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Cost of a valyrian steel sword


Mrstrategy

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The one selling it puts the price and the buyer either takes it or leaves it. House Targaryen, House Stark or House Lannister would likely sell their swords at a higher price than that of house Mormont or House Corbray. 

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3 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

The one selling it puts the price and the buyer either takes it or leaves it. House Targaryen, House Stark or House Lannister would likely sell their swords at a higher price than that of house Mormont or House Corbray. 

Ah, that doesn't hold as House Lannister offered massive amounts after the loss of Brightroar, for centuries, and there were no takers... none.  

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The sword Brightroar came into the possession of the Lannister kings in the century before the Doom, and it is said that the weight of gold they paid for it would have been enough to raise an army.    TWOIAF The Westerlands 

Valyrian steel blades were scarce and costly,          ASOS Tyrion V

Thrice at least Lord Tywin had offered to buy Valyrian longswords from impoverished lesser houses, but his advances had always been firmly rebuffed. The little lordlings would gladly part with their daughters should a Lannister come asking, but they cherished their old family swords.  ASOS Tyrion V

Based upon Damascus Steel, Valyrian Steel can no longer be made, only reworked as the process was lost in the Doom of Valyria.  That fact punctuates Tyrion's comments about their desirability.   While returning a famous sword to a noble house may have been an honorable thing to do, we have more instances of the swords being stolen by other noble houses in the cases of Ice and Orphan-Maker.  Both thieves were very powerful men who had no problem simply claiming the swords for their own without shame or thought of repercussion.  That action alone speaks to me of the value of VS. 

There has been relative calm in Westeros since Aegon's conquest.   We only hear rumor of VS pieces like the Hightower's Vigilance and the Celtigar treasures.  Many of the named VS swords haven't been seen since the Dance of Dragons, nearly 150 years back.  Maester Thurgood's Inventories still lists Orphan-Maker as Bold Jon Roxton's sword while we know Unwin Peake took it upon Bold Jon's death as a fact of history.   Makes me wonder how old the Inventories really are and where the missing VS swords really are.   

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5 hours ago, aeverett said:

Ah, that doesn't hold as House Lannister offered massive amounts after the loss of Brightroar, for centuries, and there were no takers... none.  

Yes, meaning the seller didn't think the gold was sufficient, while the attempted buyer did.

To convince someone of giving up something so valuable you need to give them something of more value, Lyn Corbray could maybe be happier with a nice piece of land in the Westerlands, while that won't convince any Targ or Stark. Think about it, the richer someone is, the more money you need to convince them of anything, that's why poor people are payed close to nothing for jobs no one wants. If those jobs payed better, people with more money would be interested in them.

 

Like @Curled Finger quoted above:

Quote

Thrice at least Lord Tywin had offered to buy Valyrian longswords from impoverished lesser houses, but his advances had always been firmly rebuffed.

Tywin tried to buy swords from impoverished Houses, cause he knew he didn't have enough money to convince rich houses, even if he was richer than them. Which means that the selling house puts the price.

 

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1 minute ago, CamiloRP said:

Yes, meaning the seller didn't think the gold was sufficient, while the attempted buyer did.

To convince someone of giving up something so valuable you need to give them something of more value, Lyn Corbray could maybe be happier with a nice piece of land in the Westerlands, while that won't convince any Targ or Stark. Think about it, the richer someone is, the more money you need to convince them of anything, that's why poor people are payed close to nothing for jobs no one wants. If those jobs payed better, people with more money would be interested in them.

 

Like @Curled Finger quoted above:

Tywin tried to buy swords from impoverished Houses, cause he knew he didn't have enough money to convince rich houses, even if he was richer than them. Which means that the selling house puts the price.

 

While I like the connection to a possible attempted purchase of Lady Forlorn I wonder if there isn't something on the side of the impoverished house we may be overlooking.   You mentioned Lyn Corbray may have been interested in land, which makes a lot of sense.   However, we see Lord Lionel marry into great wealth and Lyn sink deeper into dissatisfaction.  Still he does not leave his house.   We are told Lyn Corbray is a man of several vices.   This alone would lend itself to a disposition to take Tywin up on an offer.  But it doesn't.  This whispers 2 things to me:

1.  The sword is somehow integrally tied to the possessing house

or

2.  People in Westeros know of the curse on Lannister gold.

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5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

While I like the connection to a possible attempted purchase of Lady Forlorn I wonder if there isn't something on the side of the impoverished house we may be overlooking.   You mentioned Lyn Corbray may have been interested in land, which makes a lot of sense.   However, we see Lord Lionel marry into great wealth and Lyn sink deeper into dissatisfaction.  Still he does not leave his house.   We are told Lyn Corbray is a man of several vices.   This alone would lend itself to a disposition to take Tywin up on an offer.  But it doesn't.  This whispers 2 things to me:

1.  The sword is somehow integrally tied to the possessing house

or

2.  People in Westeros know of the curse on Lannister gold.

Oh, it was just an example, I wasn't claiming Tywin tried to buy Lady Forlorn, tho it's really likely.

I think maybe he isn't able to sell it because it's technically something that belongs to the lord, but he just uses it because he's the better fighter, maybe?

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5 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Oh, it was just an example, I wasn't claiming Tywin tried to buy Lady Forlorn, tho it's really likely.

I think maybe he isn't able to sell it because it's technically something that belongs to the lord, but he just uses it because he's the better fighter, maybe?

Lyn owns Lady Forlorn.  He was awarded the sword when he took it from his father's body on the battle field and proved his prowess.  Given Lyn's well known lack of funds and delight in darker amusements I think it's highly likely that Tywin approached him in some way.  Tywin really wanted a VS sword.  It is the other 2 of the 3 impoverished houses I wonder far more about.  Though I do wonder if this isn't smoke and mirrors covering up or leading to the fact that a 2nd son and non-heir is the natural wielder of the sword.  It smacks of the non-traditional such as in the cases of Visenia or Bloodraven or Jon even.   Sorry, I've been trying to tease it out for a couple of years and that is about as far as I get with it.  

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20 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Longclaw is a sword that Tywin might have tried to purchase. If Jorah carried it into battle during the Greyjoy Rebellion, then Tywin might have tried to purchase it at Lannisport during the tourney.

We looked at the text and though there is no way to really pinpoint House Mormont for an approach or not, the family and lands are called "modest".  Ha!  Bet that went over like a lead balloon if he tried.  I thought House Drumm and discounted them because they are of the priestly Islands and while I doubt they are impoverished I would think Red Rain would have been the sword he had his eye on.  If it belonged to House Reyne that would eat at an ego like Tywin's.  Genocide be damned.  I think Corbray is a sure thing here.  Since F&B was published I've been looking at houses in Gull Town and of course House Peake, who we have no real current information on or even if they retained possession of Orphan-Maker.  The only house specifically described as impoverished is House Westerling and we know nothing about their owning a sword.  @Seams found pretty clear evidence for the veritable destitution of House Peyne, again no clue as to a sword there either, though quite a big deal is made of Illyn's new super fancy sword post beheading Ned.  It will be great to finally find out which three houses were approached and got to thumb their noses at the Great Tywin Lannister.  

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The selling and buying of a prized family treasure is not a simple transaction based on the value of the metal.  Family pride will be involved.  Jorah, through all of his financial difficulties, did not sell the family sword.  The Lannisters offered substantial sums and not one of the families accepted the offer.  Those swords are a priceless treasure to these fighting families. 

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30 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Since F&B was published I've been looking at houses in Gull Town and of course House Peake, who we have no real current information on or even if they retained possession of Orphan-Maker. 

What's interesting about House Peake and them possibly having retained Orphan-Maker is that Titus Peake is married to a Lannister, Margot. It could be completely meaningless, but I always found the match interesting.

But Tywin got two Valyrian swords for the price of one because he's grasping. If he had been the one who arrived at the ToJ, he would have stolen Dawn, renamed it Daybreak or Sunrise and claimed it was forged from the bowels of Casterly Rock.

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23 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

What's interesting about House Peake and them possibly having retained Orphan-Maker is that Titus Peake is married to a Lannister, Margot. It could be completely meaningless, but I always found the match interesting.

But Tywin got two Valyrian swords for the price of one because he's grasping. If he had been the one who arrived at the ToJ, he would have stolen Dawn, renamed it Daybreak or Sunrise and claimed it was forged from the bowels of Casterly Rock.

Now you're talking cool connections again.  That little bit about the tie in is very interesting and adds a whole new spice to the possibility that House Peake still has Orphan-Maker.  I was just thinking that it would be fun to turn the idea about House Spicer/Westerling over a little bit in the light of their key role in bringing about the demise of Robb's war machine.  Not as solid as a marriage, but soon there will be marriages and certainly Tywin at least knew Sybell as a fellow grasper.   Yep, spicy.   Ah those swords are so many mysteries.    Love to hear any other sweet gems you've got tossing about.

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15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

  @Seams found pretty clear evidence for the veritable destitution of House Peyne

Thanks for the shout out. I vaguely remember this discussion. Do you have a link? I've used the search function and can't seem to find it.

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10 minutes ago, Seams said:

Thanks for the shout out. I vaguely remember this discussion. Do you have a link? I've used the search function and can't seem to find it.

Actually I think it was a private discussion that went public.   No doubt one of the old VS topics.   

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3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Actually I think it was a private discussion that went public.   No doubt one of the old VS topics.   

I think I found the link. We were mining the text using the A Search of Ice and Fire site, looking for impoverished houses. You suggested this approach and I was just acting on your suggestion.

 

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1 hour ago, Seams said:

I think I found the link. We were mining the text using the A Search of Ice and Fire site, looking for impoverished houses. You suggested this approach and I was just acting on your suggestion.

 

Oh my, I haven't seen that in years!  What silly fun we've had here.  You are too modest for even then when you were a new poster there was no doubt about your very interesting, often illuminating, way of both identifying and connecting ideas.  It was my search!  I know how simple it was so it took a student of words to really plumb the text for all you pulled from this small thing.  You provided a much larger lens than a simple unique word allowed me to view things a little differently.   So begin conversations and ideas and imaginations and lessons.   As I've said a million times before and will no doubt say a million more, thank you, Seams.  

That's so funny.  I've always used the word defense with the swords.  Sigh.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/23/2021 at 8:30 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

But Tywin got two Valyrian swords for the price of one because he's grasping. If he had been the one who arrived at the ToJ, he would have stolen Dawn, renamed it Daybreak or Sunrise and claimed it was forged from the bowels of Casterly Rock.

I don't believe he split Ice in two because he was grasping or shady.  He took Ice because he believed Ned Stark a traitor and his grandson the rightful king.   Traitors have their stuff confiscated by the crown and Tywin was the Hand of the King, so dispensing of those acquisitions is part of his job and his prerogative.  From his point  of view, House Stark legally forfeited the sword when Ned committed treason.  It wasn't about greed.  He didn't fight the war for a sword or cover up Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper's origins like a sneak.   Tywin is too arrogant to behave that way.   This is the man who had a song written and promoted all over Westeros when he annihilated two entire houses, along with their servants and smallfolk who hid with them; he likes to brag about his victories.   Yes, he wanted a Valyrian steel sword for his house, but he wouldn't risk the reputation of that house by stealing one without a reasonable justification.   Tywin's ego is far too large for that kind of cartoon villain behavior.

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