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The Lord of the Crossing

Dareon was a victim of Arya's brand of "justice"

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3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That did not come out the way you intended it to.

But other than that yeah, she's in a dark place, but she's not "insane"

Oh shit.

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Arya has some amount of PTSD. But she is not insane, and rewriting the text to claim that she is is a pretty bad faith argument to make. Arya didn't just instantly join the HoBaW upon entering Bravos. It was pretty much her last resort. As late as Feast, even when she began her training, she initially hoped the black brothers she encountered would take her back to Westeros, because that is what she most desperately wants. It was when Dareon bragged about deserting the Nights Watch that she killed him. So you can argue that this act was done in anger, or out of a sense of justice towards a NW deserter. That doesn't make what Arya did right, but it is a straightforward motive for killing Dareon. Arya being an insane sadist who loves killing is a show creation, not George's.

Edited by Nathan Stark

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9 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Arya has some amount of PTSD. But she is not insane, and rewriting the text to claim that she is a pretty bad faith argument to make. Arya didn't just instantly join the HoBaW upon entering Bravos. It was pretty much her last resort. As late as Feast, even when she began her training, she initially hoped the black brothers she encountered would take her back to Westeros, because that is what she most desperately wants. It was when Dareon bragged about deserting the Nights Watch that she killed him. So you can argue that this act was done in anger, or out of a sense of justice towards a NW deserter. That doesn't make what Arya did right, but it is a straightforward motive for killing Dareon. Arya being an insane sadist who loves killing is a show creation, not George's.

In this, as in so many instances, the show has much to answer for.  It’s hard to dislodge mental images, such as Arya seemingly receiving orgasm as she watches Walder  Frey bleed to death.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

In this, as in so many instances, the show has much to answer for.  It’s hard to dislodge mental images, such as Arya seemingly receiving orgasm as she watches Walder  Frey bleed to death.

What about that scene made anyone think Orgasm?  Like I don't remember that and yes some people have trouble not mixing up the two separate stories.

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On 1/31/2021 at 5:51 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dareon is not the most mature man to ever wear the black.  But we can all agree that he was twice the victim of injustice.  The first came from Lord Rowan and his daughter at Goldengrove.  And the second injustice came from Arya Stark.  Arya Stark murdered Dareon in Braavos.  Arya's thirst for blood and revenge is not justice. 

It's just the beginning.  The Ghost of HH saw a very disturbing future for Arya.  GoHH was shaken because Arya is the representation of the macabre.  Her soul will get uglier as the arc continues because revenge is self-destructive. 

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3 hours ago, Darksnider05 said:

What about that scene made anyone think Orgasm?  Like I don't remember that and yes some people have trouble not mixing up the two separate stories.

The fluttering of her eyes, and the look of pure ecstasy on her face.

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3 hours ago, SeanF said:

The fluttering of her eyes, and the look of pure ecstasy on her face.

Dumb and Dumber kidna forgot Arya is not a sadist and shouldn't be turned on by suffering.

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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To be fair, normal 11-year-olds do not go around killing people, especially ones not a threat.  Not even in Westeros.  She clearly has mental issues, but I have a hard time seeing her as insane.  She feels no compulsions, nor is she detached from reality.  She is definitely not psychopathic (if anything, she has too much empathy, especially for victims, whose wrongs she seeks to avenge) or sadistic. 

I see her as more of a troubled child, traumatized and desensitized by the experiences of war.  Her association with the Faceless Men is not helping her at this point.  While she is disconcertingly comfortable with violence and killing, she is also perfectly capable of stopping at any time.  I expect (hope?) she does in the not too distant future, expect perhaps if it's actually necessary.

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10 hours ago, Nevets said:

To be fair, normal 11-year-olds do not go around killing people, especially ones not a threat.  Not even in Westeros.  She clearly has mental issues, but I have a hard time seeing her as insane.  She feels no compulsions, nor is she detached from reality.  She is definitely not psychopathic (if anything, she has too much empathy, especially for victims, whose wrongs she seeks to avenge) or sadistic. 

I see her as more of a troubled child, traumatized and desensitized by the experiences of war.  Her association with the Faceless Men is not helping her at this point.  While she is disconcertingly comfortable with violence and killing, she is also perfectly capable of stopping at any time.  I expect (hope?) she does in the not too distant future, expect perhaps if it's actually necessary.

Psychopathy is a spectrum. And childhood trauma can actually push you in that direction - there are also genetic factors to consider, but traumatic experiences as well.

Arya doesn't have sadistic fantasies, doesn't have fantasies to torture people, etc. - but that's not necessary to be a psychopath - or score very high on the psychopathy checklist.

She definitely is in no way 'insane' but she certainly has considerable mental issues.

I'm not that sure Arya has that much empathy, all things considered. Does she avenge herself or the victims of Gregor and his gang when killing the likes of Raff and the Tickler? We don't really know, since I do not recall her thinking much - or at all - about Lommy Greenhands, say, or any of the people/faces she saw tortured and murdered by the Tickler. She recalls what they did, and she wants to punish them for that, but she never really know the victims of those crimes.

And to be sure - her priorities are very strange. One of her first kills is one of the most problematic - Weese, back at Harrenhal. The guy was an abusive ass, but he wasn't particularly cruel. Yet she had Jaqen murder the man ... and not just to test whether Jaqen can do what he promised, but as the second name she gives him. She knows perfectly well what's going to happen to Weese.

If you think about this for a moment then Arya turns to murder there as a means to resolve a pretty minor problem. That is very disturbing, especially since it takes place before the Red Wedding. I mean, imagine there being an abusive cook or blacksmith in Winterfell ... and his young apprentice murdering him. That would be a heinous crime ... and Arya is sort of guilty of that. Weese didn't deserve to be murdered.

Also, while she sort of bonds with her friends - she never fully trusts them. Gendry figures out that she is a girl, she doesn't tell him. And later she has to be outed as Arya Stark, she doesn't tell him or Hot Pie.

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On 2/12/2021 at 1:31 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

It is a fact.  Arya is insane.  
 

What you’re asking for, just to prolong the discussion and hassle Arya’s critics, is a direct statement from the author, “Arya Stark is insane.” Its not going to appear inside the books.  You don’t need a direct statement to tell you that Ramsay is a bad man. His behavior shows it.  It’s the same for Arya being crazy.  Her actions says she is.

:agree:

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On 2/8/2021 at 11:08 PM, Rondo said:

The proof have been there all along.  You are just refusing to see it.  A list of people to kill.  Signing up in the cult of killers.  Pretending to be a hooker and luring a man to her chambers to kill him.  Coldly poisoning an old man who was not a threat to her.  All those are proof that Arya is mentally and emotionally damaged.  Her fans can dream up all kinds of excuses for her unusually violent behavior but there is no doubt that Arya Stark is insane.

Arya is indeed nuts.  She's a psychopathic girl. 

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11 hours ago, Nevets said:

To be fair, normal 11-year-olds do not go around killing people, especially ones not a threat.  Not even in Westeros.  She clearly has mental issues, but I have a hard time seeing her as insane.  She feels no compulsions, nor is she detached from reality.  She is definitely not psychopathic (if anything, she has too much empathy, especially for victims, whose wrongs she seeks to avenge) or sadistic. 

I see her as more of a troubled child, traumatized and desensitized by the experiences of war.  Her association with the Faceless Men is not helping her at this point.  While she is disconcertingly comfortable with violence and killing, she is also perfectly capable of stopping at any time.  I expect (hope?) she does in the not too distant future, expect perhaps if it's actually necessary.

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

 

 

I think I'll go with the context of him joking around after saying he's an incredibly hot girl who rides Dragons and Dwarf or a psychotic ten year old while laughing is a bit much for you.  If you can read all of the chapters of these characters and believe they are only one thing I think maybe there's no point of discussing anything with you.  

Arya spends to much time wool gathering about what she do for her to be a psychopath that whole build up to the insurance man should of explained that to you.  Or her caring about innocent people so much that she catches a beating till she bleeds over it.

 

Also there is a multi quote button you need to start using it triple/double posting is bad form on any forum.

Edited by Darksnider05

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22 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

:)

Proven.  Arya is mentally sick. 

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3 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

:)

Proven.  Arya is mentally sick. 

 

Still waiting for any of you to give actual text based reasons to think that, otherwise, yeah, you are just claiming things with no reason.

 

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3 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

 

 

Still waiting for any of you to give actual text based reasons to think that, otherwise, yeah, you are just claiming things with no reason.

 

You'll be waiting for a very, very long time. They've got nothing but videos taken out of context. Nothing but, weak, bad faith claims all around.

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6 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

That settled it.  Arya Stark is a pscyho.   It's actually clear from the books. 

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39 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

That settled it.  Arya Stark is a pscyho.

First off look at the whole video and don't take things out of context.

Second off, ever heard of Death of the Author? I don't care if GRRM thinks Arya is an octopus, what matters is what's on the page.

40 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

It's actually clear from the books. 

Where???????? You keep saying that like you're a broken record, but where is the actual proof. Just, please, using the books, PROVE IT!!!

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14 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

I've always considered Arya howling mad.  No need for this confirmation from GRRM.  All one need do is read the story and it is evident.  

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