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The Lord of the Crossing

Dareon was a victim of Arya's brand of "justice"

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8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

They did meet, and Arya helped him out with a few bravos. Arya knew Dareon was a deserter, that was why she killed him, not because of his clothing.

I need to reread the books, I don't remember this part of Arya helping him out, I remember he was thrown in the canal and Xhondo saving him from drowning.

I definitely need to read them again, it's been some time since my last read.

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2 hours ago, Shadow of Asshai said:

I need to reread the books, I don't remember this part of Arya helping him out, I remember he was thrown in the canal and Xhondo saving him from drowning.

I definitely need to read them again, it's been some time since my last read.

Not only did she recognize Sam was a brother of the Night's Watch, she saved from two Bravos who were threatening him. She asked him if he was going back to the Wall, offered him food and helped him find his deserting brother who was currently getting married at a whore house. 

 

 

Edited by MissM

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

So you think it would be okay for any lord to, say, arrest and execute Benjen Stark when he was visiting with Ned?

That wouldn't make any sense.

If Ned didn't contact CB after arresting Gared then his execution would make even less sense. But if he did contact CB he must know about Royce.

And, of course, Benjen must also know about Gared's death visiting with Ned shortly after the execution. Why the hell would either he or Mormont go look for Royce north of the Wall? Gared defected and fled south, so if Will and Royce were still alive wouldn't the most logical assumption be that they, too, defected and fled south of the Wall?

Benjen Stark could prove he was south of the Wall for legitimate reasons, not defecting. He no doubt had some sort of seal with him in case that very situation were to come up. So did Yoren, and so did Sam, Aemon and Dareon. Black Brothers apparently go south on legitimate Watch business quite often, so it would make sense for them to have some way of identifying their legitimate reasons for being south.

Its safe to say that Gared did not, and likely could not prove he was not a Nights Watch deserter. Ned doesn't need to contact CB to figure out if someone is a Nights Watch deserter. Again, you have to consider context. Gared is "half-mad" and desperate to get south. It doesn't require a lot of brainpower to determine if Gared is a deserter or not. If he wasn't, he could prove it. If he can't, the law says to execute him for a deserter. 

And Will and Royce weren't with Gared when he fled south. Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that if all three were still alive, they'd all be together? If that isn't the case, then the smart money says to look for them in the place they were last, namely, north of the Wall.

Your expectations of Ned communicating quickly and effeciently with the Wall in order to figure all this out are wildly unrealistic. This isn't 21st century Earth. It's a pre-industrial, feudal society. They don't have cellphones. There's no Twitter around. Their fastest form of communication is to have birds fly their letters. That takes time, and meanwhile, Ned has a job to do.

I agree that Gared was wrongfully executed, and that the law that condemns him to die is inhumane and bad. That still doesn't mean Ned is stupid for doing his own lordly duty as that law commands.

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On 2/13/2021 at 7:39 PM, Bowen 747 said:

George R. R. Martin said in an interview that Arya Stark is psychopathic murderer.  Pay careful attention around the 55 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

That settles the argument.  No amount of spinning from her fans will change that.  Arya Stark is crazy and suffers from a severe personality disorder. 

 

I've always thought of Arya this way.  A psycho.  Arya's sanity got lost somewhere between Kingslanding and the Riverlands.  She was already gone upon reaching the House of Black and White. 

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28 minutes ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I've always thought of Arya this way.  A psycho.  Arya's sanity got lost somewhere between Kingslanding and the Riverlands.  She was already gone upon reaching the House of Black and White. 

Any textual support?

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10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Benjen Stark could prove he was south of the Wall for legitimate reasons, not defecting. He no doubt had some sort of seal with him in case that very situation were to come up. So did Yoren, and so did Sam, Aemon and Dareon. Black Brothers apparently go south on legitimate Watch business quite often, so it would make sense for them to have some way of identifying their legitimate reasons for being south.

Last time I read AFfC Samwell Tarly wasn't suspected of being a deserter when sitting foot in the Oldtown harbor, nor was he ever asked to show his papers signed by the Lord Commander to the Hightower authorities. In the Citadel nobody asked him why he as a black brother was there, either.

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Its safe to say that Gared did not, and likely could not prove he was not a Nights Watch deserter. Ned doesn't need to contact CB to figure out if someone is a Nights Watch deserter. Again, you have to consider context. Gared is "half-mad" and desperate to get south. It doesn't require a lot of brainpower to determine if Gared is a deserter or not. If he wasn't, he could prove it. If he can't, the law says to execute him for a deserter.

That doesn't strike me as very likely since Yoren, too, also doesn't walk around with a piece of paper. He says he and his guys are bound for the Wall in ACoK, but he cannot prove that, either. Or can he?

Gared isn't arrested by Ned, personally, but by whoever holds the keep where the execution takes place. To our knowledge, Gared didn't hurt anyone, didn't commit any crime besides deserting, so the people arresting him must known him to be a deserter or they just laid hand on an innocent traveller.

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

And Will and Royce weren't with Gared when he fled south. Wouldn't the logical conclusion be that if all three were still alive, they'd all be together? If that isn't the case, then the smart money says to look for them in the place they were last, namely, north of the Wall.

The logical conclusion would be that, if Gared is a deserter, they all are deserters who split up after they decided to desert ... or that Gared killed the other two to cover his tracks. In both cases there would be no need for an expedition beyond the Wall to search for Waymar Royce which is the point of Benjen's ranging.

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

Your expectations of Ned communicating quickly and effeciently with the Wall in order to figure all this out are wildly unrealistic. This isn't 21st century Earth. It's a pre-industrial, feudal society. They don't have cellphones. There's no Twitter around. Their fastest form of communication is to have birds fly their letters. That takes time, and meanwhile, Ned has a job to do.

But Ned's job doesn't include to execute men who just may be deserters, right? And to be sure - Ned did send back Gared's head to the Wall, Mormont confirms that in Tyrion 3. And with Benjen being at Winterfell before his fateful ranging he, too, knows about Gared. Which means he actually shouldn't expect to find Royce north of the Wall.

Benjen's ranging only would make if Royce's entire party had disappeared and they had no reason to believe that all three of them might have fled south of the Wall. But they do have reason to believe this might be the case.

10 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

I agree that Gared was wrongfully executed, and that the law that condemns him to die is inhumane and bad. That still doesn't mean Ned is stupid for doing his own lordly duty as that law commands.

For it to be his duty there has to be confirmation that Gared was a deserter. And that he would only get by double-checking with CB. I mean, you must be aware that Gared could have been attacked by robbers south of the Wall, right? That whatever drove him half-mad could have happened in the North, on Ned's own soil. The man could have been on a mission in the south, he could have been a new wandering crow, etc. If Ned didn't check whether that was the case he would have murdered Gared.

And to be sure - when Jon deserts at the end of AGoT we learn how this goes. Jon rans away and plans to ditch his black clothes. Once he has done that, he will no longer be recognized as a black brother ... but Mormont will send out ravens and messengers branding him as a deserter and also giving people his name and physicial description. That's what would make him a deserter in the eyes of the world.

Since Gared apparently fled from north of the Wall to south of the Wall without CB ever realizing what he did, nobody would have branded him a deserter, meaning Ned and whoever arrested Gared would have to double-check with CB whether this guy truly was a deserter or not.

Else those people would invent/decide for themselves who deserted the NW and who didn't.

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On 2/17/2021 at 12:28 PM, Shadow of Asshai said:

I am not really fond of what Arya is becoming, I don't think she should have killed Dareon, even though he had deserted the Night's Watch. Don't get me wrong, he left Sam, Gilly, the baby and Maester Aemon to their luck, that was really messed up.

Now, he is young, he probably saw a chance to start over, since he knew the Night's Watch wouldn't send men to Essos to look for a deserter.

Arya's sense of justice is very misguided, she is basically driven by revenge, she is still Arya, she is not "No One" as she claims to be and that will cost her.

She killed Dareon because she recongized the black clothing of the Night's Watch, then again, what if he was sent there by the Night's Watch? (what was the case, although he had deserted). Arya just presumed he was a deserter and killed him.

The same could have happened to Sam if they met, she would recognize the colours of the Night's Watch and killed him and Sam is also on the same mission.

She could very well kill an innocent because she wants to kill people for any reason she can think of.

Arya would kill somebody, innocent or not.  She wants to learn the craft of murdering people and killed the old insurance agent to please the faceless people.  She has grown to like killing.  Rafford was not on Westeros' soil when she killed him.  She enjoyed killing that man. 

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24 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Rafford was not on Westeros' soil when she killed him.  She enjoyed killing that man.

Why the fuck does it matter where he was killed?

Also given what the piece of shit did, no shit she enjoyed it, I would have too given the circumstances.

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2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Rafford was not on Westeros' soil when she killed him.  She enjoyed killing that man. 

Why would anyone regret killing Raff, that's a public service.  It would feel great to know he's never going to be around to kill another innocent.

Edited by Darksnider05

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On 1/31/2021 at 5:51 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dareon is not the most mature man to ever wear the black.  But we can all agree that he was twice the victim of injustice.  The first came from Lord Rowan and his daughter at Goldengrove.  And the second injustice came from Arya Stark.  Arya Stark murdered Dareon in Braavos.  Arya's thirst for blood and revenge is not justice. 

Arya is one severely messed up girl.  George read a preview chapter from the next book.  It was an Arya point of view.  It gets even darker and more disturbing.  Arya has lost her mind. 

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Arya has issues.
 

The patient claims to leave her own consciousness and skin change into various animals. She is homicidally violent with others. Her diagnosis then, is dissociative psychosis with antisocial aggression. She resists gender normative, more appropriate clothing and activities. She denies identifying as a male, but is a transvestite. She has age appropriate, prepubescent, thought processes and is gifted with languages. She hides her familial data, thus is unreliable and deceptive. She claims to have saved men from burning building. Clearly, she has delusions and revenge fantasies. The patient has several alters, including Weasel, Cat, Nemerina, Stark, and Arly. Her motor skills are exceptionally well developed. The patient escaped through a duct and there is a missing person alert. 

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13 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Arya has issues.
 

The patient claims to leave her own consciousness and skin change into various animals. She is homicidally violent with others. Her diagnosis then, is dissociative psychosis with antisocial aggression. She resists gender normative, more appropriate clothing and activities. She denies identifying as a male, but is a transvestite. She has age appropriate, prepubescent, thought processes and is gifted with languages. She hides her familial data, thus is unreliable and deceptive. She claims to have saved men from burning building. Clearly, she has delusions and revenge fantasies. The patient has several alters, including Weasel, Cat, Nemerina, Stark, and Arly. Her motor skills are exceptionally well developed. The patient escaped through a duct and there is a missing person alert. 

Oh my god this is awful 

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32 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Yes, it’s awful. If it were a real report it would be longer, with more errors.

If you were being sarcastic I bought it completely

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Thank you! I was being technical, in a clinical voice. A modern psych report would sound like this. They would take all the magical, world specific things( that we know to be true) and pathologize it. So that means Robb, Jon, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, Lyanna, and any skin changer would be called psychotic. And probably dissociative. I used misguided education and training to write a psych report for a fictional character.

I even baked in mistakes, as there would be. I did not give her apparent age, though. This  ten year old female...referred by Dr Blah Blah.

I suffer from chronic cynicism with deliberate hopefulness, and a warped sense of humour. Also I’m bored to death. 

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