Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 So shoutout to reddit for first bringing it up, but when you think about it, Dany's and Irri's scene on the boat is quite disturbing. I'd say it's for two reasons. - First, the really tame almost non existent thing, Drogon's and Dany's connection, with Dany being confused as to who is who. That in of itself is not really bothersome, actually seems pretty similar to the connection the Staks have to the direwolves,, especially at night, only a lot smaller, yet keep in mind, this is a connection to WMD's, so I dunno. Personally, I'm not really bothered, but I could see why some could be given the possible long term implications. Anyways, on to the meat of this idea - Second, and far more disturbing, Irri's weird, not really sure it's there, consent. From the whole feel of the chapter, and how Irri reacts, well she basically acts like a slave doing her duty to the master. There is some consent, but then there's also Dany being her boss/leader/master/whatever so it's weird. And while we can attribute it all to Irri not having shaken off all her habits/reflexes/whatever from when she was a slave, Dany being okay with it, and summoning her later on in Meereen for the same purpose is pretty weird, not gonna lie. Personally I'd put it right up there with Cersei and Taena in the "where the fuck even is this on the consent scale?" category. So I dunno I was pretty grossed out. How about you? One thing is for sure though, there isn't a single sex scene by GRRM that isn't in some way disturbing or awkward. Also, guys, pretty please, keep it civil and on topic. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Even in Westeros and Braavos, plenty of people engage in sexual activity with servants and prostitutes. And, in societies where “real” sex involves a man, I doubt if either one attaches much significance to it. Irri initiated it, and there’s no evidence of coercion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, SeanF said: Irri initiated it, and there’s no evidence of coercion. Yeah, I'm not saying there was coercion, but you can't really say it was fully consensual either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 45 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: you can't really say it was fully consensual either. "I am handmaid to the Mother of Dragons," the girl said. "It is great honor to please my khaleesi." She just wants her queen happy, like Darrio. Its the Jorahs and Quentyns of this world that not only want her happy, but also a dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Its the Jorahs and Quentyns of this world that not only want her happy, but also a dragon I mean, you can compare everything short of actual rape to Jorah and the old pervert would still come out worse As for Quentyn, I'm not sure. He seems to just want to fulfill his duty and make his father proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay21 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said: As for Quentyn, I'm not sure. He seems to just want to fulfill his duty and make his father proud. Doesn't Irri just want to perform her duty and make her queen happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 Just now, Jay21 said: Doesn't Irri just want to perform her duty and make her queen happy? I mean, yeah, the fucked up thing is that she seems sexual service as 'duty' and that Dany goes along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Dany feels guilty about it because she knows deep down Irri is doing what sex slaves do. Dany says her kisses tasted of duty - the implication is, Irri is doing it because she feels she has to. Irri was enslaved and her purpose from the beginning was "to please her khaleesi." Learn how to see through the courtesies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Dany feels guilty about it because she knows deep down Irri is doing what sex slaves do. Dany says her kisses tasted of duty Does she. I don't recall, though tbf, Dany never had the most riveting or memorable POV, so I don't recall if she ever did. I do recall that at one point in Meereen she summons her again for the same purpose however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Does she. I don't recall, though tbf, Dany never had the most riveting or memorable POV, so I don't recall if she ever did. I do recall that at one point in Meereen she summons her again for the same purpose however "Irri slept soundly beside her, her lips slightly parted, one dark brown nipple peeping out above the sleeping silks. For a moment Dany was tempted, but it was Drogo she wanted, or perhaps Daario. Not Irri. The maid was sweet and skillful, but all her kisses tasted of duty." - ASOS, IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said: "Irri slept soundly beside her, her lips slightly parted, one dark brown nipple peeping out above the sleeping silks. For a moment Dany was tempted, but it was Drogo she wanted, or perhaps Daario. Not Irri. The maid was sweet and skillful, but all her kisses tasted of duty." - ASOS, IV I don't read that as guilt, particularly in the context. More like Dany not being satisfied by the services performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I don't read that as guilt, particularly in the context. More like Dany not being satisfied by the services performed. The guilt is mentioned in the Irri wiki. I think it's referring to this passage: Quote Dany stepped away from her. "No. Irri, you do not need to do that. What happened that night, when you woke . . . you're no bed slave, I freed you, remember? You . . ." "I am handmaid to the Mother of Dragons," the girl said. "It is great honor to please my khaleesi." "I don't want that," she insisted. "I don't." She turned away sharply. - ASOS, II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: The guilt is mentioned in the Irri wiki. I think it's referring to this passage: Quote Dany stepped away from her. "No. Irri, you do not need to do that. What happened that night, when you woke . . . you're no bed slave, I freed you, remember? You . . ." "I am handmaid to the Mother of Dragons," the girl said. "It is great honor to please my khaleesi." "I don't want that," she insisted. "I don't." She turned away sharply. - ASOS, II Ah thanks! Well, this I think makes her summoning Irri again later that much more interesting. I think it's another sign of her development though ASOS and ADWD, still wanting a worlds without slavery, but one where she is the ruler, that being just as important a condition, and not just a means to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean, you can compare everything short of actual rape to Jorah and the old pervert would still come out worse I never understood the hate. Hes not that old lol 15 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: As for Quentyn, I'm not sure. He seems to just want to fulfill his duty and make his father proud. I think he loved the concept of Dany, which entails making his father proud or at the very least, you know, seeing him. But Dany is lovable, shes regal, smart, sassy... And dumb hot 15 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: I mean, yeah, the fucked up thing is that she seems sexual service as 'duty' and that Dany goes along with it. Its a tricky subject. How much should these povs trust the ho? . She bent over to give him one last kiss, upon the brow. "My giant of Lannister. I love you so." 17 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Irri was enslaved and her purpose from the beginning was "to please her khaleesi." Learn how to see through the courtesies. But Irri is no longer a slave 3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: The guilt is mentioned in the Irri wiki. I think it's referring to this passage: Yea but wiki can be (is often) wrong. Dany felt guilt about wanting to be sexually active and a widow. She was mostly confused on how ugly ass, and old cant forget old, Jorah gets her juices flowin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: . I do recall that at one point in Meereen she summons her again for the same purpose however Citation please. I thought she thought of it but decided not to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Citation please. I thought she thought of it but decided not to 20 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said: "Irri slept soundly beside her, her lips slightly parted, one dark brown nipple peeping out above the sleeping silks. For a moment Dany was tempted, but it was Drogo she wanted, or perhaps Daario. Not Irri. The maid was sweet and skillful, but all her kisses tasted of duty." - ASOS, IV Though I'm pretty sure RoRL is mistake and it's ADWD not ASOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Though I'm pretty sure RoRL is mistake and it's ADWD not ASOS Nah thats Swords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: But Irri is no longer a slave Jhiqui thinks Dany still has slaves. She calls Missandei her slave. Think about that... 5 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Yea but wiki can be (is often) wrong. Well put in a request to change it, and ask them to ignore the quote I gave in support. 4 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Citation please. I thought she thought of it but decided not to "That night she could not sleep but turned and twisted restlessly in her bed. She even went so far as to summon Irri, hoping her caresses might help ease her way to rest, but after a short while she pushed the Dothraki girl away. Irri was sweet and soft and willing, but she was not Daario." - ADWD, Daenerys IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: 6 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Though I'm pretty sure RoRL is mistake and it's ADWD not ASOS Nah thats Swords No, it's definitely ADWD given Daario is mentioned and he is barely introduced in Dany IV of ASOS and she doesn't begin to fantasize about the STD carrying peacock until way later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Yeah, I'm not saying there was coercion, but you can't really say it was fully consensual either. If one is arguing that all forms of sexual activity between people of differing social status amount to rape, then it’s problematic. But, that’s not the view of any civilised legal system. There’s nothing here that would trouble a 21st century English court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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