Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Westeros

HBO Planning Dunk and Egg, Other Thrones-properties

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

The earth being round is backed up by scientific facts, and that’s what I’m doing. Using facts to support my argument. You should try doing the same. All the facts I listed are concrete and clearly point to the final season being highly popular, and you can’t even begin to counter them.

It's like talking to a wall man. You'd be better off debating the wind. 

 

Sure season 8 could have been better. Sure the wriitng fell off. Yes, it needed more epeisodes to properly flesh out the story...I thught it was rushed which was my main gripe after the first 4 seasons did a great job with pace. But it was still damn entertaining and I thought season 8 was totally fine, especially the first 4 episodes. And I bought the blu ray. And I continue watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, of man and wolf said:

It's like talking to a wall man. You'd be better off debating the wind. 

 

Sure season 8 could have been better. Sure the wriitng fell off. Yes, it needed more epeisodes to properly flesh out the story...I thught it was rushed which was my main gripe after the first 4 seasons did a great job with pace. But it was still damn entertaining and I thought season 8 was totally fine, especially the first 4 episodes. And I bought the blu ray. And I continue watching.

I don’t even care if they disliked the final season (why would I?), I just don’t understand why they’re trying to demonize the showrunners. It’s like D&D personally offended them.

Edited by Dragon in the North

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't a thread to discuss the show, so I suggest you guys do that somewhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2021 at 7:28 PM, Dragon in the North said:

It’s only your opinion that there was a quality drop. What reports are you talking about? All the cast and crew had nothing but nice things to say about their working relationship with D&D. As for their talk in Austin, I think I know what you’re referring to, in which case there was nothing wrong with it. A Twitter user massively mischaracterized the things they said. A tape regarding the conference tells the real story.

https://watchersonthewall.com/benioff-weiss-reflect-decade-game-thrones-austin-film-festival/

They live in terror of Benioff and Weiss

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2021 at 7:28 PM, Dragon in the North said:

It’s only your opinion that there was a quality drop. What reports are you talking about? All the cast and crew had nothing but nice things to say about their working relationship with D&D. As for their talk in Austin, I think I know what you’re referring to, in which case there was nothing wrong with it. A Twitter user massively mischaracterized the things they said. A tape regarding the conference tells the real story.

https://watchersonthewall.com/benioff-weiss-reflect-decade-game-thrones-austin-film-festival/

....Watchers on the Wall are quislings, kissing up to Benioff and Weiss...and THEIR report on the Austin Film Fest panel is infamous THROUGHOUT fandom as actively redacting out the parts that made Benioff and Weiss look the worst. 

I made an HOUR LONG video picking apart, with CHARTS, how they'd just skip over 20 minutes here and there to avoid the worst quotes:
 

You're trusting Watchers On the Wall's REDACTED description of the audio recording?  I made clips of it, set to transcripted text, all in this playlist: 

 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

This isn't a thread to discuss the show, so I suggest you guys do that somewhere else.

Yes....getting back on topic here.....

I think that there are basically six prequel eras that they could, possibly, launch into immediately that don't overlap with each other.

That is....you can't make "Targaryen Conquest" and "Sons of the Dragon" at the same time, that would all be one long "Targaryen Conquest" show.

  1. Targaryen Conquest (Conquest, Dornish War, Sons of the Dragon)
  2. Dance of the Dragons (what House of the Dragon is doing) - the Regency would need to be a sequel show
  3. Blackfyre Rebellion ("the life of Aegon IV and its aftermath", starting with A - his father Viserys II's "reign" during the kingship of his cousins Daeron and Baelor, B - Aegon IV's Blackadder-like corrupt reign, C - the actual Blackfyre Rebellion)
  4. Tales of Dunk & Egg (a 50 year period covering the Second Blackfyre Rebellion, through the verge of the fifth one)
  5. Robert's Rebellion (possibly starting with "Young Tywin and the Reyne Rebellion" as a bridge between the two eras, then Robert's Rebellion, through Greyjoy Rebellion)
  6. Old Valyria (use this as a springboard to spinoff other stuff from the World book about the Free Cities, Dothraki, Summer Isles, Yi Ti, etc.)

The long reign of Jaehaerys doesn't have enough action for a TV show and has too many timeskips; maybe as a direct sequel to a "Targaryen Conquest" show if it's popular enough. I hope we see that as an animated bonus packed with House of the Dragon.

Regency/Aftermath needs to be a sequel series to Dance of the Dragons.

"Young Tywin and the Reyne Rebellion" is a one shot one season thing; and it kind of makes more sense to do that as a lead-in to Robert's Rebellion (which is relatively short; combined we could get four seasons out of "Robert's Rebellion")

Targaryen Conquest and Blackfyre Rebellion would be great eventually, but for the moment there's just too much overlap with Dance of the Dragons.

Shows need a mix of either "audience familiarity", "exciting new stuff", and substantial source material.

Targaryen Conquest and the Dance of the Dragons have a little of each - general audiences would be familiar with the names, but it's got exciting new stuff, and decent amounts of source material.  They're SO similar though - Targaryens running around with dragons - that the Dance wins out over the Conquest due to having much more source material.

Blackfyre Rebellion, in contrast, isn't as familiar to a TV audience (they never mention the name "Blackfyre" in a live-action episode), it doesn't really have "exciting new stuff" - same locations but no dragons, and not nearly as much source material as Conquest or Dance. 

Dunk & Egg has full source material, the only narrativized prequel...for the first three instalments. Reasonably "familiar" as it's only 90 years out from Game of Thrones and older characters mention it. Not as many exotic locations, but deep source material and strong fanbase support balances that.

Robert's Rebellion has extreme audience familiarity....decent source material, albeit for a short series lasting at best 3 seasons...and not really exotic new locations.

Valyria is "exotic new locations", SOME name familiarity from the main series (Targaryens, dragons), but not much - it's hard to be both exotic and familiar, but that's an expected tradeoff...and only an outline of source material (mostly descriptions of the different Valyria provinces from the World book).  But stacking up say, Valyria vs Blackfyre Rebellion....Valyria is so "different" from the other five big prequel eras that it stands out.   

In short, the selling points and major cons:

  • Robert's Rebellion - audience familiarity
  • Dunk & Egg - extensive source material (to start with), decent audience familiarity
  • Dance of the Dragons - substantial source material, decent audience familiarity
  • Targaryen Conquest -  less source material than Dance, better audience familiarity, largely similar locations to Dance
  • Blackfyre Rebellion - scant source material, marginal general audience familiarity, no new locations
  • Valyria - exotic new locations, low source material or initial name recognition

So I don't think this new second wave of pitches will, or should, include Targaryen Conquest or Blackfyre Rebellion.  Save that for the third wave years from now.  Though I do hold out hope for this renewing interest in the Valyria pitch (one of the original five pitches)

Edited by The Dragon Demands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

....Watchers on the Wall are quislings, kissing up to Benioff and Weiss...and THEIR report on the Austin Film Fest panel is infamous THROUGHOUT fandom as actively redacting out the parts that made Benioff and Weiss look the worst. 

I made an HOUR LONG video picking apart, with CHARTS, how they'd just skip over 20 minutes here and there to avoid the worst quotes:
 

You're trusting Watchers On the Wall's REDACTED description of the audio recording?  I made clips of it, set to transcripted text, all in this playlist: 

 

Watchers on the Wall have way more journalistic integrity than you, it’s not even close. Like I said, there’s an entire tape that disproves what the lying Twitter user said. It is beyond dispute, though you’re such a partisan hack you’re going to try desperately to disprove it anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

They live in terror of Benioff and Weiss

 

 

Lol, sure, because Benioff and Weiss are such scary people. I’ve seen enough of your videos to know that they carry very little factual information. Your credibility is shot to hell. You should give it a rest already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

Watchers on the Wall have way more journalistic integrity than you, it’s not even close. Like I said, there’s an entire tape that disproves what the lying Twitter user said. It is beyond dispute, though you’re such a partisan hack you’re going to try desperately to disprove it anyway.

I saved a copy of that audio recording. I'll send it to you if you want. Their text-based report redacted out the worst of it.

But this is getting off topic.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I saved a copy of that audio recording. I'll send it to you if you want. Their text-based report redacted out the worst of it.

Please do.

 

11 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

But this is getting off topic.

True, but that might have something to do with some of you trying to turn this into another D&D bashing thread rather than focusing on the upcoming Dunk and Egg adaptation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I want to steer back to prequel discussion.

Give me your e-mail so I can send it to you. It is 67 MB.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 3:55 PM, Lord Varys said:

And if that's done right then this could be the springboard for a Blackfyre Rebellion series, because to work Dunk & Egg has to establish the setting right, and give us detailed information on the era and the background of the people who show up - especially for Bloodraven and the second Daemon Blackfyre.

Really not interested in a Robert's Rebellion TV show, though.

That's too close to ASoIaF and will just trigger too many bad GoT memories.

This indicates that HBO is really pushing for George's stuff to become a working franchise ... especially since George opposed the idea of a Robert's Rebellion show or Dunk & Egg at a time before he has finished their story.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing ... if you remember what GoT became.

In my humble opinion...Blackfyre Rebellion would be BADASS. Such good material to work with, especially when you consider that the lines of each character in that setting are open for debate, and not already pre-scripted by GRRM. If the potential series attracts great writers, then it could be pretty darn solid. Of course Baelor Breakspeare will come out smelling of roses in the end, but the "in-between stuff" will be a surprise. 

Edited by KingMaekarWasHere
added info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

In my humble opinion...Blackfyre Rebellion would be BADASS. Such good material to work with, especially when you consider that the lines of each character in that setting are open for debate, and not already pre-scripted by GRRM. If the potential series attracts great writers, then it could be pretty darn solid. Of course Baelor Breakspeare will come out smelling of roses in the end, but the "in-between stuff" will be a surprise. 

Content-wise the Blackfyre Rebellion is another pointless succession/civil war. We don't really need that, just as we don't need a Robert's Rebellion show.

However, if Dunk & Egg were a success there is chance that it might make sense to do that eventually. Not because the plot is that great, but because people might really want to see more of Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Bloodraven, Arlan of Pennytree, a younger Eustace Osgrey, etc.

This could be a way to sort of continue this project without directly continuing the Dunk & Egg stories into unchartered territory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather they make 1h 30 min movies about some of the places on the planet that have so far remained unexplored. Not only would it allow for creative freedom due to little known facts about some of those locations but it also allows for HBO to explore different genres. A lot of those places are said to have fantastical elements to it so HBO needn't worry about lack of GCI cashcows (monsters, dragons, basilisks etc) or magic.

You can make a horror movie out of something like Stygai. A horror/mystical movie out of Asshai. Or combine the two due to geographical closeness. So many places on the map that we know nothing about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Mystical. I want them to put more money into the animated "Histories and Lore" for House of the Dragon so they're not just (good) motion comics, but outright "high budget tie-in animated shorts" about different parts of the world, to sort of set them up as well as test the waters for future spinoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Content-wise the Blackfyre Rebellion is another pointless succession/civil war. We don't really need that, just as we don't need a Robert's Rebellion show.

However, if Dunk & Egg were a success there is chance that it might make sense to do that eventually. Not because the plot is that great, but because people might really want to see more of Baelor Breakspear, Maekar, Bloodraven, Arlan of Pennytree, a younger Eustace Osgrey, etc.

This could be a way to sort of continue this project without directly continuing the Dunk & Egg stories into unchartered territory.

The thing about the Blackfyre Rebellion that distinguishes it from other wars, was that it was a Targaryen civil war "without dragons." And the meaning behind the rebellion is still shrouded in mystery, even with TWOIAF. Was it started for love? Politics? Personal jealousy and hatred? I don't know, maybe I like the makings of the Blackfyre Rebellion because unconsciously I associated it with the English Wars of the Roses. I am admittedly a history buff, and 15th-16th century English/Scottish history has long interested me. I see the Blackfyres as being similar to the Beauforts, I see the mainline of the Targaryens under Daeron II as being similar to the House of York. Breakspeare being the embodiment of Edward IV, but more than likely Edward the Black Prince of Wales. But then again Robert Baratheon has been compared to King Edward IV of England multiple times, so maybe I'm spinning some wheels here. I just think that the Blackfyre rebellion has a great cast of characters that Robert's Rebellion did not have. Not much is that fascinating about a frail and paranoid Targaryen king like Aerys II to be honest. But Daeron II's family, they were like rockstars in their hayday. Well...at least Baelor, Aerys, and Maekar. (One strong, one smart, and one in between.) 

Edited by KingMaekarWasHere
added info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

The thing about the Blackfyre Rebellion that distinguishes it from other wars, was that it was a Targaryen civil war "without dragons." And the meaning behind the rebellion is still shrouded in mystery, even with TWOIAF. Was it started for love? Politics? Personal jealousy and hatred? I don't know, maybe I like the makings of the Blackfyre Rebellion because unconsciously I associated it with the English Wars of the Roses. I am admittedly a history buff, and 15th-16th century English/Scottish history has long interested me. I see the Blackfyres as being similar to the Beauforts, I see the mainline of the Targaryens under Daeron II as being similar to the House of York. Breakspeare being the embodiment of Edward IV, but more than likely Edward the Black Prince of Wales. But then again Robert Baratheon has been compared to King Edward IV of England multiple times, so maybe I'm spinning some wheels here. I just think that the Blackfyre rebellion has a great cast of characters that Robert's Rebellion did not have. Not much is that fascinating about a frail and paranoid Targaryen king like Aerys II to be honest. But Daeron II's family, they were like rockstars in their hayday. Well...at least Baelor, Aerys, and Maekar. (One strong, one smart, and one in between.) 

You can get your Targaryen civil war without dragons with Robert's Rebellion ... which is basically a war between the Lancaster Plantagenets Targaryens vs. the Yorkist Plantagenets Targaryens. Robert is not only like Edward IV because he is a young super warrior general but also (like Edward's father, Richard, Duke of York, who was the first Yorkist pretender to the crown) in the sense that he is descended from the Targaryens through the female line (and also like the Beauforts in the sense that the Baratheons themselves are, most likely, a bastard cadet branch of House Targaryen through Orys Baratheon).

The Blackfyre Rebellion is more like a genuine story George himself came up with. There is no parallel to that in medieval history that I know of where a bastard half-brother tried to usurp the throne of his trueborn brother after he had already been crowned and anointed and had a successful reign for 12 years.

And to actually show the roots of that war we would have to start with the late reign of Aegon IV, all the corruption and stuff, the giving of Blackfyre, the youth of the sons of Daeron II as well as the Great Bastards, the Dornish union, etc. That would be a pretty long project ... which could be pretty interesting in its own right. But I'm not sure if it would fit well if there was also a Robert's Rebellion show made. And to be sure, like with the Dance, the Blackfyre Rebellion has a very clear good guys vs. villains setting - Bittersteel is no good guy, Daemon Blackfyre is at best a tragic villain who is maneuvered into doing something stupid, and most of his followers are either straight out bad guys/men with wrong values or at best misled like Brienne was misled into following Renly.

There isn't that much potential for tragedy there. And the buildup should be very much like what we are soon going to get with Viserys I's reign in HoD.

Baelor Breakspear is a very interesting character I'd like to see more of, just as I'd really like to see Daeron II in greater detail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

See, how this goes is this: when people complain about a terrible ending, they have no option to stop watching that show, since it's ended. Instead, they decide not to keep watching the next thing.

People were complaining years before then. I was one of them, particularly during season 5. But the ratings kept going up. The spectacle of Hardhome evidently made up for the bad writing in the minds of (relative) normies.

22 hours ago, Annara Snow said:

But maybe  try to go out of your bubble sometimes and see how actual people felt about it? It's impossible to go anywhere online where people talk about TV and not see people talk about how horrible the finale was.

Quote

I'm only mentioning all this because of the possibility that you have been living in a cave outside of the society for the last two years, avoiding social media and getting your only info about anything from the fans of season 8 who hang out on this forum and WatchersontheWall or wherever, so you managed to miss the public's reaction to the GoT season 8, unlike the majority of world's population.

You going places and seeing things is anecdotal evidence, which would itself be particularly vulnerable to a filter bubble effect. Whereas data on ratings, Blu-Ray sales, etc is objective and not skewed by such effects.

6 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

They live in terror of Benioff and Weiss

You've got a better deadpan than David Benioff. Very funny. I also liked your earlier bit on Battle of the Bastards about how Miguel Sapochnik hates the showrunners, prior to him returning for The Long Night.

6 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

....Watchers on the Wall are quislings

What's the Nazi occupation of Norway in this analogy?

 

I don't have high hopes for a Blackfyre Rebellions series. Those rebellions seem narratively thinner than Roberts', and I have no reason to think lots of original writing will transform them into anything comparable to the war of five kings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...