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HBO Planning Dunk and Egg, Other Thrones-properties


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5 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

There’s also another problem: the family trees were trimmed so to speak in the show so that Aerion Brightflame was Maester Aemon’s only elder brother. Daeron the Drunk has a pivotal role, how will they fit Daeron back into the family tree?

Just ignore the family tree nonsense established in GoT.

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9 hours ago, Mithras said:

As I mentioned before, Daemon Blackfyre should not die at the First Blackfyre Rebellion but instead survive till the end of the show, leading the rest of the Blackfyre Rebellions as well. The audience would not be interested at all in his lame-ass sons and other descendants that led the later Blackfyre Rebellions. Bittersteel should be reduced to a side role and Daemon Blackfyre vs. Bloodraven dynamic should be promoted as something similar to Thor vs. Loki. This can carry the show until the end.

....you want Daemon Blackfyre to survive to be leading rebellions at age 70? And how the heck would the Second Blackfyre Rebellion plot even work out with the original Daemon still alive? That's silly.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Just ignore the family tree nonsense established in GoT.

The morons running the TV show "kinda forgot" about that and never mentioned it even by the final season, except for one line in Season 1 where Aemon says Rhaegar was his nephew. This is probably going to be a soft reboot anyway, but.....AT A CERTAIN POINT, we made the horrific realization that we were doing a better job of keeping track of their statements than the writers themselves.

Benioff & Weiss and Cogman never bothered to keep track of anything.  They said Aerys II was Aegon V's son not his grandson.  They also off-handedly mentioned a "Maegor the Third" without explanation.  They're con men faking their way through it who NEVER paid attention.  

We'd...WE would be the ones keeping "Aerys is the son of Egg" alive, FOR THEM, because it's not like Cogman himself put much effort into enforcing that.  Why perpetuate their own continuity errors that they NEVER bothered justifying? We sort of assume they did this to make Aemon closer to Aerys, but it came up so infrequently in dialogue...what was the point?  

And the insulting way Cogman handled this; even in direct Q&A, asked "is this an official change" he'd just respond with a blunt "yes"....without ELABORATING on WHY they did it.

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4 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I just checked the afterward in my copy, it says "they go to Essos" but don't mention them joining a sellsword company. What's that from?

From the fact that we do have a planned title of 'The Sellsword'. If they go to the shining towers of Essos then chances are very high they will also join up with a free company there, possibly even the Golden Company.

There aren't that many sellswords in Westeros ... or rather, not that many prominent sellswords. Basically Dunk is already a sellsword as a hedge knight, so the story where he is a sellsword should be one where he joins with a company.

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33 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

....you want Daemon Blackfyre to survive to be leading rebellions at age 70?

I didn't say that. All the Blackfyre Rebellions will take place from the first one at 196 to the last one around 210. Dunk & Egg will start after that.

33 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

And how the heck would the Second Blackfyre Rebellion plot even work out with the original Daemon still alive?

Obviously it won't. Either it will be completely discarded or certain changes will be made. The plot of gathering the old Blackfyre supporters for a tourney can still take place with Daemon Blackfyre secretly joining the lists as a Mystery Knight to win the dragon egg. After the attempt fails, Daemon might succeed in capturing the dragon egg and fleeing across the Narrow Sea where he sells the dragon egg to hire mercenary companies for a future war.

If you cannot stomach the idea of making even the slightest change to the source material, I have nothing to say to you.

Edited by Mithras
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3 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

Dunk and Egg is one of the easiest ASOIAF properties to invent new material for.  It can easily be the GOT equivalent of The Mandalorian, they are in no sense bound only to things implicit in the published material.

D&E started before the Blackfyre backstory existed. After the introduction of the Blackfyre backstory, D&E became increasingly intermingled with it. Now it seems highly implausible to think of a D&E story without some reference to the Blackfyre threat which will persist until after Egg's death. If you want to strictly follow the source material, all the later Blackfyre rebellions should be featured in the D&E show. But that brings a lot of problems. First of all, the first Blackfyre Rebellion would be out of the scope of this adaptation. That would require at least a full feature movie about the First Blackfyre Rebellion before this show starts. Second, introducing the later Blackfyre pretenders would cause loss of interest among the watchers, just like Ragnar's sons could not carry the show after Ragnar's death.

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I think you can transmit the Blackfyre Rebellion information solely through a D&E show. You don't need to do a Blackfyre Rebellion show and I doubt very much they will ever do one. If you have the Dance and you have the War of the Five Kings, then the next big project after that will be either Robert's Rebellion or the Conquest. Maybe you can do both. But at that point you're getting into absurd levels of repetition. In fact, widening out the D&E series to incorporate the Rebellions is probably the best way of doing that, and you could even do a prequel stand-alone movie spin-off about the First Rebellion and a coda one-off movie about the War of the Ninepenny Kings to really put a bow on it. But having D&E and a separate Blackfyre Rebellion show I think is a non-starter.

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12 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think you can transmit the Blackfyre Rebellion information solely through a D&E show. You don't need to do a Blackfyre Rebellion show and I doubt very much they will ever do one. If you have the Dance and you have the War of the Five Kings, then the next big project after that will be either Robert's Rebellion or the Conquest. Maybe you can do both. But at that point you're getting into absurd levels of repetition. In fact, widening out the D&E series to incorporate the Rebellions is probably the best way of doing that, and you could even do a prequel stand-alone movie spin-off about the First Rebellion and a coda one-off movie about the War of the Ninepenny Kings to really put a bow on it. But having D&E and a separate Blackfyre Rebellion show I think is a non-starter.

What you propose is something like Supernatural. For example, Third Blackfyre Rebellion will be the big conflict of a season that will be resolved in the season finale. But we will have many "trial by combat of the week" type episodes throughout the season. I am not sure this formula would work with D&E. 

I disagree about the repetition. Blackfyre Rebellion is a unique conflict. It is not a Dance of Dragons. It is not the Conquest. It is not Robert's Rebellion and it is not the War of the Five Kings. Had GRRM kept it contained to the lifetime of a single Daemon Blackfyre as mentioned upthread, it would have offered the best story potential among these conflicts. But killing Daemon at the beginning and drawing out the conflict through his unremarkable descendants kind of killed the potential. Now there is the chance to fix this.

 

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18 hours ago, Mithras said:

D&E started before the Blackfyre backstory existed. After the introduction of the Blackfyre backstory, D&E became increasingly intermingled with it. Now it seems highly implausible to think of a D&E story without some reference to the Blackfyre threat which will persist until after Egg's death. If you want to strictly follow the source material, all the later Blackfyre rebellions should be featured in the D&E show. But that brings a lot of problems. First of all, the first Blackfyre Rebellion would be out of the scope of this adaptation. That would require at least a full feature movie about the First Blackfyre Rebellion before this show starts. Second, introducing the later Blackfyre pretenders would cause loss of interest among the watchers, just like Ragnar's sons could not carry the show after Ragnar's death.

I think you're over complicating things. The BF rebellion is just the Robert's Rebellion of ASOIAF, recent backstory for the current characters. Daemon, like Rhaegar, is best kept a dead man hated by some and beloved by others, who we learn about through them. Bittersteel is a much more interesting character in the first place. There's no real comparison with Ragnar, who was the central character, not to mention that had more to do with awful writing than anything. Not to say they couldn't tweak the timeline to have the BF rebellion occur during Dunk and Egg's time together, but I don't think that is a better story, or necessary.

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On 1/22/2021 at 4:24 AM, FictionIsntReal said:

I think HBO wishes that were the case, but he's exclusive to Netflix now and working on The Three Body Problem.

Why on Earth/Planetos would HBO wish that?! You think they really want him to ruin another show based on GRRM's works? Netflix is stuck with him now.

Anyway - does anyone have any speculations and wishes about the casting?

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30 minutes ago, Annara Snow said:

Why on Earth/Planetos would HBO wish that?! You think they really want him to ruin another show based on GRRM's works? Netflix is stuck with him now.

Anyway - does anyone have any speculations and wishes about the casting?

Maybe because they took a book series that the author himself considered to be “unfilmable” and turned it into the most successful television series in history. At the end of the day, money is all HBO cares about, and D&D have proven to be money-making machines. Netflix is lucky to have them.

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56 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Maybe because they took a book series that the author himself considered to be “unfilmable” and turned it into the most successful television series in history. At the end of the day, money is all HBO cares about, and D&D have proven to be money-making machines. Netflix is lucky to have them.

Yep, Benioff and Weiss have been in such a hot demand after the GoT ended. That's why the Star Wars franchise is so happy to have them,... oh wait.

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16 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think you can transmit the Blackfyre Rebellion information solely through a D&E show. You don't need to do a Blackfyre Rebellion show and I doubt very much they will ever do one. If you have the Dance and you have the War of the Five Kings, then the next big project after that will be either Robert's Rebellion or the Conquest. Maybe you can do both. But at that point you're getting into absurd levels of repetition. In fact, widening out the D&E series to incorporate the Rebellions is probably the best way of doing that, and you could even do a prequel stand-alone movie spin-off about the First Rebellion and a coda one-off movie about the War of the Ninepenny Kings to really put a bow on it. But having D&E and a separate Blackfyre Rebellion show I think is a non-starter.

The reason why I think Dunk & Egg could spawn a Blackfyre Rebellion show is that they do indeed have to build up the characters from that era for Dunk & Egg. We will get Maekar and Baelor for THK, we hear about Ser Arlan's involvement in the war, we will get Bloodraven and Bittersteel, and Eustace Osgrey, Lady Rohanne, and eventually Daemon II Blackfyre, Gormon Peake, and the other rebels.

A faithful adaptation especially of TSS has to go in great detail about this conflict, or else crucial story/character details will be missing.

I'd prefer it if they made it like George does it in TSS - meaning flashbacks and Eustace's voice-over, but there is certainly a chance that people might get hooked by that conflict and want more about that. And it would be more fun to get that than to spoil future Dunk & Egg stuff in the show.

3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I think you're over complicating things. The BF rebellion is just the Robert's Rebellion of ASOIAF, recent backstory for the current characters. Daemon, like Rhaegar, is best kept a dead man hated by some and beloved by others, who we learn about through them. Bittersteel is a much more interesting character in the first place. There's no real comparison with Ragnar, who was the central character, not to mention that had more to do with awful writing than anything. Not to say they couldn't tweak the timeline to have the BF rebellion occur during Dunk and Egg's time together, but I don't think that is a better story, or necessary.

I find the idea of Daemon Blackfyre having rebelled during the reign of Aerys I actually not that bad - I don't want that for show stuff, of course, but I'm wondering if he didn't destroy his 'Daeron the Good' by giving him this silly war. Prior to TSS Daeron II was basically a second Jaehaerys the Conciliator because he did not only fix his father's mess - like Jaehaerys fixed his uncle's - but also made himself immortal with the Dornish union.

If there had to be rebellions, then Daemon Blackfyre could have just done that later. But, of course, that wouldn't have given TSS the background George wanted for that story.

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