidency, which would be fucking idiotic and which Democrats would deserve to lose when they’re up for election next. 

 

It seemed pretty clear to me. Plus, Mitch McConnell is fighting hard against any attempts for the filibuster to be ended which tells me it isn't such an impossibility as some board experts would have you believe.

On 1/22/2021 at 10:09 AM, Fury Resurrected said:

“She was not a criminal”- person shot while attempting to overthrow the government

”criminal like George Floyd” - guy who bought soda with what a cashier suspected MAY have been a fake $20 bill

I really don't believe these people can truly see the disparity in what they're saying and reality. But as a woman crawls through a hole in a door (I think, I can't watch videos like that for whatever reason) barricaded by an armed cop, versus a man who might have used a fake 20 (and aside from the fact even if it was fake, he may have had no clue and come by someone else's dishonesty, honestly)--the fact these people can't see the difference tells you we're in for a long, bumpy road to fixing the rotten core of this country. Most of the "evil" of these people comes from pure stupidity.

 

[Mindwalker]

@Centrist Simon Steele, we will not fall for your secret Centrist plot to "cutify" Bernie like a teddybear or an endearing grumpy grandpa to render him politically powerless and irrelevant!

[Week]

18 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I really don't believe these people can truly see the disparity in what they're saying and reality. But as a woman crawls through a hole in a door (I think, I can't watch videos like that for whatever reason) barricaded by an armed cop, versus a man who might have used a fake 20 (and aside from the fact even if it was fake, he may have had no clue and come by someone else's dishonesty, honestly)--the fact these people can't see the difference tells you we're in for a long, bumpy road to fixing the rotten core of this country. Most of the "evil" of these people comes from pure stupidity.

They don't care about the difference. Black and brown lives do not matter. The hypocrisy is irrelevant because the underlying argument is -- black and brown people deserve it and own the libs. That is the ethos of the Right and anyone making that argument.

[DMC]

26 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Newsflash smart people: your memes of Bernie are only endearing him and making him stronger, and if our neo-liberal vision is to remain whole, Bernie has to fade into obscurity. DO.YOUR.PART.

It's kinda hard to parse these days what you're actually saying and what you're saying just to try to be ironic/clever, but to be clear I don't think the Bernie memes are meant with any ill intent, and they are indeed endearing.  Those mittens are awesome and deserve all the memes in the world.

28 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Plus, Mitch McConnell is fighting hard against any attempts for the filibuster to be ended which tells me it isn't such an impossibility as some board experts would have you believe.

Dick Durbin explained this pretty succinctly:

Quote

"We’re not going to give him what he wishes. If you did that then there would be just unbridled use of it. I mean nothing holding him back," said Sen. Dick Durbin (Ill.), the No. 2 Senate Democrat, on Thursday.

 

[Mindwalker]

 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

57 minutes ago, Week said:

They don't care about the difference. Black and brown lives do not matter. The hypocrisy is irrelevant because the underlying argument is -- black and brown people deserve it and own the libs. That is the ethos of the Right and anyone making that argument.

I agree with nearly all of this--but I don't know if they see that this is about black and brown people (though it clearly is). They can't acknowledge that their anger against black and brown people is precisely due to the fact that those are people of color. They have a lot of other reasons, they'll argue, and I think they believe those reasons. However, I don't think it would take a ton of introspection for them to realize what is obvious to the rest of us.

55 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

IMO, Ashli Babbitt was a criminal. Despite a previous criminal record, she was actively, with intent, committing a criminal act of trying to overthrow the US government.

George Floyd had a previous criminal record, but he had done his sentence and paid his debt to society. He probably had no intention of passing a fake $20 (as has been noted, most people don’t have any idea when this happens).

IMO, Babbitt 100% deserved to get shot.
George Floyd maybe should have just had to hand back the pack of cigarettes or pay for them with a different $20.

I think she is/was a criminal too, though I suppose we diverge on her deserving to get shot. She stormed the capital, she was aggressive, posed a danger, and she was shot--there was no other option, but deserving of death is something I have trouble with the majority of the time. It was inevitable and justifiable that she was shot, but when things have collapsed for people so much that the result is they storm the Capitol (and we can certainly argue about the causes that led to the insurrection)--I believe that the foundation of this country, the neglect of people of color and working people, was a long road that put her in that moment. 

Floyd's death is inarguably far more tragic and much more illustrative of the broken foundation the U.S. sits on. There was no justification for him dying--literally none. It was inevitable, sadly, because of the continued authoritative state forces stance on black men. 

But if this isn't clear to people martyring Babbitt--I don't know what steps to take to show those people how much they've let the hateful ideology of the Republican party become not the lens in which they view the world, but truly their natural eyesight.

I know I've posted this before, but Slavoj Zizek analyzes what this looks like by analyzing John Carpenter's sci-fi horror film They Live through a Marxist lens--if you or anyone is curious. (6 minute video--you'll need subtitles to understand Zizek). 

[Fury Resurrected]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

IMO, Ashli Babbitt was a criminal. Despite a previous criminal record, she was actively, with intent, committing a criminal act of trying to overthrow the US government.

George Floyd had a previous criminal record, but he had done his sentence and paid his debt to society. He probably had no intention of passing a fake $20 (as has been noted, most people don’t have any idea when this happens).

IMO, Babbitt 100% deserved to get shot.
George Floyd maybe should have just had to hand back the pack of cigarettes or pay for them with a different $20.

Also- it never came out whether that $20 was actually fake or not (and I think if it had been, we would have). All we know is the person running the register said they thought so, which isn’t evidence of intent, or even that it was an actual fake bill at all.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said:

and I think if it had been, we would have

Undoubtedly.

[Mindwalker]

I knew it.

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

35 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

 

According to the American right, Facism=Liberalism-Socialism. Thank you very much Jonah Golberg. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

This is a pretty common theme among the more idiotic right wingers, which is that National Socialists were socialists because its in the name, ergo WW2 in the European theater was fought to defeat socialism. Never mind that we paired up with communism to defeat its bargain-basement knock-off..

[SFDanny]

2 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

 

Man, my fellow centrists on this board really can't quit stop talking about Bernie Sanders. Secret Bernie Bros in hiding, I think, who will make Biden's re-election campaign a damn near impossibility. Newsflash smart people: your memes of Bernie are only endearing him and making him stronger, and if our neo-liberal vision is to remain whole, Bernie has to fade into obscurity. DO.YOUR.PART.

This really isn't really directed at you, Centrist Simon Steele, but seeing you bring the label of "neo-liberal" into discussion, may I take issue in its use? At least in this usage of the term? For the longest time it had a very specific meaning. It meant those who advocated going back to a classic "liberal" economic theory in the wake of Keynesian economic theory. Economists Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek were "neo-liberals." Ronald Reagan was a neo-liberal. It is not a label that truthfully applies to mainstream US Liberals or to US Liberalism. At least not since FDR. It is commonly used as a slur. Usually by those who don't think a liberal politician is "progressive" enough for their tastes.

For whatever reason you choose to use it, Simon Steele, I would only point out that using the slur isn't conducive to building strong alliances among people of different political views. As a device to narrow who is and is not acceptable to work with it is remarkably effective.

[broken one]

13 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

 European theater was fought to defeat socialism.

Judging by the results (position gained by USSR and spread of communism) it did not work very well

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Mindwalker said:

 

There were people who sought to destroy a socialist (okay, Communist) regime in World War 2. Those would be the Nazis.

 

34 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

According to the American right, Facism=Liberalism-Socialism. Thank you very much Jonah Golberg. 

Periodic reminder that the only reason anyone gives two tugs about what Jonah Goldberg has to say is because his mother encouraged Linda Tripp to secretly record Monica Lewinsky talking about Bill Clinton.

[DMC]

Some good news for the midterms - Arizona governor Doug Ducey commits to not run against Mark Kelly in 2022 in a fairly Shermanesque statement:

Quote

“I’m not running for the United States Senate. It’s a no. I’m 100 percent focused on being the governor of the state of Arizona,” he said in an interview with The New York Times that was published Saturday. “I’ve accepted the role as the chairman of the [Republican Governors Association]. So I’ve got a full-time job and then I’ve got a full-time job beyond that. And that’s what my focus is.” 

Still, it should be noted he's term limited in 2022 as governor, so this still may change.

[Maithanet]

17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Some good news for the midterms - Arizona governor Doug Ducey commits to not run against Mark Kelly in 2022 in a fairly Shermanesque statement:

Still, it should be noted he's term limited in 2022 as governor, so this still may change.

But if he was really thinking about it, presumably he would make a less definitive denial.  Saying it like this encourages other Republicans to commit to running, and indicates you don't want the job. Neither are helpful.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

This is a pretty common theme among the more idiotic right wingers, which is that National Socialists were socialists because its in the name, ergo WW2 in the European theater was fought to defeat socialism. Never mind that we paired up with communism to defeat its bargain-basement knock-off..

I once got into a "discussion" with a right wing co worker about whether fascism equals socialism that literally descended into "Yes it is", "No it isn't". I was awfully disappointed in myself. 

To those people who would say "It's got 'socialist' in the name", I would point out that both the former East Germany and the current north Korean regimes have "Democratic" in their names. Does this somehow discredit democracy? I would also point out that Hitler got into power in the first place by forming an alliance with German conservatives, not with German socialists.

58 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Periodic reminder that the only reason anyone gives two tugs about what Jonah Goldberg has to say is because his mother encouraged Linda Tripp to secretly record Monica Lewinsky talking about Bill Clinton.

Yeah, he's kind of disappeared since then, but that book of his was yuuuge at the time and a lot of wing nuts have been riffing on it ever since. If there was a "patient zero" for the insane discourse we're seeing today, the book "Liberal Fascism" might be it.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But if he was really thinking about it, presumably he would make a less definitive denial.  Saying it like this encourages other Republicans to commit to running, and indicates you don't want the job. Neither are helpful.

Agreed.  Plus with how expensive Senate campaigns are getting he'd have to start fundraising pretty soon.  Like I said, very good sign, just wanted to point out it'd hardly be unprecedented if he changed his mind (even with such a statement) - and his term expiring makes that a considerable possibility.

[Maithanet]

All else being equal I could imagine he'd rather run against Sinema than Kelly.  But all else is not equal, and 2022 could be a very good year to be a Republican running for senate.  2024 - who knows.