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The Lord of the Crossing

Dareon was a victim of Arya's brand of "justice"

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4 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

You and other haters throw shade on characters that Martin definitely wrote as sympathetic and missing out big points of the books.

Heck, not even sympathetic. Like I'm not sure I like Arya, and there are a few (very rare) moment when I can't even sympathize with her, but Jesus, the view of her is so simplistic. Like if they don't like Dany or Arya, fair enough by me, but so many people seem to look at these complex, mostly good character and see cartoon villains.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Likewise, I like all of Arya, Daenerys, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Jaime, et. and hope they pull through (but suspect not all will). I can't say I like Tyrion, but he is a compelling character.

I also hope all of them will make it through.Arya,Sansa and specially Bran,Jon and Daenerys are very important to the story.Wanting them to fail is just wanting the story to be really sour.For example,I saw many almost wishing Dany to fail and become "mad" but I'm not sure they tought much about the consecuences if she will go down that way.

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4 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Heck, not even sympathetic. Like I'm not sure I like Arya, and there are a few (very rare) moment when I can't even sympathize with her, but Jesus, the view of her is so simplistic. Like if they don't like Dany or Arya, fair enough by me, but so many people seem to look at these complex, mostly good character and see cartoon villains.

If Martin had wrote them being like Saint Mary it would have been a very boring story.The same as it would have been if the only thing they are capable of is murder,murder,murder,stick them with the pointy end and dracarys.

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3 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

If Martin had wrote them being like Saint Mary it would have been a very boring story.The same as it would have been if the only thing they are capable of is murder,murder,murder,stick them with the pointy end and dracarys.

This reminds me of a Terrible Writing Advice episode about how intrigue villains should deal with problems

Minion outlived his usefulness? Murder.

Bystander witnessed the murdering of your minion? Murder.

Bystanders witnessing the murder of the other bystander who witnessed the murdering of your minion? Murder.

Right hand man pointing out that maybe you should ease up on the whole murder thing? Murder.

I think a lot of people imagine Arya or Dany, depending on personal choice, like this, only thing is, unlike Terrible Writing Advice they're not joking.

 

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15 minutes ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

If Martin had wrote them being like Saint Mary it would have been a very boring story.The same as it would have been if the only thing they are capable of is murder,murder,murder,stick them with the pointy end and dracarys.

Not just boring but implausible.  No one who wants to survive in a crapsack world can be morally pure.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

Not just boring but implausible.  No one who wants to survive in a crapsack world can be morally pure.

From now on,when I'll see a critique of the characters not being totally saints I will reply with : "Blame Martin for the shitty world he throw them into.":P

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4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Likewise, I like all of Arya, Daenerys, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Jaime, et. and hope they pull through (but suspect not all will). I can't say I like Tyrion, but he is a compelling character.

Hell, I like Cersei and love Theon, and they're both positively mad.

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3 hours ago, Dracul's Daughter said:

From now on,when I'll see a critique of the characters not being totally saints I will reply with : "Blame Martin for the shitty world he throw them into.":P

I don’t know what anyone could get out of these books if they expect the characters to share the values of 21st century metrosexuals.

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On 2/13/2021 at 7:39 PM, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

All true.  :)

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8 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

All true.  :)

You don't have any textual suport.

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On 2/14/2021 at 1:53 PM, HoodedCrow said:

Another fair assumption is that Arya has a high intelligence quotient, but Westeros doesn’t have cognitive testing. 

All of the main characters, except Jon and Sansa, have high IQ.  Daenerys, Bran, Tyrion, Samwell, and Jorah are smart people.  Arya is somewhat smart for her age and still be crazy.  Arya is a psycho and a villain.

Edited by Moiraine Sedai

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On 1/31/2021 at 5:51 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dareon is not the most mature man to ever wear the black.  But we can all agree that he was twice the victim of injustice.  The first came from Lord Rowan and his daughter at Goldengrove.  And the second injustice came from Arya Stark.  Arya Stark murdered Dareon in Braavos.  Arya's thirst for blood and revenge is not justice. 

That was a travesty of justice.  But what do you expect from a Stark.  Ned killed Gared, Robb killed Karstark, and Jon killed Slynt.  Okay, maybe Karstark sort of deserved it.  But Gared and Slynt did not.  Arya's morals are fickle and erratic.  If she even has working morals by this time.  She's got problems upstairs.  Teaching Arya the methods of murder is  like giving Michael Myers a bazooka.  The faceless men are building a monster. 

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2 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Arya is a psycho and a villain.

 

40 minutes ago, Bowen Marsh said:

Teaching Arya the methods of murder is  like giving Michael Myers a bazooka.  The faceless men are building a monster. 

 

You both know you are lying, you don't even believe that.

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24 minutes ago, CamiloRP said:

 

 

You both know you are lying, you don't even believe that.

I see we get Janos Slynt the Martyr, again.  Slynt actually ought to have been executed for ordering the murder of Mance Rayder, under flag of truce.

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2 hours ago, SeanF said:

I see we get Janos Slynt the Martyr, again.  Slynt actually ought to have been executed for ordering the murder of Mance Rayder, under flag of truce.

Not to mention his willingness to kill baby Barra and her mother. When Janos Slynt is your martyr, you should maybe rethink your life choices.

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3 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

That was a travesty of justice.  But what do you expect from a Stark.  Ned killed Gared, Robb killed Karstark, and Jon killed Slynt.  Okay, maybe Karstark sort of deserved it.  But Gared and Slynt did not.  Arya's morals are fickle and erratic.  If she even has working morals by this time.  She's got problems upstairs.  Teaching Arya the methods of murder is  like giving Michael Myers a bazooka.  The faceless men are building a monster.

Be sure to wipe the DNA off your keyboard after writing this.

Like ffs, Gared was a deserter, what did you expect Ned to do? After Janos and Dareon the martyrs, are we really having Gared the martyr?

Likewise Janos was in open mutiny, what did you want Jon to do?

And yet again you bring up the whole "Arya is insane" thing. Prove it!

And really, medically speaking, what does "she's got problems upstairs" even mean?

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2 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Not to mention his willingness to kill baby Barra and her mother. When Janos Slynt is your martyr, you should maybe rethink your life choices.

Your crimes are meant to wiped away on joining (well, not exactly, it is a suspended death sentence).  But, what Slynt ordered was criminal. More despicable still was forcing Jon to do his dirty work.

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38 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Your crimes are meant to wiped away on joining (well, not exactly, it is a suspended death sentence).  But, what Slynt ordered was criminal. More despicable still was forcing Jon to do his dirty work.

And Jon didn't execute him for that.

He did it for insubordination and mutiny. Also before you say he went overkill, take the British Navy and Army, nowadays, which in the 2006 Armed Forces Act defines mutiny as:

Quote

Attempting to overthrow or resist lawful authority

Disobeying lawful authority in order to subvert discipline

Conspiring to do the above

I think we can all agree Janos fits quite well into the first two. The second one especially I would say fits him like a glove.

The punishment nowadays for this is life in prison. Death would have been the punishment until the late 20th century. No, Jon did not exaggerate. He did what any military leader would have done with a mutinying subordinate. Anything besides death, and Jon would have looked weak and invited even more mutiny

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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Actually, Gared didn't really deserve to be killed. He is described as 'half-mad', and it seems clear he didn't return to CB because he wanted to desert, but that the fear of what he saw drove him mad with fear and had him try to get as far away from the Wall as possible.

You don't kill people if they are not (fully) responsible for their actions ... and even less so if they know rather crucial stuff about a threat to all of mankind.

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