UK politics: Veni Vidi Vaccinati

[polishgenius]

17 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Wasnt he also the one who oversaw the phone hacking scandal?

When your people hack the phone of a missing girl who turns out to have been tortured and murdered, and your hacking lf her phone voicemail gave her family false hope she lived, the trebuchet is too fucking good for you.

His newspaper also did hack phones (of course!) but the Milly Dowler thing and the greater scandal in general was The News of the World.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

But saying 'i dont beleive her' should not be a sackable or 'forced out' situation no matter how many people complain. 

I just want to come back on this because it's important. I disagree completely. This kind of comment is, for people suffering mental health problems, extremely harmful. It creates a barrier for people who have suicidal thoughts but are scared to seek help because they think they'll be ridiculed or told that they are making it up. I've seen many such cases in both a personal and professional capacity. It is the same as going on TV and saying you don't believe dyslexia is real or saying that people with clinical depression just need to get out more. It's actively dangerous in health terms. And that makes it a sackable offence.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

23 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Wasnt he also the one who oversaw the phone hacking scandal?

When your people hack the phone of a missing girl who turns out to have been tortured and murdered, and your hacking lf her phone voicemail gave her family false hope she lived, the trebuchet is too fucking good for you.

Nah, that was more Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch. Quite a turn of events, that he ended up as being the less shitty son, who walked away from the family business.

 

29 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Successful is being used kind of loosely here. She has gotten consistent, but largely minor work. I don't know what she's made, and frankly don't care, but I doubt she was the one that came into this relationship with the larger net worth.

Yeah. But then again, maybe she would've found more lucrative roles after her break out role on Suits. But her net worth was definately lower than Harry's. But she was (and still is) undoubtedly hotter, which is, as we all know the true worth of a woman.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Problem is claiming mental health issues has become a get out of jail free card. No one dare question it. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Problem is claiming mental health issues has become a get out of jail free card. No one dare question it. 

Somebody counting his lucky stars?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Problem is claiming mental health issues has become a get out of jail free card. No one dare question it. 

This is rather ignorant. Mental health issues have been stigmatized for, well, ever really, and people are only starting to understand it better and be comfortable dealing with their own issues. To dismiss someone's claim about an issue they're dealing with because you don't like them is a world class jackass move. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

This is rather ignorant. Mental health issues have been stigmatized for, well, ever really, and people are only starting to understand it better and be comfortable dealing with their own issues. To dismiss someone's claim about an issue they're dealing with because you don't like them is a world class jackass move. 

This is not someone’s personal struggle, which deserves to be dealt with in privacy and with the required professional care. This is someone broadcasting it to Oprah, for the world to see, in a campaign to bring down the Royal family. There’s a lot more at stake here, so the claims deserve to be interrogated. And to do that, one has to at least be able to question it.

The idea that you could be prohibited from engaging with a psychologist or psychiatrist if you were seriously mentally ill doesn’t sound credible. All she had to do was tell Harry, who as many commentators have said, has connections with some of the highest profile medical professionals in this field, given his own work in this area.

So no, her claims are not immune to questioning.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Wasnt he also the one who oversaw the phone hacking scandal?

When your people hack the phone of a missing girl who turns out to have been tortured and murdered, and your hacking lf her phone voicemail gave her family false hope she lived, the trebuchet is too fucking good for you.

Morgan did start his career at the Sun/News of the World but he left for the Mirror years before the phone hacking scandal.

[Spockydog]

57 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The idea that you could be prohibited from engaging with a psychologist or psychiatrist if you were seriously mentally ill doesn’t sound credible.

It sounds entirely credible. The appalling, inhumane things this family has done to each other are pretty well documented, including when two of the Queen's first cousins got locked away in a mental institution whilst the family told the world they were dead.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

38 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This is not someone’s personal struggle, which deserves to be dealt with in privacy and with the required professional care. This is someone broadcasting it to Oprah, for the world to see, in a campaign to bring down the Royal family. There’s a lot more at stake here, so the claims deserve to be interrogated. And to do that, one has to at least be able to question it.

The idea that you could be prohibited from engaging with a psychologist or psychiatrist if you were seriously mentally ill doesn’t sound credible. All she had to do was tell Harry, who as many commentators have said, has connections with some of the highest profile medical professionals in this field, given his own work in this area.

So no, her claims are not immune to questioning.

It's much like sexual assaults, you don't have to automatically believe a person, but you should listen. And false claims are dwarfed by those that go unreported in both areas.

Not all people are the same. She's one of the most famous people in the world. Dealing with such a struggle in private would be more difficult to do than it would for you or I, and neither of us are being smeared by seemingly most of the press in one of the most powerful countries in the world. Regarding the second half, it's hard to say. Maybe prohibited wasn't the right word to use, but it does seem like the Royal Family is up their own asses about their perception in the country, so it's not unreasonable to wonder if it was frowned upon for her to seek help. We don't know. But the claims that she's just lying are more baseless than the notion that she's making this up.

And FYI, The Royal Family should be brought down. The entire construct is based around genetic superiority. Hey wait a minute, weren't they originally Germans??.....

[A Horse Named Stranger]

25 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And FYI, The Royal Family should be brought down. The entire construct is based around genetic superiority. Hey wait a minute, weren't they originally Germans??.....

Ah you finally came around? Part of me, now wants to run with that joke.

But from the remaining Northern Royal houses, there are quite a few with a German bloodline.

That cadet branch of House Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, who now go by House Windsor.

House Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg is sitting on the Danish throne, and also the Norwegian one.

The Dutch can be traced back.

Belgian Royal Family are also from House Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha.

It's basically the the Wrong Turn Franchise with posh folks instead of Hillbillies.

[john]

21 minutes ago, williamjm said:

Morgan did start his career at the Sun/News of the World but he left for the Mirror years before the phone hacking scandal.

I mean, the Mirror hacked phones too, though not as egregiously as the NoTW. Levenson basically called Morgan a liar after reviewing his evidence in the phone hacking inquiry.

Then there was the insider trading scandal. His two colleagues went to jail, he bought shares in the same company, concealed how many from the internal investigation and ... did not go to jail. The fact that he somehow built a career based on righteous indignation is staggering given his own record.

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Ah you finally came around? Part of me, now wants to run with that joke.

But from the remaining Northern Royal houses, there are quite a few with a German bloodline.

That cadet branch of House Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, who now go by House Windsor.

House Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg is sitting on the Danish throne, and also the Norwegian one.

The Dutch can be traced back.

Belgian Royal Family are also from House Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha.

It's basically the the Wrong Turn Franchise with posh folks instead of Hillbillies.

We should all be glad the Habsburgs are no longer around. Talk about the shallow end of the gene pool.

[Wall Flower]

I feel like Harry and Meghan must find it teeny bit galling to realise that if they'd only confessed publicly to being good friends with a convicted pedophile, they could have stepped back gracefully from royal duties while retaining all their titles and the support of the firm.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This is not someone’s personal struggle, which deserves to be dealt with in privacy and with the required professional care. This is someone broadcasting it to Oprah, for the world to see, in a campaign to bring down the Royal family. There’s a lot more at stake here, so the claims deserve to be interrogated. And to do that, one has to at least be able to question it.

The idea that you could be prohibited from engaging with a psychologist or psychiatrist if you were seriously mentally ill doesn’t sound credible. All she had to do was tell Harry, who as many commentators have said, has connections with some of the highest profile medical professionals in this field, given his own work in this area.

So no, her claims are not immune to questioning.

Certainly , if you make allegations against people you should expect to have to provide details.  Anyone can throw mud.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 hours ago, maarsen said:

We should all be glad the Habsburgs are no longer around. Talk about the shallow end of the gene pool.

Surprisingly, they have not gone extinct. And no sign of their jaw.

[BigFatCoward]

8 hours ago, mormont said:

I just want to come back on this because it's important. I disagree completely. This kind of comment is, for people suffering mental health problems, extremely harmful. It creates a barrier for people who have suicidal thoughts but are scared to seek help because they think they'll be ridiculed or told that they are making it up. I've seen many such cases in both a personal and professional capacity. It is the same as going on TV and saying you don't believe dyslexia is real or saying that people with clinical depression just need to get out more. It's actively dangerous in health terms. And that makes it a sackable offence.

Thats not what I understand that anybody is claiming though. He didnt say he didnt beleive she had MH issues, he said he didn't beleive she asked for help and was refused it. Not the same thing at all. 

"Who did you go to?" he said. "What did they say to you? I'm sorry, I don't believe a word she said,

And I find that barely credible as well. Someone else doesnt decide if you get medical help.

She has been described by many people as pushy at a minimum. The thought that someone said 'you cant have help' and she (and harry) meekly accepted it has as much credibility as her claim she didnt know who harry was. 

I'm about 90% on their side, but the claim that you cant question people and interrogate their accusations is utter horseshit. 

[Heartofice]

I’m sure she did suffer mental health issues and maybe even felt suicidal. That bit I don’t really doubt.

Its just that basically everything else they said came across as a half truth, exaggeration or outright lie. 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Thats not what I understand that anybody is claiming though. He didnt say he didnt beleive she had MH issues, he said he didn't beleive she asked for help and was refused it.

That is what Morgan later claimed he meant, but if that was what he meant, he expressed it very badly and in a way that can easily be understood as saying he didn't believe that she was suicidal. You quote it yourself: 'I don't believe a word she said'. That's an all-encompassing statement. If what he meant was 'I believe some of what she said but not other parts', saying 'I don't believe a word she said' is pretty much the opposite of that.

And not to drive the point home, but... Morgan is a journalist and broadcaster. It is his job to express himself clearly. If a person in his position fucks up the message to that degree, yeah, that's something for which he can and should be held accountable.

[DMC]

I don't know why it's not credible she was told not to seek help.  I don't care how many connections Harry has, the firm/institution/whatever the fuck you wanna call it pressuring her not to do so due to PR concerns is entirely plausible - even ignoring their past behavior.