US Politics - It's a new dawn. It's a new day. It's a new life for US

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

QBees are worse than Flat Earthers.  They refuse to even believe what they actually see.  It’s like some bizarre version of group solipsism.

Different, but not necessarily worse, and both groups refuse to believe what they actually see. The troubling part about the Q movement is that it shows people will believe anything if it reinforces their hatred of liberals. 

[Fragile Bird]

Remember a while back, a few months ago, people in jail in California were found to be getting unemployment benefits through fraudulent means? Some people said look, another example of a badly run blue state, and others pooh-poohed the extent of the fraud?

I just heard on CNBC that so far the fraudulent payments add up to $11 B and another $20 B in payments look dubious. If that’s correct, no matter how big California is, $31 B is a chunk of money!

[Ormond]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

QBees are worse than Flat Earthers.  They refuse to even believe what they actually see.  It’s like some bizarre version of group solipsism.

There were always going to be some QAnon people who would come up with "grasping at straws" explanations like the "Rob Reiner directed inauguration". The problem is we don't really have data on what percentage of them are buying into this vs. other theories vs. have finally become disillusioned with the whole "Q" story. 

One of the first examples of something like this in American history were the Millerities, followers of a guy in the early 19th century who predicted the second coming of Christ would occur in October 1845. He had thousands of believers around the world, though heavily concentrated in upstate New York. When his prediction was disconfirmed, many followers sheepishly decided he'd been wrong, but there were also at least three major theories of why the prophecy didn't pan out that were popular among former Millerites -- one of which to some extent still exists today, having become part of the beginnings of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism

It will be quite interesting for sociologists and psychologists to see how the quick dissemination of information over the Internet will affect QAnon differently than past groups. Will it lead to a higher % accepting one single theory? Or will it do the opposite and allow even more different groups to develop out of many different theories explaining the disconfirmations?

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

51 minutes ago, Ormond said:

There were always going to be some QAnon people who would come up with "grasping at straws" explanations like the "Rob Reiner directed inauguration". The problem is we don't really have data on what percentage of them are buying into this vs. other theories vs. have finally become disillusioned with the whole "Q" story. 

One of the first examples of something like this in American history were the Millerities, followers of a guy in the early 19th century who predicted the second coming of Christ would occur in October 1845. He had thousands of believers around the world, though heavily concentrated in upstate New York. When his prediction was disconfirmed, many followers sheepishly decided he'd been wrong, but there were also at least three major theories of why the prophecy didn't pan out that were popular among former Millerites -- one of which to some extent still exists today, having become part of the beginnings of the Seventh Day Adventist denomination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerism

It will be quite interesting for sociologists and psychologists to see how the quick dissemination of information over the Internet will affect QAnon differently than past groups. Will it lead to a higher % accepting one single theory? Or will it do the opposite and allow even more different groups to develop out of many different theories explaining the disconfirmations?

 

 

I’m aware of the origins of the 7th Day Adventists.  This does have that feel with a much darker connotation.

[DMC]

10 hours ago, SFDanny said:

To your last sentence, I would only ask what is the problem with using the words you chose? "Liberals and leftists" seems to me perfectly fine, and it avoids the confusion and problems that the term "neo-liberal" causes.

Exactly.  The fact is, many people associate the neoliberal term with Hayek, Friedman, and the Chicago school, as well as Reagan and Thatcher.  It should come as no surprise that virtually everyone who identifies as "liberal" on a basic ideology item does not want to be associated with those people or their beliefs - and even find such a suggestion offensive.  This is why, as discussed earlier, it is indeed a slur.  Considering who and what the right habitually and falsely associates with prominent leftists/socialists/whatever for decades (if not centuries), I'd think there would be empathy for this and an understanding for why it's deliberately, and unfairly, provocative.

Further, even putting those names aside, as @larrytheimp was detailing, neoliberalism is often associated with America's imperialistic foreign policy, perpetuating global economic inequality, and sustaining the status quo of systemic racial injustice.  I am proud to identify as a liberal (and a social democrat for that matter), but I've been opposed to the policies that promote those things ever since I was politically aware - most prominently the Iraq War.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Bad blow for the House managers as only five Senate Republicans even acknowledged that the trial is constitutional. 

[Fragile Bird]

A Texas Federal court judge, appointed by Trump, has blocked Biden's order freezing deportations.

I assume that will be appealled immediately.

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

A Texas Federal court judge, appointed by Trump, has blocked Biden's order freezing deportations.

I assume that will be appealled immediately.

It's blocked pending a longer investigation, which is probably the right thing to do overall. As much as it sucks, we need to have these kinds of EOs that immediately break previous EOs be a bit slower in rollout regardless of who does them. 

 

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Bad blow for the House managers as only five Senate Republicans even acknowledged that the trial is constitutional. 

Yeah, McConnell is so good at edging me, but he never finishes me off

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So, what's the talk of quite a few of the last minute pardons being defective, and Bannon, Stone and Manafort possibly facing another day in court and several more in prison?

That would be highly amusing on a petty level, and extremely satisfying on every other level.

[The Anti-Targ]

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Different, but not necessarily worse, and both groups refuse to believe what they actually see. The troubling part about the Q movement is that it shows people will believe anything if it reinforces their hatred of liberals. 

Interesting that the Goodkind's wizard's first rule appears to most commonly apply to those of his own ilk. Though I imagine he would disavow any association with Q-people I would think there are many among them who are as devoted to Ayn Rand as he was.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So, what's the talk of quite a few of the last minute pardons being defective, and Bannon, Stone and Manafort possibly facing another day in court and several more in prison?

That would be highly amusing on a petty level, and extremely satisfying on every other level.

It's probably bullshit. I mean, if someone really wanted to push on it they could, but I doubt anyone is going to spend the political capital to do that. 

It's looking more and more likely that pretty much anyone who did anything is just...gonna skate entirely. Facebook and Twitter are going to be the most punishing part of this entire thing. Congrats, US - you had a good Republic. Pity you couldn't keep it.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So, what's the talk of quite a few of the last minute pardons being defective, and Bannon, Stone and Manafort possibly facing another day in court and several more in prison?

That would be highly amusing on a petty level, and extremely satisfying on every other level.

I saw a Legal Eagle short video on Youtube about this. He said the pardons were for the specific crimes / charges they were convicted for / going to be facing in court. He said that often prosecutors do not charge people for all offences for which they could be charged, and for some of the people Trump pardoned there was a hung jury for some charges, and those hung jury charges were not included in the pardons. So there definitely seems to be scope for bringing charges for more or less the same criminal acts that skirt around the pardons, if Legal Eagle dude is to be believed.

Legal Eagle was supremely pissed off at the corruptness many of the pardons, so he is certainly motivated to want there to be ways to put those people in / back in jail. Whether that has influenced his views to become erroneous I will leave to people with some US criminal law experience.

[Kalbear]

It's funny that it looks more and more like we're going to get that libertarian dream of corporations dictating things like speech rights and employment rights and whatnot while the government increasingly just becomes the way to funnel money to corporations and use military force sometimes. It's remarkable how much the cyberpunk future got wrong, but in that they appear to be right on the money. No one imagined social media being quite so horrifying - most people thought of it as a way to give you tools to watch the things you wanted, not give you a fire hose to the things it wants to send you, but in retrospect that seems obvious as where they'd go with it. 

[Mindwalker]

So McConnell's blackmail has basically worked, right?

[Kalbear]

11 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

So McConnell's blackmail has basically worked, right?

Not particularly. It didn't do much of anything. Well, guess it depends on what blackmail you're talking about, but Sinema and Manchin were never particularly in favor of the filibuster going away. 

[Myshkin]

So uh, I guess Kellyanne Conway posted a topless picture of her 16 year old daughter to Twitter.

[Kalbear]

8 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

So uh, I guess Kellyanne Conway posted a topless picture of her 16 year old daughter to Twitter.

Yeah, I saw that. That's definitely going to set her back and make it so she can't run for a congress position in upstate New York and will have to settle for downstate New Jersey instead

[DMC]

8 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

So uh, I guess Kellyanne Conway posted a topless picture of her 16 year old daughter to Twitter.

Saw that on Drudge.  Do not want to click any of the links.  

[Mindwalker]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear Total Landscaping said:

Not particularly. It didn't do much of anything. Well, guess it depends on what blackmail you're talking about, but Sinema and Manchin were never particularly in favor of the filibuster going away. 

I know, but maybe it wasn't as clear-cut as we thought... He mst have had a reason for this whole stint, right?

[Kalbear]

7 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

I know, but maybe it wasn't as clear-cut as we thought... He mst have had a reason for this whole stint, right?

Audience of one.